Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212 
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Post by Confessor on Mar 24, 2024 6:30:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought the same thing. There's nothing toxic about the relationship as shown in those panels at all. A bit corny, yes. Toxic, no. In a following issue he says she should close the shop because he has enough money for both and then he don't understand why she doesn't accept his offer and she wants to be financially independent. He really don't. For someone always portrayed as the "progressive" hero par excellence he has some ideas about gender roles firmly rooted in the 1950s. Which still doesn't make it a toxic relationship. Maybe GA is still a bit old fashioned (though in 1973, such ideas, with their chivalrous intent, would still have been fairly widespread), but that doesn't mean it's a toxic relationship. As for GA being "progressive", there was still plenty of good ol' fashioned sexism in even the most progressive corners of the 60s and 70s counterculture (feminist author Germaine Greer has written at length about this). But that doesn't mean that the men in that movement weren't also very progressive by the standards of their times. The civil rights movement, environmentalism, gay rights, second wave feminism, and animal rights activism all started with the (often maligned) Baby Boomer generation, but there would've still been plenty of cool, right on guys in that movement who would have assumed that their "chicks" would stay home and look after the kids. Societal norms die hard, I guess, even in an era of great progressiveness. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 24, 2024 6:55:32 GMT -5
Those GA issues following the Neal Adam’s rendition seemed to show a flawed “ progressive “ that also had bouts of being a hypocrite. You know, like the rest of us. Yeah, absolutely. At this point a question. They often showed that the opposite of Green Arrow would be the "conservative" Hawkman. I admit that I have read practically nothing about Hawkman pre or post Crisis, but how did he acquire this "political" fame? Just because he's a kind of cop? I don't remember Hawkman being overly conservative, I thought it was just that they clashed. I have a decent amount of Satellite era JLA, but most of the stories are forgettable. |
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Post by foxley on Mar 24, 2024 8:09:42 GMT -5
Yeah, absolutely. At this point a question. They often showed that the opposite of Green Arrow would be the "conservative" Hawkman. I admit that I have read practically nothing about Hawkman pre or post Crisis, but how did he acquire this "political" fame? Just because he's a kind of cop? I don't remember Hawkman being overly conservative, I thought it was just that they clashed. I have a decent amount of Satellite era JLA, but most of the stories are forgettable. The "conservative" angle may have come up when they were both appearing in World's Finest. I think the idea was that Hawkman was a 'space cop' so he instinctively came down on the side of law and order. There was one story that was told in two parts:one in the Hawkman feature and one in the Green Arrow. A fugitive comes to Earth pursued by a lawman from his home planet. Hawkman teams up with the lawman while Green Arrow aids the fugitive. It is ultimately revealed that they are an intergalactic version of Jean Valjean and Inspector Javert, and the fugitive's crime was the equivalent of stealing bread. That story certainly highlighted their conservative and progressive mindsets. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 24, 2024 8:52:06 GMT -5
I don't remember Hawkman being overly conservative, I thought it was just that they clashed. I have a decent amount of Satellite era JLA, but most of the stories are forgettable. The "conservative" angle may have come up when they were both appearing in World's Finest. I think the idea was that Hawkman was a 'space cop' so he instinctively came down on the side of law and order. There was one story that was told in two parts:one in the Hawkman feature and one in the Green Arrow. A fugitive comes to Earth pursued by a lawman from his home planet. Hawkman teams up with the lawman while Green Arrow aids the fugitive. It is ultimately revealed that they are an intergalactic version of Jean Valjean and Inspector Javert, and the fugitive's crime was the equivalent of stealing bread. That story certainly highlighted their conservative and progressive mindsets. It's amazing how many times that plot is used. One of my favorite World's Finest stories involves a similar story.  |
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Post by zaku on Mar 24, 2024 9:07:32 GMT -5
Yeah, absolutely. At this point a question. They often showed that the opposite of Green Arrow would be the "conservative" Hawkman. I admit that I have read practically nothing about Hawkman pre or post Crisis, but how did he acquire this "political" fame? Just because he's a kind of cop? I don't remember Hawkman being overly conservative, I thought it was just that they clashed. I have a decent amount of Satellite era JLA, but most of the stories are forgettable. I googled this and and a good number of cartoons where they argue about this or that have appeared. They even joked about it in Kevin Smith's Green Arrow series.   |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2024 10:33:26 GMT -5
So, two things converged: the idea to create a Canadian hero, to boost sales in Canada, leading to the creation of Wolverine, and an international team to do the same in other markets, which Len ended up with the assignment, after the initial writer fell through, and he put Wolverine in there. Roy might have intended Wolverine to be there, after his debut, or that might have just been the first spark to do more with heroes from outside the US. I've often read that this X-Men team was made "international" to boost sales in non-US markets, but I'm perplexed. In this incarnation there was a Russian (and I'm sure that being caught in the 70s' Soviet Union with an American comic could lead to trouble), an African (poor Ororo represented an entire continent and I'm not sure that American comics in Nigeria or Uganda were going very well. Or if they knew they existed.) and a German. And the first image we see of Germany is superstitious villagers with torches and pitchforks straight out of "Young Frankstein." Yeah, great strategy to conquer the local market. Goes over well in the UK and France, though!  |
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Post by MDG on Mar 26, 2024 8:01:33 GMT -5
Take a look at this cover, under the price tag...  A quick look at Mike's Newsstand doesn't show it anywhere else. Anyone have any ideas about why it's on this cover? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 26, 2024 8:27:10 GMT -5
Take a look at this cover, under the price tag... A quick look at Mike's Newsstand doesn't show it anywhere else. Anyone have any ideas about why it's on this cover? Well lookee here. |
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 26, 2024 13:20:19 GMT -5
I once read a reprint of The Savage Sword of Conan. I recall a cliffhanger - or was it a mid-story “cliffhanger” - where a giant rock monster appeared, not exactly unlike The Thing in its look. I’d like to revisit it. Anyone know what issue I could be referring to? (When I say giant, probably no taller than 100 feet)
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Post by zaku on Mar 26, 2024 16:07:47 GMT -5
Take a look at this cover, under the price tag... A quick look at Mike's Newsstand doesn't show it anywhere else. Anyone have any ideas about why it's on this cover? When is the first time in DC comics they say that if time travelers find themselves in a time where a version of them exists, the formers become a ghost? |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 27, 2024 11:34:27 GMT -5
Re: Hawkman and Green Arrow-Smith and others are grossly exaggerating the political element of the squabbles between GA and Hawkman. Most of the time, in JLA, it was more of a personality clash, with Hawkman beingmore reserved, more respectful of authority, and more about discipline and procedure, while GA was more brash, apt to bend the rules to the breaking point and more than a little hot-headed. Generally, it was pretty badly written, to create conflict within the group and it rarely worked well. Flash took over that role, a bit, on Conway's stuff, especially after they killed off Iris (she got better).
It was hardly the DC Comics version of Crossfire.
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 27, 2024 18:51:07 GMT -5
Take a look at this cover, under the price tag... A quick look at Mike's Newsstand doesn't show it anywhere else. Anyone have any ideas about why it's on this cover? Slam's link isn't working for me at the moment so he may have already answered the question, but I did notice that the cover for Superman #157 also has an early Superman image placed under the price on its cover (I believe it's the same iconic image used for the back cover of Superman #1). I suspect that this was due to Superman's approaching silver anniversary. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 27, 2024 22:51:49 GMT -5
Take a look at this cover, under the price tag... A quick look at Mike's Newsstand doesn't show it anywhere else. Anyone have any ideas about why it's on this cover? Slam's link isn't working for me at the moment so he may have already answered the question, but I did notice that the cover for Superman #157 also has an early Superman image placed under the price on its cover (I believe it's the same iconic image used for the back cover of Superman #1). I suspect that this was due to Superman's approaching silver anniversary. The link demonstrates it was to keep the trademark alive on the image, which had been used previously and was used for an alternate cover, in the early 8os (or very late 70s). |
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Post by MDG on Mar 28, 2024 8:44:04 GMT -5
Slam's link isn't working for me at the moment so he may have already answered the question, but I did notice that the cover for Superman #157 also has an early Superman image placed under the price on its cover (I believe it's the same iconic image used for the back cover of Superman #1). I suspect that this was due to Superman's approaching silver anniversary. The link demonstrates it was to keep the trademark alive on the image, which had been used previously and was used for an alternate cover, in the early 8os (or very late 70s). More specifically, it was done to keep the "Superhombre" name in trademark. They did it again in a 1985 variant to renew the copyright. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 28, 2024 10:14:54 GMT -5
And here's the cover for Superman #157 with its Superman circa 1939 image beneath the company logo. There's no 'Superhombre' text in that one making me wonder if they simply forgot to include it here and had to redo it on the later issue of Adventure Comics.  |
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