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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 9, 2015 10:38:03 GMT -5
Len Wein on Hulk is definitive to me. I grew up with his take on 'ole Greenskin and nothing I've read before or since (including Peter David) comes to me as good as I take Wein's great run to be. And yes, his Swamp Thing was great as well. I confess to (a) never having followed the Hulk except in the most casual fashion; and (b) being unfamiliar with Peter David as a writer except for the column he wrote for years for the Comics Buyers Guide and his unfortunate health issues. But I'm intrigued by your "including Peter David" note, b-d, and wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on it. |
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Post by benday-dot on Jul 9, 2015 20:32:02 GMT -5
Len Wein on Hulk is definitive to me. I grew up with his take on 'ole Greenskin and nothing I've read before or since (including Peter David) comes to me as good as I take Wein's great run to be. And yes, his Swamp Thing was great as well. I confess to (a) never having followed the Hulk except in the most casual fashion; and (b) being unfamiliar with Peter David as a writer except for the column he wrote for years for the Comics Buyers Guide and his unfortunate health issues. But I'm intrigued by your "including Peter David" note, b-d, and wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on it. Oh, it was a just a reference to Peter David's long and typically acclaimed run on the Hulk. I think that many fans of the Hulk would pick his run as one of the best ever to granted the Hulk. His tenure, which also featured some fine artists, had humour and wit, as well as some very sad stories. He also brought us the Mr.Fixit character, actually being the original Grey Hulk, who was recast as a further incarnation of a complex of personalities. He was a bit of a nasty fellow. David's stories were pretty good, but I still hold highest the simpler days when Hulk was Hulk. He liked to smash, but you couldn't really hate him for it. You even cheered him on, because he was after all an innocent. Wein was a master at capturing this pathos, and brought us a great run of stories of the Hulk at his most destructive and tragic. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 9, 2015 23:47:27 GMT -5
I confess to (a) never having followed the Hulk except in the most casual fashion; and (b) being unfamiliar with Peter David as a writer except for the column he wrote for years for the Comics Buyers Guide and his unfortunate health issues. But I'm intrigued by your "including Peter David" note, b-d, and wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on it. Oh, it was a just a reference to Peter David's long and typically acclaimed run on the Hulk. I think that many fans of the Hulk would pick his run as one of the best ever to granted the Hulk. His tenure, which also featured some fine artists, had humour and wit, as well as some very sad stories. He also brought us the Mr.Fixit character, actually being the original Grey Hulk, who was recast as a further incarnation of a complex of personalities. He was a bit of a nasty fellow. David's stories were pretty good, but I still hold highest the simpler days when Hulk was Hulk. He liked to smash, but you couldn't really hate him for it. You even cheered him on, because he was after all an innocent. Wein was a master at capturing this pathos, and brought us a great run of stories of the Hulk at his most destructive and tragic. Thanks for the insights, b-d. As I said, I knew nothing of David's run except what he wrote about it frequently in his column, so it helps to have the view of a Hulk aficionado to put it in context. FWIW, I've always preferred the version of the Hulk you do, which veered more closely to the monster of Frankenstein tradition. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 10, 2015 0:11:23 GMT -5
I confess to (a) never having followed the Hulk except in the most casual fashion; and (b) being unfamiliar with Peter David as a writer except for the column he wrote for years for the Comics Buyers Guide and his unfortunate health issues. But I'm intrigued by your "including Peter David" note, b-d, and wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on it. Oh, it was a just a reference to Peter David's long and typically acclaimed run on the Hulk. I think that many fans of the Hulk would pick his run as one of the best ever to granted the Hulk. His tenure, which also featured some fine artists, had humour and wit, as well as some very sad stories. He also brought us the Mr.Fixit character, actually being the original Grey Hulk, who was recast as a further incarnation of a complex of personalities. He was a bit of a nasty fellow. David's stories were pretty good, but I still hold highest the simpler days when Hulk was Hulk. He liked to smash, but you couldn't really hate him for it. You even cheered him on, because he was after all an innocent. Wein was a master at capturing this pathos, and brought us a great run of stories of the Hulk at his most destructive and tragic. No question. Wein's Hulk was the definitive version. This was also the period that the Hulk skyrockted in popularity, so much so that he got his own TV series. I think the thing that a lot of writers and readers miss about the classic Hulk is that he's not a "limited" character due to his intelligence and monstrous nature, but a unique character because of it. I think the Hulk is a hard character to write because he's not ostensibly relatable as a Peter Parker or as wish fulfilling as Bruce Wayne. The classic version might also suffer from the age old bias against writing "kids" since the savage Hulk had the IQ of a five year old. |
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Post by berkley on Jul 10, 2015 0:39:58 GMT -5
I'd like to hear more about how Wein's was the definitive Hulk because to me it's always looked like he just continued a standard Hulk story pattern that had been established before his run on the series. Did he introduce any new elements to the Hulk, or is it just that he wrote an already standardised Hulk narrative better than anyone else?
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 10, 2015 7:52:56 GMT -5
I'd like to hear more about how Wein's was the definitive Hulk because to me it's always looked like he just continued a standard Hulk story pattern that had been established before his run on the series. Did he introduce any new elements to the Hulk, or is it just that he wrote an already standardised Hulk narrative better than anyone else? I'd say the latter. He wasn't particularly innovative as to the kind of stories he told, it's just that he told them so well: plots tightly structured, narration and dialogue natural and flowing, characterizations consistent. It's probably the last of these that make Wein's run stand out. He was the first scripter, for example, to add depth to the hitherto cartoonish Thunderbolt Ross, and his Hulk displays a remarkable and subtle breadth within his limited emotional range. I personally appreciate the way Len often builds his story around other characters rather than the lead and his regular supporting cast, like the Missing Link and the Appalachian mining family that adopts him (#179), Marie Cartier, the Wendigo's obsessed sister (#180-81), or Crackajack Jackson, the intinerant blues musician who befriends Hulk (#182). Prompted by this thread, I re-read the first eight issues of Wein's run and it really is as good as my memory insisted it was... and remember, I'm not even a Hulk fan! Cei-U! I summon the good stuff! |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 10, 2015 14:05:34 GMT -5
The childlike Hulk of Wein's era is still seen in popular culture. One local weekly paper has occasional op-ed columns supposedly written by the Hulk; here's the latest one, from two weeks ago: _________________________________________________________________________________________________ ATTENTION PUNY HUMANS! What follow am public service announcement about fireworks! (Ahem.) HULK HATE FIREWORKS! Fireworks make Hulk want to SMASH!! Don't puny humans care about Hulk feelings? Every year, puny Bruce Banner very nicely knock on neighbor door and say, "Excuse me? Your fireworks are really frightening... errr... my dog." Then puny neighbors laugh and shove sparkler down puny Banner's pants! Then puny Banner turn into Hulk! Then Hulk throw puny neighbor into reservoir three miles away! Then same thing happen next year! And next! IT AM VICIOUS CIRCLE! Hulk say it simple: Loud noises hurt Hulk ears. Loud noises remind Hulk how General Thunderbolt Ross send army men to kill Hulk! Hulk even go to doctor for help—and Doctor Strange say Hulk have PTSD! (That stand for Post-Traumatic Smashing Destruction.) When Hulk hear loud fireworks, Hulk hide under bed! When Hulk can't fit under bed, Hulk squeeze behind couch! When Hulk can't squeeze behind couch? Hulk smash Moda Center! See? ANOTHER VICIOUS CIRCLE!! Alcoholic Tony Stark say, "Hulk, buddy—just have a drink. Relax!" No, alcoholic Tony Stark! Liquor make Hulk send late-night text message, and next thing Hulk know, Black Widow file restraining order! Then Hawkeye say, "Just chill, bro! Drop by my awesome new Burnside 26 apartment! We'll vape some sweet herb!" UGGGGHHH! No thanks, douchebag! Hulk feel stupid enough already! Fireworks make Hulk HATE Fourth of July. AMERICA AM HULK'S HOME TOO, YOU KNOW! What about Hulk freedoms? What about Hulk rights? So Hulk can get gay married, but Hulk can't spend Fourth of July quietly working on Gilmore Girls scrapbooking project? THAT NOT AMERICA HULK SIGN UP FOR! If puny humans am true Americans, they join Hulk in SMASHING fireworks this Fourth of July! BUT QUIETLY, PLEASE! www.portlandmercury.com/portland/one-hulks-opinion/Content?oid=15961684 |
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Post by benday-dot on Jul 10, 2015 19:18:30 GMT -5
The childlike Hulk of Wein's era is still seen in popular culture. One local weekly paper has occasional op-ed columns supposedly written by the Hulk; here's the latest one, from two weeks ago: _________________________________________________________________________________________________ ATTENTION PUNY HUMANS! What follow am public service announcement about fireworks! (Ahem.) HULK HATE FIREWORKS! Fireworks make Hulk want to SMASH!! Don't puny humans care about Hulk feelings? Every year, puny Bruce Banner very nicely knock on neighbor door and say, "Excuse me? Your fireworks are really frightening... errr... my dog." Then puny neighbors laugh and shove sparkler down puny Banner's pants! Then puny Banner turn into Hulk! Then Hulk throw puny neighbor into reservoir three miles away! Then same thing happen next year! And next! IT AM VICIOUS CIRCLE! Hulk say it simple: Loud noises hurt Hulk ears. Loud noises remind Hulk how General Thunderbolt Ross send army men to kill Hulk! Hulk even go to doctor for help—and Doctor Strange say Hulk have PTSD! (That stand for Post-Traumatic Smashing Destruction.) When Hulk hear loud fireworks, Hulk hide under bed! When Hulk can't fit under bed, Hulk squeeze behind couch! When Hulk can't squeeze behind couch? Hulk smash Moda Center! See? ANOTHER VICIOUS CIRCLE!! Alcoholic Tony Stark say, "Hulk, buddy—just have a drink. Relax!" No, alcoholic Tony Stark! Liquor make Hulk send late-night text message, and next thing Hulk know, Black Widow file restraining order! Then Hawkeye say, "Just chill, bro! Drop by my awesome new Burnside 26 apartment! We'll vape some sweet herb!" UGGGGHHH! No thanks, douchebag! Hulk feel stupid enough already! Fireworks make Hulk HATE Fourth of July. AMERICA AM HULK'S HOME TOO, YOU KNOW! What about Hulk freedoms? What about Hulk rights? So Hulk can get gay married, but Hulk can't spend Fourth of July quietly working on Gilmore Girls scrapbooking project? THAT NOT AMERICA HULK SIGN UP FOR! If puny humans am true Americans, they join Hulk in SMASHING fireworks this Fourth of July! BUT QUIETLY, PLEASE! www.portlandmercury.com/portland/one-hulks-opinion/Content?oid=15961684Rob, that was great. Thanks for sharing! |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 11, 2015 5:42:26 GMT -5
Wein's run on Incredible Hulk ran from #179-220 (with Roger Stern scripting from Len's plots for the last three) plus Annuals #5-6 (with Chris Claremont scripting 5). He kept the title character as a slow-witted wanderer, with much of his sub-plotting focusing on the supporting cast. During his run, he introduced Wolverine, Hammer and Anvil, Paragon a.k.a. Her, Glorian and The Constrictor; guest-starred the Defenders, Man-Thing, Jack of Hearts and Nick Fury, featured rematches with the Missing Link, Wendigo, Zzzax, Mole Man, the Toad Men, the Shaper of Worlds, Abomination, the Absorbing Man, the Bi-Beast and the Rhino, returned Hulk to the microworld of K'ai , furthered the "They Who Wield Power" storyline he'd introduced in Marvel Team-Up, formally tied Doctor Druid and a buncha baddies from the pre-hero monster comics to the Marvel Universe, restored Doc Samson's super-powers, and killed two members of the supporting cast. Just listing all the above makes me want to go back and re-read it. Maybe I will! Cei-U! I summon the killer run! Thanks for the run down , Kurt. I google Len Wein and got general info but I couldn't find a checklist of his comic book runs. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 13, 2015 13:39:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the run down , Kurt. I google Len Wein and got general info but I couldn't find a checklist of his comic book runs. Try this: www.comics.org/credit/name/Len%20Wein/sort/chrono/That's all of his credits in the GCD, including editing. It's sorted chronologically, but they have a lot of entries with no date that show up first. Len's real first credit is a Teen Titans script near the bottom of the first page. By changing 'credit' to 'writer' in that URL, you get: www.comics.org/writer/name/Len%20Wein/sort/chrono/This list of Len's writing credits is 29 pages, vs. 89 for the first list. That Teen Titans script is about 2/3 of the way down the first page. |
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