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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 9:54:38 GMT -5
Do heroic fictional characters become more successful because of tragedy as part of their origin? Examples: Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, The Lone Ranger. Ones w/o tragedy: Green Lantern, FF, The Green Hornet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 14:17:46 GMT -5
Maybe so since everyone can relate to and sympathize to a tragic event that makes a person stronger. Wonder Woman & the Flash have been widely successful without a tragic origin, so perhaps it doesn't matter? The X-Men are mutants and have no tragic origin issues, except for Wolverine getting his adamantium skeleton in a very painful manner.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 16:38:11 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that Superman has the worst origin tragedy of any superhero? Hard to top your entire birth planet being destroyed. Maybe it would be harder to decide who has the 2nd worst origin tragedy??  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 16:46:49 GMT -5
Maybe so since everyone can relate to and sympathize to a tragic event that makes a person stronger. Wonder Woman & the Flash have been widely successful without a tragic origin, so perhaps it doesn't matter? The X-Men are mutants and have no tragic origin issues, except for Wolverine getting his adamantium skeleton in a very painful manner. But WW & Flash were never as popular as Superman & Batman plus DC made Flash more tragic in the last few years. And as far as the X-Men? Being hated & feared as mutants has an element of tragedy associated with it. They are alienated from society. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 16:52:08 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that Superman has the worst origin tragedy of any superhero? Hard to top your entire birth planet being destroyed. Maybe it would be harder to decide who has the 2nd worst origin tragedy?? I agree. Family killed (Batman)? Thrown out of time (Capt America)? Being an outcast from your people (Sub Mariner/X-Men)?
Martian Manhunter - lost his people & was "trapped" on another world.
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Post by dupersuper on Sept 25, 2015 17:28:37 GMT -5
Do heroic fictional characters become more successful because of tragedy as part of their origin? Examples: Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, The Lone Ranger. Ones w/o tragedy: Green Lantern, FF, The Green Hornet. Hal has the dead dad thing (plus dead Abin Sur giving him the ring), and I'd say at least Thing in FF is tragic. |
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Post by dupersuper on Sept 25, 2015 17:29:44 GMT -5
DC made Flash more tragic Ugh, don't remind me. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 19:22:02 GMT -5
Maybe so since everyone can relate to and sympathize to a tragic event that makes a person stronger. Wonder Woman & the Flash have been widely successful without a tragic origin, so perhaps it doesn't matter? The X-Men are mutants and have no tragic origin issues, except for Wolverine getting his adamantium skeleton in a very painful manner. But WW & Flash were never as popular as Superman & Batman plus DC made Flash more tragic in the last few years. And as far as the X-Men? Being hated & feared as mutants has an element of tragedy associated with it. They are alienated from society. I only count the Silver Age origin of Flash & that wasn't tragic. lol  Yeah, I realize what you are saying about the X-Men, but I thought we were strictly talking about origins here, the being feared and hated as mutants aspect isn't really related to an origin, unless you want to get technical and say their birth was the origin, but nothing tragic about that. Since mutant powers normally manifest in later teen years I suppose we can say that could be the origin point and could result in a tragic circumstance, especially if the mutant is unable to control their abilities and accidentally kills someone. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Sept 26, 2015 2:17:36 GMT -5
Maybe so since everyone can relate to and sympathize to a tragic event that makes a person stronger. Wonder Woman & the Flash have been widely successful without a tragic origin, so perhaps it doesn't matter? The X-Men are mutants and have no tragic origin issues, except for Wolverine getting his adamantium skeleton in a very painful manner. Plenty of X-Men had tragic origins, just to pick a few of the biggest characters: Cyclops: lost is parents, grew up in an orphanage (didn't even get a nice adoptive family like Superman and Spider-Man), brain damage forces him to wear glasses all the time. Jean: Best friend died, she makes telepathic connection and she goes into a coma. Xavier: dead father, abusive stepfather and the wheelchair of course. Storm: Dead parents (this is getting a theme with superheroes), buried alive beneath a destroyed building (causing her claustrophobia), homeless for most of her youth. Rogue and Nightcrawler are obvious. |
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Post by tingramretro on Sept 26, 2015 2:22:56 GMT -5
Captain Britain started out without a tragedy in his past, but Chris Claremont quickly gave him some murdered parents just so that he wouldn't feel out of place in the superhero club.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 7:02:50 GMT -5
Captain Britain started out without a tragedy in his past, but Chris Claremont quickly gave him some murdered parents just so that he wouldn't feel out of place in the superhero club. This still bothers me and I just wanted a superhero without one and Chris Claremont took out the fun of it! Ugghh! and more Ugghh! |
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Post by fanboystranger on Sept 26, 2015 9:52:26 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that Superman has the worst origin tragedy of any superhero? Hard to top your entire birth planet being destroyed. Maybe it would be harder to decide who has the 2nd worst origin tragedy?? I've always argued that with people who feel that Superman is an inherently "light" character. I mean, his origin involves the death of an entire civilization. However, what sets Superman apart is that he has been able to absorb that tragedy and move beyond it to live his life in his own manner. He's not motivated by his parents' wishes or revenge-- he is his own man, and he's motivated by doing the right thing because it is the right thing. He respects Krypton, he wishes he knew more of his birth parents and longs for them occasionally, but really, he is living his own life. |
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Post by tingramretro on Sept 26, 2015 10:06:51 GMT -5
Captain Britain started out without a tragedy in his past, but Chris Claremont quickly gave him some murdered parents just so that he wouldn't feel out of place in the superhero club. This still bothers me and I just wanted a superhero without one and Chris Claremont took out the fun of it! Ugghh! and more Ugghh! It still bothers me that Claremont decided he had to make Captain Britain's sister a mutant (ten years after she first appeared! Her psychic powers had never been attributed to her being a mutant until New Mutants Annual #2) and an X-Man when she'd previously had no real affinity with superheroing (her one brief previous attempt at it had been a disaster). |
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Post by batlaw on Sept 26, 2015 11:01:43 GMT -5
Tragedy isn't a necessity, but it helps. Tragedy infuses the elements of "victimization" and by extension "empowerment". Victimization increases the potential for relatability. And empowerment of victims has always been one of the most common, successful and popular themes of characters.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 26, 2015 12:15:13 GMT -5
I kind of prefer origins without tragedy. Barry Allen is a super-hero because it's the right thing to do and because he was inspired by comic books.
Why do current writers think you can only do right because you're trying to make up for some deficiency in their formative years? They can't just do the right thing.
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Yeah, I realize what you are saying about the X-Men, but I thought we were strictly talking about origins here, the being feared and hated as mutants aspect isn't really related to an origin, unless you want to get technical and say their birth was the origin, but nothing tragic about that. Since mutant powers normally manifest in later teen years I suppose we can say that could be the origin point and could result in a tragic circumstance, especially if the mutant is unable to control their abilities and accidentally kills someone. 
