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Post by Hoosier X on May 2, 2014 14:43:28 GMT -5
I bought The Essential Ant-Man when it was brand new because I wanted to read those stories! Of all the early Marvels, the Hank Pym series was easily the worst, but a lot of the time it was kind of awesome in many different ways and there's hardly an issue goes by without something seriously cool happening. I'm not entirely sure I can agree with this. It's been a number of year since I've read either The Essential Ant-Man or The Essential Human Torch, but I think Johnny Storm's feature in Strange Tales was pretty darn close to being as bad. I'll be reviewing both...so I guess we'll eventually see where I come down on this. Hoping to have Fantastic Four #3 up tonight. Oh, yeah, the Human Torch series in Strange Tales. That completely slipped my mind.
I think the Human Torch series probably WAS worse than Ant-Man. Nothing in Ant-Man stands out like that scene in Strange Tales #107 where Namor brags that he has the powers of all the creatures of the sea so he invokes the power of a puffer fish and blows up like a balloon and attacks Johnny in that ridiculous condition, looking kind of like that Flash cover where he weighs 1,000 pounds. The worst Namor appearance of the Silver Age.
On the strength of that (and the Beatles issue), the Human Torch in Strange Tales takes the prize. (Though I do like the first six issues and the weird story of the Human Torch's secret identity.)
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 2, 2014 15:08:54 GMT -5
Way,way back when I was buying back issues to complete my Marvel Collection I saved Tales to Astonish #27 for last.At that time it would sell for about $50-$75.Obviously other Marvels were much more expensive,but I thought those early Ant-mans were so piss poor and inconsequencial. But I was a sick completist and had to get it
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Post by Cei-U! on May 2, 2014 15:12:58 GMT -5
When I was 4 or 5 and still getting the hang of reading I thought Ant-Man was way cool. This has tended to make me more forgiving of the series despite recognizing its considerable flaws as an adult.
Cei-U!
I summon the Scarlet Beetle!
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Post by Hoosier X on May 2, 2014 15:36:50 GMT -5
When I was 4 or 5 and still getting the hang of reading I thought Ant-Man was way cool. This has tended to make me more forgiving of the series despite recognizing its considerable flaws as an adult. Cei-U! I summon the Scarlet Beetle! Ant-Man is way cool. Despite all the stupid stories and the dumb stuff and the massive FAIL involved in actually writing good material.
Ant-Man is for comics book readers who can look past the page at what should be on the page.
Did you ever read the Ant-Man stories in Marvel Feature at the very beginning of the Bronze Age? I only read one or two of them but I thought it looked like it had the potential for a good series. Love the Herb Trimpe art.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 2, 2014 16:05:46 GMT -5
Did you ever read the Ant-Man stories in Marvel Feature at the very beginning of the Bronze Age? I only read one or two of them but I thought it looked like it had the potential for a good series. Love the Herb Trimpe art.
Not only did I read them but I reacquired the whole run over the last couple of years. Loved the whole "The Incredible Shrinking Hank" vibe, plus I'm a big Trimpe fan. His page layouts are magnificent. Could've lived without the monster Wasp bit, though, but the glorious insanity of the Para-Man/Ree-Zee character kinda made up for it. Cei-U! I summon the forgotten classic! |
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Post by Hoosier X on May 2, 2014 16:17:55 GMT -5
Did you ever read the Ant-Man stories in Marvel Feature at the very beginning of the Bronze Age? I only read one or two of them but I thought it looked like it had the potential for a good series. Love the Herb Trimpe art.
Not only did I read them but I reacquired the whole run over the last couple of years. Loved the whole "The Incredible Shrinking Hank" vibe, plus I'm a big Trimpe fan. His page layouts are magnificent. Could've lived without the monster Wasp bit, though, but the glorious insanity of the Para-Man/Ree-Zee character kinda made up for it. The issue I remember had Trish Starr and Egghead. Was Trish a guest star for the whole series? And how often was Egghead the villain? |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 2, 2014 16:40:50 GMT -5
Ant-Man is way cool. Despite all the stupid stories and the dumb stuff and the massive FAIL involved in actually writing good material.
Ant-Man is for comics book readers who can look past the page at what should be on the page.
Did you ever read the Ant-Man stories in Marvel Feature at the very beginning of the Bronze Age? I only read one or two of them but I thought it looked like it had the potential for a good series. Love the Herb Trimpe art.
The Scarlet Beetle! The Scarlet Beetle is teh definition of cool. |
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Post by MWGallaher on May 2, 2014 17:16:45 GMT -5
I've got a great fondness for Ant-Man because of that Marvel Feature series (it's too bad the Essentials were smaller back when Ant-Man got his volume; at the later lengths, they could easily have accommodated that run and the Ross-Andru-drawn solo back-up that cropped up in Marvel's short-lived 25 cent plus-sized months). I'm eager to see the upcoming movie just because it's something I never would have dreamed could really happen. But I have to admit I'm still a little aggravated that Edgar Wright's demo film stole The Atom's act for Hank. Despite their similarities, The Atom's size- and weight-changing strategies were pretty much unique to that character. Hank's action sequences were, by contrast, mundane and unimaginative.
I like Hank Pym's character way more than Ray Palmer's, but Ray's technique was a lot more fun to watch, and this cinematic interpretation might end up feeling like thievery to me.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on May 3, 2014 5:06:56 GMT -5
Thoughts… I’m not really an “art” guy. I’ve never taken an art class. I know diddly about inking. Mostly I just know what I like. This is clearly not Kirby’s best work, even for this time period. I’ve read that his backgrounds in The Rawhide Kid that was running contemporaneously are much better. I can’t confirm that, but don’t disbelieve it. I will say that overall this was not nearly as strong as his work on Challengers of the Unknown a few years earlier. But it was dynamic and the design of the monsters was cool. I noticed this as well. Unfortunately it seems it would take a while for Kirby to find his niche here. Strange, I had seen panel work before Fantastic Four by him (only samples) and they seemed a lot better than what we were getting early on with Fantastic Four. I'm about 12 issues in on the initial run and sometimes there are things that are difficult to tolerate, but at the same time I'm in my late 20's. If this was 1961 I'm sure I'd be extremely amazed. I'm anxious to see how Kirby changes his layouts moving forward. By the way, I think my favorite issue so far from what I've read is Fantastic Four #5. At least that its the one I remember the most of. I believe it's Doctor Doom's first appearance. I won't ruin the details since you're going through the comics one by one, but I think it's the best of the bunch thus far. And that is with a few appearances by Namor mixed in. I think two or three within the first 12 or so. |
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Post by Hoosier X on May 3, 2014 9:48:20 GMT -5
Thoughts… I’m not really an “art” guy. I’ve never taken an art class. I know diddly about inking. Mostly I just know what I like. This is clearly not Kirby’s best work, even for this time period. I’ve read that his backgrounds in The Rawhide Kid that was running contemporaneously are much better. I can’t confirm that, but don’t disbelieve it. I will say that overall this was not nearly as strong as his work on Challengers of the Unknown a few years earlier. But it was dynamic and the design of the monsters was cool. I noticed this as well. Unfortunately it seems it would take a while for Kirby to find his niche here. Strange, I had seen panel work before Fantastic Four by him (only samples) and they seemed a lot better than what we were getting early on with Fantastic Four. I'm about 12 issues in on the initial run and sometimes there are things that are difficult to tolerate, but at the same time I'm in my late 20's. If this was 1961 I'm sure I'd be extremely amazed. I'm anxious to see how Kirby changes his layouts moving forward. By the way, I think my favorite issue so far from what I've read is Fantastic Four #5. At least that its the one I remember the most of. I believe it's Doctor Doom's first appearance. I won't ruin the details since you're going through the comics one by one, but I think it's the best of the bunch thus far. And that is with a few appearances by Namor mixed in. I think two or three within the first 12 or so. I like the early issues of Fantastic Four a lot but, despite the really good issues here and there, it takes it a while to really get going. I really like the George Roussos run from #21 to #27, but it's not until #36 that the multi-part stories begin and every storyline has a few issues to develop, and it really blossoms about #44.
(#23 is my favorite Dr. Doom appearance, by the way. Despite not really making a whole lot of sense.)
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Post by benday-dot on May 3, 2014 10:14:34 GMT -5
Not mentioned a lot when discussing the virtues of Trimpe art is his work found in the dark and forbidden pages of the Son of Satan book from Marvel Spotlight. Not only, Russ Heath aside, is this the best ever rendition of 'ole Satan's youngin' ever seen, but his layouts here are qyite spectacular as well. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 4, 2014 14:57:27 GMT -5
A few additional thoughts on FF 1 and 2.
The FF straddle lines between being different and old established tropes. This isn't the JLA. They aren't randomly together. They bicker...in fact they fight. This isn't the lovable Been Grimm we know. This is a very angry violent individual...almost as monstrous as his looks. At the same time, they're fighting the kinds of monsters Atlas was known for and aliens and criminals that aren't that much different. Lee and Kirby don't seem to have any idea what to do with Sue other than as damsel in distress.
But there is a freshness here.
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Post by Miss Fantastic on May 4, 2014 17:19:11 GMT -5
A few additional thoughts on FF 1 and 2. The FF straddle lines between being different and old established tropes. This isn't the JLA. They aren't randomly together. They bicker...in fact they fight. This isn't the lovable Been Grimm we know. This is a very angry violent individual...almost as monstrous as his looks. At the same time, they're fighting the kinds of monsters Atlas was known for and aliens and criminals that aren't that much different. Lee and Kirby don't seem to have any idea what to do with Sue other than as damsel in distress. But there is a freshness here. It actually never dawned on me until quite recently how rather A-Team-esque the Fantastic Four of their first ever two issues were, and especially in the second issue with their being on the run from the army/government. Call me nuts (at least not anymore so than I already am  ), but the campiness of the stories aside, part of me wishes they had kept the pseudo monster title/'fugitive 'monsters'/adventurers willing to explore and help' vibe right down to the civy clothes instead of the stereotypical superhero coat of paint the FF would receive in FF #3. Although there's no denying that giving the FF the more typical uniforms, headquarters, and even trademark vehicle and leaning the title in a more 'superhero' direction was certainly needed for better longevity's sake (afterall, look at what happened to the first ever Incredible Hulk series, another pseudo monster title in its own right), I like to call it all a coat of paint because underneath all that, FF was/still is really a lot more-so a 'science fiction/adventure, with romance, comedy, and drama thrown in for good measure' title at the end of the day, with the only superhero extent being the title characters happening to have superpowers...which is something I think has further confounded quite a few general comic fans through the years and especially recently, but that's a whole 'nother discussion. But anyways, y'know, if it was done right, I would so read a limited series focusing on the 'lost stories' of the FF's 'F-Team' period.  Although, I fear First Family will be the closest thing to that we'll ever see... |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 4, 2014 22:25:11 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #3
Written by Stan Lee
Pencils by Jack Kirby
Inks by Sol Brodsky
Cover:
Lotta spoilers on the cover. We see the FF’s new uniforms, the Fansti-car (flying bath-tub) and the Torch’s new look. This is essentially a pin-up cover and it blares with the new costumes, vehicles and promise of a peek at their headquarters. It’s a very blue cover. So very very blue.
The Story:
We open with a 2/3 splash of “Miracle Man” performing. He points out the FF in the audience and then taunts them to the point that Ben loses his cool. Taking up the gauntlet Miracle Man proposes they each shatter a large log (convenient him having them). Ben pounds his way through it, after which Miracle Man slices his in half in one blow with a single finger. Ben then slugs M.M. who is unaffected by the blow. Certainly an assault…probably a battery. The FF pull Ben off and they take off in the newly revealed Fantasticar, with Reed, also known as Debbie Downer, concerned about the danger of Miracle Man attacking the world and their possible inability to defeat him. Of course it’s serendipitous as M.M. is plotting to take over the world. Mwahahaha! We end chapter one with a cut-away of the FF’s headquarters. In addition to the Fantasticar they have a helicopter, the Pogo Plane and a Long-Range Passenger Missile. And a giant map room. Presumably for all their giant maps.
The FF’s new uniforms are revealed as Johnny tunes in to the Red Carpet premiere of The Monster From Mars movie…complete with giant statue of the monster. The uni’s are the classic FF designed by Sue herself. Ben is not amused by the helmet that has been designed for him. Reed is so interested that he simply can’t put down his pipe. There’s clearly no better way to take over the world than to attack the premiere of a movie. So in normal super-villain fashion he sends a note to the police commissioner telling him he’s declaring war on the human race. Not quite Riddler-esque…but still. MM brings the Monster to life, prompting the need for police bazookas. The Monster then disappears. The FF split up to look for him, each in their own section of the Fantasti-car
Reed discovers The Monster and traps him, but is hit in the noggin with a brick by M.M. He’s then chewed out by the police commissioner for not doing the police’s job for them. Johnny finds The Monster as it steals an atomic tank. Johnny sets fire to The Monster as Ben ditches his new costume. Johnny, however, is taken down by M.M. wielding chemical foam. M.M. then causes Ben to sink in to the ground and takes off in the atomic tank with Sue riding along on the tank invisibly.
Johnny worries about Sue and Ben rehashes their origin while Reed smokes his pipe. Sue is discovered by a dog and hypnotized by M.M. He lures the rest of the Four Where he discovers that a machine gun won’t take them out. M.M. takes off in the atomic tank and they give chase in a hot rod. Johnny uses his flame to produce an intense light that blinds M.M. and causes him to lose his powers. He was just a master of mass hypnosis. Ben grouses about Johnny getting credit for taking down M.M. and this causes Johnny to fly off in a huff. Debbie Downer (Reed) wonders what they’ll do if he turns bad.
Thoughts…
The FF take a giant leap to full-fledged superherodom. The gain costumes, vehicles and a headquarters. In fact Sue talks about being in the business of crime fighting for real. Ben’s temper is incredibly bad. The battles between he and Johnny aren’t the type of kidding around we’re used too. They get in to some knock-down drag-out dangerous fights. Reed is arguably the biggest downer ever. But he’s working on lung cancer…so that’s good. Sue was almost useful for a second…then she went back to being window dressing. Johnny has gotten more control of his flame and has gained his smooth with flame outline look.
The plot…well the less you think about it the better. Beyond the silliness of M.M.’s schemes and actions…there is the fact that his powers simply can’t work as they’re depicted. If he’s a master of mass hypnosis The Monster doesn’t actually move. It can’t actually reach into a bank and steal a million in gems. And one atomic tank is going to allow him to take over the world…yeah.
The art is a step up. It’s still no great shakes, but Brodsky seems to help where Klein didn’t. Ben is still the weak link here. Not good…but better.
The toll: One wooden and paper machie monster…maybe. On hole Ben punches in the wall of the Baxter Building. One antique racing car wheel.
Grade for historic importance: B
Story - C
Art - C.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 4, 2014 23:56:56 GMT -5
It speaks to how popular superheroes were at the time that the FF lasted long enough to, well, be the FF |
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), but the campiness of the stories aside, part of me wishes they had kept the pseudo monster title/'fugitive 'monsters'/adventurers willing to explore and help' vibe right down to the civy clothes instead of the stereotypical superhero coat of paint the FF would receive in FF #3. Although there's no denying that giving the FF the more typical uniforms, headquarters, and even trademark vehicle and leaning the title in a more 'superhero' direction was certainly needed for better longevity's sake (afterall, look at what happened to the first ever Incredible Hulk series, another pseudo monster title in its own right), I like to call it all a coat of paint because underneath all that, FF was/still is really a lot more-so a 'science fiction/adventure, with romance, comedy, and drama thrown in for good measure' title at the end of the day, with the only superhero extent being the title characters happening to have superpowers...which is something I think has further confounded quite a few general comic fans through the years and especially recently, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
Although, I fear First Family will be the closest thing to that we'll ever see... 