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Post by Farrar on Mar 5, 2017 23:17:25 GMT -5
Those were the only issues of Wonder Woman edited by Julius Schwartz. Actually Schwartz continued on as WW's editor for a few issues after that "JLA/Twelve Labors" arc ended. He's the one who brought back Steve Trevor, whom I like a lot (though I suspect I may be in the minority on that one... ) My first thought is Avengers in the 60s. After the Kooky Quartet, you had Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne rejoin, so Wasp and Scarlet Witch were both in the book for a period, then you had Black Widow as a hanger on for a bit when Pietro and Wanda left the stage for a while. As early as the mid-30s you had 2 female characters represented in the corner box... Black Widow remained a protagonist in the Avengers book even after Wanda and Pietro returned--in #36-#37 she fought alongside the team, which at the time comprised Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Hank Pym--and Scarlet Witch and Wasp. Then in #38 Natasha went off on her own super-secret SHIELD mission (and Herc began to appear with the team too) and she was a major player in the book for several issues, with that SHIELD arc wrapping up in #44. But for several issues there were three-count 'em-three costumed female characters appearing regularly in the book. Back when I was reading comics: The Metal Men comic included Tina and Nameless. Mike's shows that Nameless first appeared in MM #13, in 1965 (I started reading MM a couple of years later). Nameless remained a constant in the book for a few years. I don't know if the Inhumans are considered a "team", but if one considers them a team and not just a family unit, in late 1965 Crystal was introduced; so the Inhumans had Medusa and Crystal.Lorna Dane (later given the Polaris code name) was introduced in 1968's X-Men #49; she asked to join the team in #60 (1969), so the X-Men had Lorna and Marvel Girl. Although back then neither Lorna nor Havok actually did much fighting alongside the O5. But it was nice to see the team expanding its cast of charactes (though that didn't save it from being canceled back then). In 1969, the FF comic had both Sue and Crystal on the team as active members for a while. Lilith joined the Titans in TT #25 (1970), so the team had Wonder Girl (Donna) and Lilith.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 5, 2017 23:23:19 GMT -5
Regarding the old-age rule of super hero teams only having one token female full-time member: What were the earliest exceptions? Was Black Canary and WW both members simultaneously in All Star Comics? Any other exceptions from the Golden Age? What about the Silver Age? The Legion obviously had a few but then again it took a 26 member team to justify it.Having 2 females on the team for a very short period of time really does not count. Would you say the X-Men finally broke the rule when both Storm and Kitty Pryde were full members? This is dedicated to the Lady Liberators from The Avengers The Secret Six had two women among its members. Black Canary joined the JSA in #41 and appeared in quite a few adventures with Wonder Woman.
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Post by Farrar on Mar 5, 2017 23:24:48 GMT -5
How could I forget the Secret Six? One of my favorites back then!
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 5, 2017 23:32:10 GMT -5
I'll have to find it, but Joe Arul, later a writer, suggested in a letter to JLA (I'm guessng in 1968 or '69) that DC create an Amazon Brigade made up of Batgirl, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, and now I can't remember who else -- maybe Black Canary, and other female stars.
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Post by Farrar on Mar 5, 2017 23:45:16 GMT -5
^^^ Prince Hal, now that would have been interesting--a latter-day (and powered-up) Commandos team! Golden Age's Girl Commandos team, led by Pat Parker
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 23:48:51 GMT -5
For the record, I was never, ever was a fan of the Mod Version of Wonder Woman and beside that I was depressed when DC depowered her and changed everything about her. It's didn't sit me well and still bothered by DC Comics decision to do this. This totally caught me off guard and from this point on I've stopped reading it. AppendFor the Record, when a dear friend of mine showed me this panel that he downloaded and sent to me a year ago and this made me realize that they made Wonder Woman an ordinary mortal and that alone is one of the hardest thing for me to take and that alone made her association with the Justice League pretty much useless and still five members of the Justice League; Batman, Atom, Superman, The Flash, and Green Arrow are trying to convince her that you are still a friend and Superman will not accept her resignation from the team. This idea by DC Comics was one of the most shocking things that they did at the time of which I felt it was a grave injustice on the part of Wonder Woman's character and one of my darkest days of the Justice League of where there were no Wonder Woman around then. I don't know that it's true or not because I did not read Justice League until they put back on the Costume of Wonder Woman and powered her up then. That's why I never, ever really cared for this version of Diana Prince.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 6, 2017 0:18:49 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I looked it up on the GCD and it's true that after she officially left, she did turn up on the covers of subsequent issues until #75 when the Black Canary took over.Denny O'Neil wrote the story where WW left the JLA and he was writing the WW book so there was some co-ordination between the two. A small clarification: the WW on the JLA covers of the issues after #69 and before #75 was the Earth-2 Wonder Woman (JSA member)... and not the mod Diana Prince who'd quit the JLA. But mod Di did show up within a JLA story, she was in a few panels in #71 (issue in which J'onn J'onzz leaves the team). I was a huge fan of the mod WW and I remember being very annoyed when DC removed her from the JLA book. But I understood that it was necessary for what DC was doing at the time; it wouldn't do to have her appear regularly in the JLA book, because in her own book she was essentially being written as having no contact with, or connection to, the superhero world. Example: in one of her solo adventures she is racking her brain to come up with allies to help her defeat Ares' armies. She goes and requests help from the old characters of yore--legendary gods, knights, etc. Hello, what about your old JLA teammates, Di? And of course in #75 Black Canary was given brand new sonic powers in #75, to differentiate her power set from mod Di's--and Batgirl's for that matter. Loved the mod WW comic of the late 60's. The earlier Wonder Woman stories from the 1960's were unreadable even when I was 10 years old. All the imaginative (and kinky) components that made the Golden Age version enjoyable were long gone and we were left with silly and infantile characters like Mer-boy and Wonder Tot and a totally emasculated clown named Steve Trevor. Sekowsky's Wonder Woman was off the wall ginchy
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 6, 2017 2:25:51 GMT -5
Regarding the old-age rule of super hero teams only having one token female full-time member: What were the earliest exceptions? Was Black Canary and WW both members simultaneously in All Star Comics? Any other exceptions from the Golden Age? What about the Silver Age? The Legion obviously had a few but then again it took a 26 member team to justify it.Having 2 females on the team for a very short period of time really does not count. Would you say the X-Men finally broke the rule when both Storm and Kitty Pryde were full members? This is dedicated to the Lady Liberators from The Avengers My first thought is Avengers in the 60s. After the Kooky Quartet, you had Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne rejoin, so Wasp and Scarlet Witch were both in the book for a period, then you had Black Widow as a hanger on for a bit when Pietro and Wanda left the stage for a while. As early as the mid-30s you had 2 female characters represented in the corner box... You also had the Teet Titans revival in the 70s that had Wonder Girl, Bumble Bee and Harlequin all part of the team, so there are examples of it before Claremont's X-Men had Jean Grey and Storm at the center of the team (or the later Storm/Kitty combo you mentioned). -M I believe the earliest team to regularly feature two female members was the JSA, where Wonder Woman and Black Canary served simultaneously for a time in the late 40s.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 6, 2017 5:57:55 GMT -5
The Inhuman's had Crystal and Medusa unless you just consider them a family rather than a team.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 6, 2017 10:04:02 GMT -5
Colletta's inks over the King Makes you wonder how much Kirby detail Colletta erased before inking. That was a common complaint against him I've heard this repeatedly too, and you should hear Neal Adams talk about the guy and why Marvel kept giving him work (I can't repeat that stuff here), but I then wonder why, when Kirby moved to DC and fought to have all sorts of creative control over his books, he brought Colletta with him.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 6, 2017 10:10:55 GMT -5
Regarding the old-age rule of super hero teams only having one token female full-time member: While some comics already cited were breaking this mold in the 1960s, it's worth noting that the Teen Titans were still struggling with this as late as 1972, when a second female character and an African American had joined the team, but while they were sometimes shown on the cover art, they never made their way to the roster always shown along the lefthand side:
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 6, 2017 11:29:05 GMT -5
Makes you wonder how much Kirby detail Colletta erased before inking. That was a common complaint against him I've heard this repeatedly too, and you should hear Neal Adams talk about the guy and why Marvel kept giving him work (I can't repeat that stuff here), but I then wonder why, when Kirby moved to DC and fought to have all sorts of creative control over his books, he brought Colletta with him. Colletta was already doing romance comic work for DC as of 1968. Kirby might have felt being paired with an inker fans were used to seeing with him would make the transition smoother. But soon enough, Kirby requested Colletta off his books and used Mike Royer instead
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Post by Red Oak Kid on Mar 6, 2017 16:53:29 GMT -5
I've heard this repeatedly too, and you should hear Neal Adams talk about the guy and why Marvel kept giving him work (I can't repeat that stuff here), but I then wonder why, when Kirby moved to DC and fought to have all sorts of creative control over his books, he brought Colletta with him. Colletta was already doing romance comic work for DC as of 1968. Kirby might have felt being paired with an inker fans were used to seeing with him would make the transition smoother. But soon enough, Kirby requested Colletta off his books and used Mike Royer instead Mark Evanier has written extensively about this. The short version is that Kirby did not want his move to DC to result in his inkers losing work. This is the main reason Kirby wanted Colletta to keep inking him. It was only when Evanier brought it to Kirby's attention that Colletta was cutting corners on his inking, that Kirby agreed to drop him. Plus, Royer was also based on the West Coast(Colletta was in NYC) so it streamlined the production process.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 6, 2017 22:43:31 GMT -5
For the record, I was never, ever was a fan of the Mod Version of Wonder Woman and beside that I was depressed when DC depowered her and changed everything about her. It's didn't sit me well and still bothered by DC Comics decision to do this. This totally caught me off guard and from this point on I've stopped reading it. AppendFor the Record, when a dear friend of mine showed me this panel that he downloaded and sent to me a year ago and this made me realize that they made Wonder Woman an ordinary mortal and that alone is one of the hardest thing for me to take and that alone made her association with the Justice League pretty much useless and still five members of the Justice League; Batman, Atom, Superman, The Flash, and Green Arrow are trying to convince her that you are still a friend and Superman will not accept her resignation from the team. This idea by DC Comics was one of the most shocking things that they did at the time of which I felt it was a grave injustice on the part of Wonder Woman's character and one of my darkest days of the Justice League of where there were no Wonder Woman around then. I don't know that it's true or not because I did not read Justice League until they put back on the Costume of Wonder Woman and powered her up then. That's why I never, ever really cared for this version of Diana Prince. I actually liked the early stuff, after she was given the Mod makeover. The early issues have some excellent writing and brought an energy to the book that had been missing. The Mike Sekowsky artwork was fantastic, as concentrating on one character let him strut his stuff better than trying to cram all of the JLAers into a panel. I also enjoyed the whole Emma Peel feel. However, it wore out its welcome long before it ended. There are some interesting stories in there, including some from sci-fi author Samuel R Delaney. There are also some really weird ones, like "Them." Thing was, I didn't think the book was any better when they gave her back her powers and costume. I read the odd issue, now and again, over time, time and there were good ones; but, a lot of bad ones, too. The Perez revamp had been about a decade overdue. Truth be told, I always thought her Golden Age adventures were better than Silver or Bronze. Kinkiness aside, they were a bit more lively and fanciful, and a heck of a lot more entertaining. I think the fantasy element suited it more, much like the classic Captain Marvel stories. I thought the same of the tv series; it was fun when set in the 40s, kind of boring when set in the present. Nazis always trump generic terrorists and crooks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 23:48:44 GMT -5
codystarbuckThanks for your in-depth write up here and I just find the whole Emma Peel look for her is very difficult one to bear and having said that - I have issues with it. You are right about the art in general and the stories were a bit weird in my taste and I just find her in a pantsuit one of the oddest thing that I ever saw in a comic book. Thanks for sharing it and I do understand what you are saying here. I prefer the Golden Age Wonder Woman the best and the some of the stuff in the Silver Age as well. I did manage a peek in the Bronze Age and that age wasn't as good as the Bronze and Silver Age of Comics. I'm glad you are a fan of Lynda Carter TV Series when it was set in 40's.
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