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Post by zaku on Jan 28, 2023 8:16:10 GMT -5
Since his appearance he has managed to avoid a speeding car, jump several floors, and crush "steel like paper". I am sure that I could neutralize someone if I suddenly acquired all these skills. Just by waving my arms around me I think I'd make a carnage. But let's leave Spidey himself to speak
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Post by foxley on Jan 28, 2023 8:26:58 GMT -5
So all the times Spidey has got his ass kicked, it's because he chose to? What a whiny masochist he is.
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Post by zaku on Jan 28, 2023 8:30:48 GMT -5
So all the times Spidey has got his ass kicked, it's because he chose to? What a whiny masochist he is. They literally said so in the comics themselves.
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 28, 2023 10:50:52 GMT -5
In Annual 3 he staggered the Hulk. This was a mark of his power ranking in the Silver Age. Though his strength waxed and waned depending on his foe. I am not sure if this was later reconned?
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 28, 2023 12:34:13 GMT -5
In Annual 3 he staggered the Hulk. This was a mark of his power ranking in the Silver Age. Though his strength waxed and waned depending on his foe. I am not sure if this was later reconned? Anyone can ramp up their game for a few seconds. I loved that issue , by the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 12:41:47 GMT -5
I am sincerely sorry to always be that annoying guy who throws a wrestling comparison in here, but I expect as much logic in comicbook battles as I do with wrestling battles. Specifically, there must be some logic, but it needn’t be the be-all and end-all.
Some consistency is important, but whether it’s Hogan bodyslamming Andre the Giant, or Tarantula being able to give Spidey a run for his money, then I just suspend my disbelief and enjoy the ride.
If we more away from the WWF/WWE analogies, then there’s this: deep down, one might ask how even a strong, big guy like Kingpin can challenge Spidey and Cap (and he’s fought both, right?). Perhaps on a purely logic and pedantic level, Kingpin - who is still just a man - shouldn’t be challenging a web-slinger or super soldier, but the fun is in seeing him do that. I view comic scriptwriters like I view those who plan/put together wrestling matches: they should aim for some logic/consistency, but not be bogged down by it.
(And for avoidance of all doubt, I am not advocating, for example, Batman being able to take down Galactus, or Robin using a dozen karate chops to take down Juggernaut)
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 28, 2023 13:13:08 GMT -5
So all the times Spidey has got his ass kicked, it's because he chose to? What a whiny masochist he is. Not to mention that each time someone got hurt because Spidey only used "a fraction of his strength" instead of quickly trouncing some bad guy, then it was Peter's fault.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 13:17:54 GMT -5
I always thought Peter was a super fun character overall, with all his wise-cracking banter and goings on.
Now I learn it was all really the "tears of a clown"...
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 28, 2023 13:22:52 GMT -5
This was from Spider-Man Annual #15, 1981. Much disagreement will ensue.
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Post by zaku on Jan 28, 2023 13:30:47 GMT -5
Perhaps on a purely logic and pedantic level, Kingpin - who is still just a man - shouldn’t be challenging a web-slinger or super soldier, He shouldn't and he couldn't. The only thing that always saved him was the fact Spidey made guilt an Olympic Discipline and he's always scared of hurting someone. Until he isn't
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 28, 2023 13:52:25 GMT -5
This was from Spider-Man Annual #15, 1981. Much disagreement will ensue. Oh, there's much to disagree with this 1981 chart. They have Captain America on the level of Hawkeye and Ka-Zar?
A couple of years later, in The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #2 (February, 1983), Cap's strength was described as follows:
"Captain America possesses no superhuman powers, but the Super-Soldier serum has heightened his physical form to the pinnacle of human perfection"
The "pinnacle of human perfection" surpasses the capacity / physical abilities of a near-naked jungle man, an archer, and endless numbers of costumed characters.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 28, 2023 13:53:08 GMT -5
Kingpin going toe to toe with Spider-man is ridiculous. And it always was. I’m okay with him squaring off with Daredevil.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 28, 2023 14:04:38 GMT -5
Kingpin going toe to toe with Spider-man is ridiculous. And it always was. I’m okay with him squaring off with Daredevil. Wellll...The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #6 (June, 1983) explains the Kingpin's fighting prowess in this way:
"The Kingpin's great fighting skills and extraordinary agility for a man of his size compensate for the great difference between his strength and Spider-Man's in unarmed combat. (Spider-man has inhibitions about using his full strength against an opponent without superhuman powers for fear of killing him or her)."
I'd say that's a reasonable explanation for the Kingpin's ability to fight Spider-Man.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 14:10:51 GMT -5
Kingpin going toe to toe with Spider-man is ridiculous. And it always was. I’m okay with him squaring off with Daredevil. Wellll...The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #6 (June, 1983) explains the Kingpin's fighting prowess in this way:
"The Kingpin's great fighting skills and extraordinary agility for a man of his size compensate for the great difference between his strength and Spider-Man's in unarmed combat. (Spider-man has inhibitions about using his full strength against an opponent without superhuman powers for fear of killing him or her)."
I'd say that's a reasonable explanation for the Kingpin's ability to fight Spider-Man.
I like when Kingpin claims he has what, only 2% body fat and it's all really mostly muscle? At least in the cartoon anyways:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 14:22:36 GMT -5
Perhaps on a purely logic and pedantic level, Kingpin - who is still just a man - shouldn’t be challenging a web-slinger or super soldier, He shouldn't and he couldn't. The only thing that always saved him was the fact Spidey made guilt an Olympic Discipline and he's always scared of hurting someone. Until he isn't We’re gonna have to agree to disagree because my view is that Spidey isn’t perpetually holding back, guilt isn’t part of 100% of his battles. He’s not held back against the likes of the Kingpin at times. I feel it’s simply a case of suspension of disbelief, and that writers don’t devote 100% of their brain energy (thankfully so) to power levels, how much a punch would hurt, how much muscle mass contributes to this and that fight, etc. I honestly cannot get to a place intellectually where I believe Spidey holds back all of the time. Yes, he’s been shown to do that against regular burglars and the like, but there are stories where his thought bubbles show he’s hitting certain opponents with everything they’ve got.
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