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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 16:18:01 GMT -5
I consider the Avengers to be the flagship title. It has spun into multiple sister titles ( New Avengers, Young Avengers, Mighty, Uncanny etc). Also, the major events were spun off from that title. Civil War, Secret Invasion were the major impact events that changed the MU for a while. The entire current reset was from a story begun in New Avengers. You got a valid point here and I applauded you for that. I can clearly think of 4-6 storylines that results from a story in New Avengers that shaped what's Marvel is for today. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 22, 2015 17:04:49 GMT -5
Most modern events have a mini series that series as it's 'Flagship'.. event if it's not line-wide. I can't recall the last one that didn't, honestly... Operation: Galactic Storm maybe? Or maybe the last Eclipso even over at DC? While it's true most Marvel event revolve around the Avengers, they sometimes barely touch the actual Avengers title, lest they disturb Hickman. Man, do I ever hate that guy.  Hah! I think you've convinced me. Idiotic Event Series # 3,416 is Marvel's New Flagship title... until Idiotic Event Series # 3,417 starts! Marvel Comics was the Flagship title in the '40s, at least for the adventure line. (The funny animal line was probably considered just as important to the company, especially when Fago was editor, though!) Fantastic Four in the '60s. Spider-man in the '70s... with Conan close behind. X-men in the '90s. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jun 22, 2015 17:06:48 GMT -5
In my totally subjective opinion, Amazing Spider-Man was Marvel's flagship title from the mid-60s up until, probably, the mid-90s. Anyone who disagrees can meet me on top of the George Washington Bridge for a fight with pumpkin bombs!
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 22, 2015 19:02:33 GMT -5
Probably the easiest way to determine "flagship status" is sales.
60's: Fantastic Four
70's: Amazing Spider-Man
80's: Uncanny X-Men
It's hard to gauge the 90's since it was, overall, such a sad time for Marvel. It started well with X-Men #1, but after 1993 it all went to hell. I suppose the X-Men and Spider-Man were still the flagship titles, but Heroes Reborn changed things. I still think that the Busiek/Perez Heroes Return Avengers run was the start of the Avenger's ascendance.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 22, 2015 19:32:55 GMT -5
Probably the easiest way to determine "flagship status" is sales. 60's: Fantastic Four 70's: Amazing Spider-Man 80's: Uncanny X-Men It's hard to gauge the 90's since it was, overall, such a sad time for Marvel. It started well with X-Men #1, but after 1993 it all went to hell. I suppose the X-Men and Spider-Man were still the flagship titles, but Heroes Reborn changed things. I still think that the Busiek/Perez Heroes Return Avengers run was the start of the Avenger's ascendance. Even before that... The Jim Lee Fantastic Four was a really big deal* and was the first time in well over a decade that the X-men, Spider-man, and/or licensed books weren't Marvel's main sellers. The Busiek/Perez Avengers definitely cemented that. Then the pendulum swung back to X-men and Spider-man a bit when Morrison and Straczynski were on X-men and Spider-man, and then turned Avengers-ward with the Bendis Spider-man/Wolverine/evenbook-Vengers. * The Rob Liefeld books ... less so.** ** I've got real affection for the Loeb/Liefeld Captain Ameica though. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 22, 2015 19:54:34 GMT -5
I don't remember the Busiek Avengers being the top seller for Marvel. Maybe mrp can chime in on this.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 22, 2015 20:48:57 GMT -5
Looking through some Comichron stats:
1995 was dominated sales wise by X-Men... AoA was THE top of the charts... late in the orignal run of Avengers was really low... 70-100 rank wise... below X-Men and Spiderman 2099 even.
Sadly, they don't have the numbers for the Crossing (Comichron has only diamond).. I'd REALLY like to see that.
Heroes reborn topped the chart as #1s, but after that, pretty much all the X-titles were on the top of the charts, batting with 'kewl' Image stuff for top spots. Spidey was in the 20-30 range.
Heroes Return titles stayed in the top 10 in early '98.. and kinda stayed there... Sept. '98, with the new titles at Issue 10: Avengers #6 (behind only the 2 main X-titles for Marvel), FF #11, Cap #13, Iron Man #18. Spidey was #21
Busiek's Avengers stayed in the top 10 until around 2002.
It never beat the two main X-Books, though... the other Heroes return titles didn't stay ahead of the b-tier X-titles, either.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jun 23, 2015 11:17:06 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what the term "flagship" is used for in the majority of the real world, which is to describe something as being the most prestigious and most associated with the company/group's identity & reputation. It doesn't necessarily have to do with sales, popularity, etc. For instance, in Microsoft's case Windows would be their flagship product. For Apple, their iPhone line would probably be their flagship line.
For Marvel, I'd agree that it has shifted over the years. FF was clearly the flagship for the majority of the early years. Sometime in the 70s I'd speculate that Spider-Man took center stage, followed eventually by the X-Men (cemented by X-Men #1 in the 90s). At this point I think it's clear that with the movie-based focus that it's pretty clearly the Avengers titles/group that are the current flagship. All opinion, of course, and your mileage may vary.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 11:49:18 GMT -5
I have been enlightened by this subject matter and believe me it's made me think about the prestige of Marvel's Comics and it's characters here. I just wanted to convey that and I appreciate everyone contribution here and made me think about the past achivements of Marvel Comics.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 23, 2015 12:24:22 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what the term "flagship" is used for in the majority of the real world, which is to describe something as being the most prestigious and most associated with the company/group's identity & reputation. It doesn't necessarily have to do with sales, popularity, etc. For instance, in Microsoft's case Windows would be their flagship product. For Apple, their iPhone line would probably be their flagship line. For Marvel, I'd agree that it has shifted over the years. FF was clearly the flagship for the majority of the early years. Sometime in the 70s I'd speculate that Spider-Man took center stage, followed eventually by the X-Men (cemented by X-Men #1 in the 90s). At this point I think it's clear that with the movie-based focus that it's pretty clearly the Avengers titles/group that are the current flagship. All opinion, of course, and your mileage may vary. As a Navy man, was the flagship always the most powerful, capable, or diverse ship among the fleet? Or all of these? That might help me if only for my own opinion to form a better idea of what would constitute a flagship title in this analogy. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jun 23, 2015 13:09:36 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what the term "flagship" is used for in the majority of the real world, which is to describe something as being the most prestigious and most associated with the company/group's identity & reputation. It doesn't necessarily have to do with sales, popularity, etc. For instance, in Microsoft's case Windows would be their flagship product. For Apple, their iPhone line would probably be their flagship line. For Marvel, I'd agree that it has shifted over the years. FF was clearly the flagship for the majority of the early years. Sometime in the 70s I'd speculate that Spider-Man took center stage, followed eventually by the X-Men (cemented by X-Men #1 in the 90s). At this point I think it's clear that with the movie-based focus that it's pretty clearly the Avengers titles/group that are the current flagship. All opinion, of course, and your mileage may vary. As a Navy man, was the flagship always the most powerful, capable, or diverse ship among the fleet? Or all of these? That might help me if only for my own opinion to form a better idea of what would constitute a flagship title in this analogy. Usually, but not necessarily, the most capable ship in the fleet, it was the lead ship in the group. The name "flagship" derives from it being the ship with the commanding officer of the group officer being on it, frequently of Admiral rank (also known as "flag officers"). This entry from Wikipedia does a good job explaining it:
"A flagship is a vessel used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships, reflecting the custom of its commander, characteristically a flag officer, flying a distinguishing flag. Used more loosely, it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, typically the first, largest, fastest, most heavily armed, or best known.
Over the years, the term "flagship" has been borrowed in metaphorical form by industries such as broadcasting, automobiles, cell phones, education, national airlines, breweries and retailing to refer to their highest profile or most expensive products and outlets."
So, in Naval terms, technically it's just the ship that the guy in command rides around on. But, as they say, "rank has its privileges" so it was usually the best ship too.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 23, 2015 13:42:11 GMT -5
Well if the officer is mostly the deciding factor, that would seem that the title would have to feature a character that carries the title if it were a team book. The comic is just the ship to transport a single character that commands the most attention. Not necessarily through the fictional aspect of it, like a team leader, or a natural leader like Cap, but a character that commands the attention of the consumer consistently. Is there any one title that possible has done that from it's start and continues to?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 23, 2015 13:42:38 GMT -5
So, in a literal sense.. Iron Man WILL be the Flagship title, since Bendis runs the place. I new that's what it meant (Love me some Naval fiction), but I never thought to apply it so tightly.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 23, 2015 13:47:32 GMT -5
So, in a literal sense.. Iron Man WILL be the Flagship title, since Bendis runs the place. I new that's what it meant (Love me some Naval fiction), but I never thought to apply it so tightly. God help us all, Bendis is the commanding officer of Marvel.  |
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Post by Trevor on Jun 23, 2015 13:55:30 GMT -5
Marvel has produced books since Micronauts ended?
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