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Post by Ricky Jackson on Mar 21, 2024 14:02:17 GMT -5
Just finished reading (ok, mostly skimming) Amazing Adventures/Adult Fantasy/Fantasy 1-15. Other than great art from Ditko, the curiosity of the first expressly stated mutant character in Marvel history (Tad Carter) in issue 14 (pre-dating X Men by a year), and a certain story about a Spider-Man in issue 15, not much to single out. Anyway, in the last issue there is a one page text piece stating that the mag would continue with more Spider-Man stories going forward. Obviously this didn't happen, and ASM #1 didn't appear for about 6 months. Lee always told the story that he knew issue 15 was going to be the last one and that Spider-Man was just thrown in there because he wanted to publish that story before the book was canceled. Then, when the sales figures came in for issue 15 several months later, Goodman ordered Lee to come up with a permanent Spidey book. However, the inclusion of the aforementioned text piece in issue 15 suggests that, at least when the book went to press, Amazing Fantasy, and the Spider-Man feature, were going to be continuing the following month (or 2 months if it was bimonthly, not sure). So my question is, when was it really decided to cancel Amazing Fantasy? And why was it after plans for future issues and a new direction, featuring presumably Spider-Man as the lead feature, were already set in motion?
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 21, 2024 14:36:16 GMT -5
Just finished reading (ok, mostly skimming) Amazing Adventures/Adult Fantasy/Fantasy 1-15. Other than great art from Ditko, the curiosity of the first expressly stated mutant character in Marvel history (Tad Carter) in issue 14 (pre-dating X Men by a year), and a certain story about a Spider-Man in issue 15, not much to single out. Anyway, in the last issue there is a one page text piece stating that the mag would continue with more Spider-Man stories going forward. Obviously this didn't happen, and ASM #1 didn't appear for about 6 months. Lee always told the story that he knew issue 15 was going to be the last one and that Spider-Man was just thrown in there because he wanted to publish that story before the book was canceled. Then, when the sales figures came in for issue 15 several months later, Goodman ordered Lee to come up with a permanent Spidey book. However, the inclusion of the aforementioned text piece in issue suggests that, at least when the book went to press, Amazing Fantasy, and the Spider-Man feature, were going to be continuing the following month (or 2 months if it was bimonthly, not sure). So my question is, when was it really decided to cancel Amazing Fantasy? And why was it after plans for future issues and new direction, featuring presumably Spider-Man as the lead feature, were already set in motion? I just quickly looked at Mike's Amazing Newsstand (RIP and thanks, Mike). You are right, AAF was a bi-monthly. The Spider-Man issue went on sale in June '62, thus its next issue would have been on sale in August. Two-Gun Kid # 60, with the character being reinvented after being cancelled in January of '61, took its place on the schedule. maybe they were buying time for both sales figures and getting a new title ready? If you look at all the covers for Marvel during these months, the "superhero" titles really don't look like DC's covers, which loaded up on all kinds of super-types. Marvel is still apparently uncertain about going too deeply into marketing traditional super-heroes. All you have at Marvel are Thor, who doesn't wear traditional superhero garb, the FF, who also don't quite fit the pattern (more like the Challengers of the Unknown, who were still sporting their original purple jumpsuits) and Ant-Man, who might easily be mistaken for a spaceman and was usually almost a tiny afterthought on covers that looked more like they were from the monster era of Tales to Astonish. Even in December, when Spider-Man 1 comes out, and Iron Man shows up, the Tales of Suspense covers on 39 and 40 could easily be seen as fitting in with the s-f monster books. I think they must have been going a bit slowly into superheroes. They waited a while, I suppose for the sales figures on AAF 15, use the FF in Spider-Man 1 and the book is a bi-monthly. Neither a crossover nor a bi-monthly schedule is out of the ordinary back then, but the latter especially shows how tentatively Marvel was moving into obvious superheroes. I mean, they couldn't have cancelled or put on hiatus one of the teen humor books? I'm guessing they must have been mainstays of circulation. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 21, 2024 16:07:47 GMT -5
Just finished reading (ok, mostly skimming) Amazing Adventures/Adult Fantasy/Fantasy 1-15. Other than great art from Ditko, the curiosity of the first expressly stated mutant character in Marvel history (Tad Carter) in issue 14 (pre-dating X Men by a year), and a certain story about a Spider-Man in issue 15, not much to single out. Anyway, in the last issue there is a one page text piece stating that the mag would continue with more Spider-Man stories going forward. Obviously this didn't happen, and ASM #1 didn't appear for about 6 months. Lee always told the story that he knew issue 15 was going to be the last one and that Spider-Man was just thrown in there because he wanted to publish that story before the book was canceled. Then, when the sales figures came in for issue 15 several months later, Goodman ordered Lee to come up with a permanent Spidey book. However, the inclusion of the aforementioned text piece in issue 15 suggests that, at least when the book went to press, Amazing Fantasy, and the Spider-Man feature, were going to be continuing the following month (or 2 months if it was bimonthly, not sure). So my question is, when was it really decided to cancel Amazing Fantasy? And why was it after plans for future issues and a new direction, featuring presumably Spider-Man as the lead feature, were already set in motion? Although I don't have time to track down the exact details, I believe the decision to cancel Amazing Fantasy came after issue #15 went to press. Given that the contents of the first two issues of Amazing Spider-Man were pretty obviously meant to appear in Amazing Fantasy #16-19, Goodman probably lowered the boom around the time #16 would've been in production, catching Stan off guard. It then took an extra month and the cancellation of Linda Carter, Student Nurse (remember, Marvel's distributor, the DC-owned Independent News, put a cap on the number of titles Marvel could release per month) for AS-M to be put on the schedule. The book went monthly once the bi-monthly Incredible Hulk got the axe.
Cei-U! I summon the tentative answer!
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2024 16:41:53 GMT -5
Just finished reading (ok, mostly skimming) Amazing Adventures/Adult Fantasy/Fantasy 1-15. Other than great art from Ditko, the curiosity of the first expressly stated mutant character in Marvel history (Tad Carter) in issue 14 (pre-dating X Men by a year), and a certain story about a Spider-Man in issue 15, not much to single out. Anyway, in the last issue there is a one page text piece stating that the mag would continue with more Spider-Man stories going forward. Obviously this didn't happen, and ASM #1 didn't appear for about 6 months. Lee always told the story that he knew issue 15 was going to be the last one and that Spider-Man was just thrown in there because he wanted to publish that story before the book was canceled. Then, when the sales figures came in for issue 15 several months later, Goodman ordered Lee to come up with a permanent Spidey book. However, the inclusion of the aforementioned text piece in issue 15 suggests that, at least when the book went to press, Amazing Fantasy, and the Spider-Man feature, were going to be continuing the following month (or 2 months if it was bimonthly, not sure). So my question is, when was it really decided to cancel Amazing Fantasy? And why was it after plans for future issues and a new direction, featuring presumably Spider-Man as the lead feature, were already set in motion? Although I don't have time to track down the exact details, I believe the decision to cancel Amazing Fantasy came after issue #15 went to press. Given that the contents of the first two issues of Amazing Spider-Man were pretty obviously meant to appear in Amazing Fantasy #16-19, Goodman probably lowered the boom around the time #16 would've been in production, catching Stan off guard. It then took an extra month and the cancellation of Linda Carter, Student Nurse (remember, Marvel's distributor, the DC-owned Independent News, put a cap on the number of titles Marvel could release per month) for AS-M to be put on the schedule. The book went monthly once the bi-monthly Incredible Hulk got the axe.
Cei-U! I summon the tentative answer!
I kind of wondered if it might have been even more last minute, given the whole issue of registering a new title for 2nd Class Mailing privileges. My scans are from reprints, so I have no way of knowing if Amazing Spider-Man #1 contained a notice that said anything about being formerly Amazing Fantasy. That was usually the reason for carrying forward numbering, like with Tales of Suspense and Iron Man and Captain America, or Charlton's level of numbering insanity and the name would seem to suggest a deliberate link, except they start with issue #1. Given how cheap Goodman was (and the distribution situation), it would seem strange to spend the money on registering the new title, instead of continuing the old, under a new name, as with Journey into Mystery and Thor. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 21, 2024 16:56:28 GMT -5
Not sure how much difference it makes but the publisher of Amazing Fantasy was Atlas Magazines while Amazing Spider-Man's was Non-Pareil Publishing so they would've been considered two distinct titles rather than the latter being a direct descendant of the former.
Cei-U!
I summon the messed-up family tree!
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Post by zaku on Mar 22, 2024 5:32:15 GMT -5
Right now I'm googling like there's no tomorrow. I HAVE TO FIND OUT. Ok, before being a columnist, he was self-employed as a freelance promoter/public relations man! It happened in Action Comics #421 (1973) I haven't thought about it in... I don't know... literally decades? Just found a scan  You know, from a narrative standpoint it makes sense. He's probably never had a "real" job in his life. And he never gave me the impression that he was born to be an entrepreneur. At least Bruce Wayne gave the impression that he was at least a little involved in his business. Oliver was just happy as long as there was money to make boomerang arrows or boxing glove arrows. Edit: this seems to me a borderline toxic relationship... (Yes I know it was a different time etc etc) |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 22, 2024 21:57:08 GMT -5
Ok, before being a columnist, he was self-employed as a freelance promoter/public relations man! It happened in Action Comics #421 (1973) I haven't thought about it in... I don't know... literally decades? Just found a scan You know, from a narrative standpoint it makes sense. He's probably never had a "real" job in his life. And he never gave me the impression that he was born to be an entrepreneur. At least Bruce Wayne gave the impression that he was at least a little involved in his business. Oliver was just happy as long as there was money to make boomerang arrows or boxing glove arrows. Edit: this seems to me a borderline toxic relationship... (Yes I know it was a different time etc etc) Call me a neanderthal; but I don't see what is "borderline toxic." They are a romantic couple, in a committed relationship and he shows some affection, while talking about how he could build a new career, by promoting her flower shop and improving her business. I would say the last panel shows a cowardice on DC's part to make it a deeper relationship, though, at the same time, having Dinah being a little wary of something involving a long term commitment, with a guy who fights criminals and super villains, is reasonable. Does he cause her to break a pot? Yep. Did he ask her if she wants him to try to promote her store? Nope. Could he stand to communicate better with her? Most certainly. That's probably part of her reservations. That's average relationship stuff. Toxic, to me, suggests being physically or mentally abusive, controlling, treating her as a possession, completely ignoring her desires at every turn. I wouldn't quite put Ollie's actions, within the context of these few panels, in that category, as much as he's being kind f self-centered here, though he is also thinking about using his idea of a career to help Dinah, with her business, which suggests he is giving her success thought, too. Ollie is caught up in a moment, The thing to do, if Dinah objects, is to have her lower the boom on him, later in the story and have him learn a lesson. She doesn't seem to have an objection, so much, as a reservation about their relationship, to admit to herself she loves this man, but there are issues. Superman and Lois, especially in the 50s, got pretty toxic. Hank and Jan were a volatile mix, every time they went to the "Hank has mental issues" well. Scott and Jean....I'd go there, long before Black Canary and Green Arrow. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Mar 23, 2024 2:36:53 GMT -5
Just found a scan You know, from a narrative standpoint it makes sense. He's probably never had a "real" job in his life. And he never gave me the impression that he was born to be an entrepreneur. At least Bruce Wayne gave the impression that he was at least a little involved in his business. Oliver was just happy as long as there was money to make boomerang arrows or boxing glove arrows. Edit: this seems to me a borderline toxic relationship... (Yes I know it was a different time etc etc) Call me a neanderthal; but I don't see what is "borderline toxic." They are a romantic couple, in a committed relationship and he shows some affection, while talking about how he could build a new career, by promoting her flower shop and improving her business. I would say the last panel shows a cowardice on DC's part to make it a deeper relationship, though, at the same time, having Dinah being a little wary of something involving a long term commitment, with a guy who fights criminals and super villains, is reasonable. Does he cause her to break a pot? Yep. Did he ask her if she wants him to try to promote her store? Nope. Could he stand to communicate better with her? Most certainly. That's probably part of her reservations. That's average relationship stuff. Toxic, to me, suggests being physically or mentally abusive, controlling, treating her as a possession, completely ignoring her desires at every turn. I wouldn't quite put Ollie's actions, within the context of these few panels, in that category, as much as he's being kind f self-centered here, though he is also thinking about using his idea of a career to help Dinah, with her business, which suggests he is giving her success thought, too. Ollie is caught up in a moment, The thing to do, if Dinah objects, is to have her lower the boom on him, later in the story and have him learn a lesson. She doesn't seem to have an objection, so much, as a reservation about their relationship, to admit to herself she loves this man, but there are issues. Superman and Lois, especially in the 50s, got pretty toxic. Hank and Jan were a volatile mix, every time they went to the "Hank has mental issues" well. Scott and Jean....I'd go there, long before Black Canary and Green Arrow. Yeah, I thought the same thing. There's nothing toxic about the relationship as shown in those panels at all. A bit corny, yes. Toxic, no. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
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Post by Confessor on Mar 23, 2024 2:48:12 GMT -5
I have a Wolverine question. In the opening pages of Giant-Size X-Men #1, when Wolverine first appears, one of Claremont's captions says "The agent cipher-known as Weapon X...but better known to us as -- The Wolverine!"
My question is, would Wolverine actually have been that well known to your average Marvel reader or X-Men fan on 1975 when that comic came out? I know he had appeared in a couple of issues of The Hulk the year before (#180 and 181), but had he been seen anywhere else prior to Giant-Size X-Men #1?
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Post by Rob Allen on Mar 23, 2024 3:51:00 GMT -5
I have a Wolverine question. In the opening pages of Giant-Size X-Men #1, when Wolverine first appears, one of Claremont's captions says "The agent cipher-known as Weapon X...but better known to us as -- The Wolverine!" My question is, would Wolverine actually have been that well known to your average Marvel reader or X-Men fan on 1975 when that comic came out? I know he had appeared in a couple of issues of The Hulk the year before (#180 and 181), but had he been seen anywhere else prior to Giant-Size X-Men #1? No, he hadn't. There's a note in the GCD's index for Hulk #182 that says Wolvie's next appearance was in Giant-Size X-Men #1. That Hulk issue was on the stands in early September 1974, which was when I started college, and GSXM #1 was in late February 1975, the beginning of my second semester. That's enough time for them to have known that readers liked the character. I know I remembered him when I read GSXM #1. |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 23, 2024 4:16:03 GMT -5
I have a Wolverine question. In the opening pages of Giant-Size X-Men #1, when Wolverine first appears, one of Claremont's captions says "The agent cipher-known as Weapon X...but better known to us as -- The Wolverine!" (...) It's often forgotten and/or overlooked, but Len Wein wrote GS X-men #1. (He's also credited as co-plotter for issues 94 and 95.) |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
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Post by Confessor on Mar 23, 2024 4:29:08 GMT -5
I have a Wolverine question. In the opening pages of Giant-Size X-Men #1, when Wolverine first appears, one of Claremont's captions says "The agent cipher-known as Weapon X...but better known to us as -- The Wolverine!" (...) It's often forgotten and/or overlooked, but Len Wein wrote GS X-men #1. (He's also credited as co-plotter for issues 94 and 95.) Oops! Yep, you're right. My bad. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 23, 2024 6:02:25 GMT -5
I have a Wolverine question. In the opening pages of Giant-Size X-Men #1, when Wolverine first appears, one of Claremont's captions says "The agent cipher-known as Weapon X...but better known to us as -- The Wolverine!" (...) It's often forgotten and/or overlooked, but Len Wein wrote GS X-men #1. (He's also credited as co-plotter for issues 94 and 95.) Claremont made his name on X-men but Wein is co creator of the new X-men and not him. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 23, 2024 6:05:45 GMT -5
Ok, before being a columnist, he was self-employed as a freelance promoter/public relations man! It happened in Action Comics #421 (1973) I haven't thought about it in... I don't know... literally decades? Just found a scan I recognize the inks as being Giordano, but is the penciller Bob Brown ? |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 23, 2024 7:19:43 GMT -5
I recognize the inks as being Giordano, but is the penciller Bob Brown ? No, it's Sal Amendola.
Cei-U! I summon my handy-dandy Action Comics index!
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