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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 10:50:18 GMT -5
I understand that Larry Stroman , who did a book called Tribe, made a million dollars from his book. This industry can be hit or miss. Off the first issue, yes. Where did his career go after that? Name me one creator (who wasn't an Image founder) whose career got stronger after joining Image in the '90s.
Image didn't try to rob these guys. They just absolutely didn't care about supporting or empowering them after issue #1 (and sometimes they weren't even allowed to get that far). A quick search produced- Greg Capullo, David Fich, Michael Turner, Scott Campbell, Joe Madureira. Do they count?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2018 10:54:04 GMT -5
Off the first issue, yes. Where did his career go after that? Name me one creator (who wasn't an Image founder) whose career got stronger after joining Image in the '90s.
Image didn't try to rob these guys. They just absolutely didn't care about supporting or empowering them after issue #1 (and sometimes they weren't even allowed to get that far). A quick search produced- Greg Capullo, David Fich, Michael Turner, Scott Campbell, Joe Madureira. Do they count? Do they? Capullo took over for McFarlane on Spawn. Did he get to launch anything big of his own? Seems like the only reason he got anywhere was because of his usefulness to an Image founder. Campbell came up through Jim Lee. You're technically correct there, but he got big by co-creating with an Image founder. Michael Turner and Joe Madureira were the end of the 1990s, when Image was already a different company. And what happened to everyone else?
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 10:55:15 GMT -5
Sorry man. I love you, but that's utter b.s. This was a time in which editors like Bob Harrass were giving hot artists total creative control over the books at Marvel, even pushing out veteran creators to make way. these guys were making a fortune at Marvel -- they just weren't getting the royalties. McFarlane got his own f-ing Spidey title with total creative control when Romita had been begging for that luxury for years. Why? Because he gave Spidey big eyes and exaggerated poses. Marvel treated these guys like kings. I mention again that, when you look over all the old interviews about the founding of Image, only McFarlane EVER speaks ill of Marvel because they wouldn't give him everything he wanted. There's a classic interview with all the founders where McFarlane goes off on Marvel, and all the other Image founders just get really quiet.
The Big Two absolutely should have paid royalties (and they do now), but that was never what this was really about. What, did Todd want royalties on Spidey? Of course, he did (erroneously) claim he created Venom. The dude was an entitled little prig, and he turned Image into a mouthpiece for his tantrums. All the rest of the founders wanted was an opportunity to put their own ideas to work instead of having to use established Marvel properties.
There's no way you're going to compare writing and Drawing a Spider-man Book to having a movie and cartoon series produced abut a character that you own ( Spawn) and keeping the money all yourself rather than getting pennies?
I remember Jim Starlin telling me a few years ago that , at the time, he had made more money from the Mongul character from action figures , than he had ever made for Thanos. That's a shame, man.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 10:58:13 GMT -5
A quick search produced- Greg Capullo, David Fich, Michael Turner, Scott Campbell, Joe Madureira. Do they count? Do they? Capullo took over for McFarlane on Spawn. Did he get to launch anything big of his own? Campbell came up through Jim Lee. You're technically correct there, but Lee took a very different approach than the rest of the company. Michael Turner and Joe Madureira were the end of the 1990s, when Image was already a different company.
And what happened to everyone else? This is part of my point, they evolved into the company there are today. Capullo became a bigger name doing Spawn than he ever would have doing Quasar. And what's supposed to happen to everyone else? Image isn't responsible for a person entire career anymore than DC or Marvel is.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2018 10:58:22 GMT -5
Sorry man. I love you, but that's utter b.s. This was a time in which editors like Bob Harrass were giving hot artists total creative control over the books at Marvel, even pushing out veteran creators to make way. these guys were making a fortune at Marvel -- they just weren't getting the royalties. McFarlane got his own f-ing Spidey title with total creative control when Romita had been begging for that luxury for years. Why? Because he gave Spidey big eyes and exaggerated poses. Marvel treated these guys like kings. I mention again that, when you look over all the old interviews about the founding of Image, only McFarlane EVER speaks ill of Marvel because they wouldn't give him everything he wanted. There's a classic interview with all the founders where McFarlane goes off on Marvel, and all the other Image founders just get really quiet. The Big Two absolutely should have paid royalties (and they do now), but that was never what this was really about. What, did Todd want royalties on Spidey? Of course, he did (erroneously) claim he created Venom. The dude was an entitled little prig, and he turned Image into a mouthpiece for his tantrums. All the rest of the founders wanted was an opportunity to put their own ideas to work instead of having to use established Marvel properties.There's no way you're going to compare writing and Drawing a Spider-man Book to having a movie and cartoon series produced abut a character that you own ( Spawn) and keeping the money all yourself rather than getting pennies? I remember Jim Starlin telling me a few years ago that , at the time, he had made more money from the Mongul character from action figures , than he had ever made for Thanos. That's a shame, man. I think you've missed my point. This was really fun, but I'm exhausted and need to move on with my day. I think we both know neither of us is going to change our minds on this, and I'm not even sure we're speaking the same language. Agree to disagree? Of course, you'll be wrong, but that's on you
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2018 10:59:09 GMT -5
This is part of my point, they evolved into the company there are today. Capullo became a bigger name doing Spawn than he ever would have doing Quasar. And what's supposed to happen to everyone else? Image isn't responsible for a person entire career anymore than DC or Marvel is. We are definitely arguing in circles here.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 11:00:15 GMT -5
Yes, I understand. I win again. I ALWAYS WIN! IS THERE NO ONE TO CHALLENGE ME!!!!!!!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2018 11:01:24 GMT -5
Yes, I understand. I win again. I ALWAYS WIN! IS THERE NO ONE TO CHALLENGE ME!!!!!!!I think we can agree that I own all the valid points you made in this argument. I've already got three action figures in production and a direct-to-HBO cartoon adaptation in the works. 100% owned by me, right?
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 11:02:24 GMT -5
Yes, I understand. I win again. I ALWAYS WIN! IS THERE NO ONE TO CHALLENGE ME!!!!!!!Terrance Stamp would be proud of me.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 11:03:04 GMT -5
Yes, I understand. I win again. I ALWAYS WIN! IS THERE NO ONE TO CHALLENGE ME!!!!!!!I think we can agree that I own all the valid points you made in this argument. I've already got three action figures in production and a direct-to-HBO cartoon adaptation in the works. 100% owned by me, right? Screwed again by the man.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,692
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2018 11:10:18 GMT -5
I think we can agree that I own all the valid points you made in this argument. I've already got three action figures in production and a direct-to-HBO cartoon adaptation in the works. 100% owned by me, right? Screwed again by the man.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2018 11:12:32 GMT -5
Screwed again by the man. If you believe in Karma , then you understand why he was stuck with 2 worthless balls. Ahem, I mean Baseballs.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2018 11:24:28 GMT -5
If you believe in Karma , then you understand why he was stuck with 2 worthless balls. Ahem, I mean Baseballs. If McGuire had bought multiple copies of Spawn #1, I'd imagine he'd be similarly disappointed.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 11, 2018 13:01:01 GMT -5
Let me just summarize and clarify my issues with Image. It was pretty much centered around their first couple of years. At the start, a few of the group (mostly McFarlane and Larsen) were making rather hypocritical and disingenuous statements that irked me. The others tended to be a bit more mature. It was easy to get caught up in the wars of words, especially if you read (as I did) CBG and the Comics Journal, rather than Wizard. A lot of it was what was going on in the 90s, with pandering to speculators, which Image did as much, if not more, than anyone else.
Over time, and as more diverse and distinct voices were welcomed into the company, my consumption of Image titles grew. It turned into a great little company. But, it was a pretty rocky start
This is why I haven't tackled Image, coupled with the fact that they are an ongoing concern. I've been holding off them and Dark Horse, as they cover a lot of ground and I also don't want to slag off a lot of books that don't interest me. When I do tackle Image, I hope to emulate the late Don Thompson (of CBG) and just stick to the good and leave it at "if this material appeals to you, this is the kind of stuff you will probably like," and leave it at that. There are plenty of early Image books and many later that I am enthusiastic about and want to highlight, at some point.
These days, I don't consider McFarlane an idiot, nor do I want to see Larsen roast on a spit, over better written scripts by the writers he attacked. Back around 1994? well, that was a different time.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 11, 2018 13:06:01 GMT -5
Aw, hell. After reading further in the thread (after being taken there when I saw I was quoted) I wish I had just kept my big mouth shut. I had 90s flashbacks and that wasn't a good decade for me.
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