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Post by Nowhere Man on Jan 5, 2016 11:20:37 GMT -5
That's the key. He based him on The Police-era Sting, not the less interesting, more corporate, version we got after that.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 11:43:26 GMT -5
That's the key. He based him on The Police-era Sting, not the less interesting, more corporate, version we got after that. LOL! That was funny. Seriously, I think we can safely assume, Sting was just reference to the artist, not that there would ever be any meta context involving the real Sting personna... It would'nt really make any sense if it did, since Constantine was a punk and Sting started out as a studio session musician (as did the whole of Police). But indeed, imagine a more corporate version of Constantine, would that be what the upcomming TV version of Lucifer so far seems to be?
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 14:48:13 GMT -5
Boba Fett
Never understood the cult around him. I barely noticed him in the movies, he had no charisma or presence, and yet he seems dearly loved by almost everybody, to the point he was often used in the comics, and I still fail to see the attraction...
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 5, 2016 15:06:55 GMT -5
That's the key. He based him on The Police-era Sting, not the less interesting, more corporate, version we got after that. LOL! That was funny. Seriously, I think we can safely assume, Sting was just reference to the artist, not that there would ever be any meta context involving the real Sting personna... It would'nt really make any sense if it did, since Constantine was a punk and Sting started out as a studio session musician (as did the whole of Police). But indeed, imagine a more corporate version of Constantine, would that be what the upcomming TV version of Lucifer so far seems to be? Sting didn't start out as a studio musician: he played with various jazz bands, including Last Exit, before forming the Police. Also, Andy Summers was in a variety of British R&B and psychedelic bands in the '60s, before working as a session musician in the early '70s, and Stewart Copeland was in Curved Air prior to The Police. Really, only Summers could accurately be termed a "studio musician". Also, at their inception, The Police were very punky sounding and as a result were lumped in with the whole London punk scene. Their 1977 debut single, "Fall Out", is very definitely a punk rock record and there are punk songs on the band's debut album, Outlandos d'Amour, too ("Next to You" for example). Of course, the band were musically much too proficient to really be a punk band, as many of the punk rock groups that they giged with disparagingly noted. The Police are/were clearly a new wave rock band with a heavy reggae influence, but the band's roots are undoubtedly found in punk rock.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 5, 2016 15:13:17 GMT -5
Boba FettNever understood the cult around him. I barely noticed him in the movies, he had no charisma or presence, and yet he seems dearly loved by almost everybody, to the point he was often used in the comics, and I still fail to see the attraction... The lack of information about him, his ruthless attitude, the fact that his reputation preceded him and his extremely cool looking costume (with Wookiee scalps hanging from it) is what fed the cult of Fett. I was 8 years old when The Empire Strikes Back came out and I loved him right from the get go. I even collected coupons and sent away for the Boba Fett action figure from Kenner before it was released into the shops. If you were as big a Star Wars fan as I was back then, I can't see how you could've failed to not have been fascinated by the character. Of course, the prequels and the attendant revelations about Jango Fett and the clone army etc totally ruined the character forever, in my view. But pre-21st Century, his appeal is obvious to me.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 5, 2016 15:17:55 GMT -5
The Police are/were clearly a new wave rock band with a heavy reggae influence, but the band's roots are undoubtedly found in punk rock. I enjoyed the Police back in the day, but as you detailed Confessor, they really were a jazz-oriented , progressive rock group that adopted the punk motif and dyed their hair matching blonde to be able to cash in on what was popular at that time. Their roots weren't punk, that was a front. They were not going to make any money if they actually stuck to their roots
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 15:21:05 GMT -5
For me and many, punk means "I don't know how to do it but hell if i'm not gonna do it anyways". Sting, Summers and Copeland were experienced musicians way before their debut 1977 single as The Police, as you noted, And when I said Sting was a session musician, yes, you're right, Summers was, but thanks to him, the three of them played on a few records as suession musicians, such as on the Eberhard Schoener wonderfull tune I linked a clip of. If Police were punk in any ways, htey were post-punk before punk even really started, embracing rock-steady and reggae influence before any other of the original UK punks, and doing it in proper recording studios with proper contracts and labels. It's not a bad thing at all, but The Police were never percieved as punks by the punks, quite the contrary, they were even misleadingly labeled as the "clean" The Clash. Except they started that style before, and were better at doing it. Then, sure, they went a little too clean in a way. Still a great band Oh do I love Rumble Fish' soundtrack!
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 15:26:17 GMT -5
Boba FettNever understood the cult around him. I barely noticed him in the movies, he had no charisma or presence, and yet he seems dearly loved by almost everybody, to the point he was often used in the comics, and I still fail to see the attraction... The lack of information about him, his ruthless attitude, the fact that his reputation preceded him and his extremely cool looking costume (with Wookiee scalps hanging from it) is what fed the cult of Fett. I was 8 years old when The Empire Strikes Back came out and I loved him right from the get go. I even collected coupons and sent away for the Boba Fett action figure from Kenner before it was released into the shops. If you were as big a Star Wars fan as I was back then, I can't see how you could've failed to not have been fascinated by the character. Of course, the prequels and the attendant revelations about Jango Fett and the clone army etc totally ruined the character forever, in my view. But pre-21st Century, his appeal is obvious to me. Fair enough, but how many lines did he have in ESB? For me, the intrinsic stiffness and emotionless character his costume gave him ruined any chance he had with me. We already had vador as a spooky faceless villain, and his helmet was cooler then Fett's, so as he really did much less and said nothing or maybe one line, it's difficult for me to have any kind of connexion with him. But that's me
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 5, 2016 15:27:26 GMT -5
The Police are/were clearly a new wave rock band with a heavy reggae influence, but the band's roots are undoubtedly found in punk rock. I enjoyed the Police back in the day, but as you detailed Confessor, they really were a jazz-oriented , progressive rock group that adopted the punk motif and dyed their hair matching blonde to be able to cash in on what was popular at that time. Their roots weren't punk, that was a front. They were not going to make any money if they actually stuck to their roots To be clear, I meant that the group called The Police has it's roots in the London punk scene, but yes, clearly the individual members that make up that band had their roots in jazz and prog/psychedelia. However, like many musicians at the time, I think that there was a genuine excitement felt by the group about the immediacy and excitement of punk. I've heard Summers and Copeland both say that, in the band's early days, they always wanted to play their songs faster and faster, but it was Sting who kept dragging them back and telling them to slow down. So, I think the band adopting punk rock stylings as a cynical career move is only half the story. There was at least some genuine love of punk music in that band and Sting must've had some sympathy with the genre to have created such post-punk or new wave anthems as "Can't Stand Losing You", "Message in a Bottle" and "Roxanne".
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 5, 2016 15:30:23 GMT -5
For me and many, punk means "I don't know how to do it but hell if i'm not gonna do it anyways". Sting, Summers and Copeland were experienced musicians way before their debut 1977 single as The Police, as you noted, And when I said Sting was a session musician, yes, you're right, Summers was, but thanks to him, the three of them played on a few records as suession musicians, such as on the Eberhard Schoener wonderfull tune I linked a clip of. If Police were punk in any ways, htey were post-punk before punk even really started, embracing rock-steady and reggae influence before any other of the original UK punks, and doing it in proper recording studios with proper contracts and labels. It's not a bad thing at all, but The Police were never percieved as punks by the punks, quite the contrary, they were even misleadingly labeled as the "clean" The Clash. Except they started that style before, and were better at doing it. Then, sure, they went a little too clean in a way. Still a great band Oh do I love Rumble Fish' soundtrack! I agree with the bolded part wholeheartedly and said as much in my initial post. But I just wanted to point out that, actually, the band were a part of the London class of '77, even if in reality they had a different pedigree.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 15:37:51 GMT -5
I absolutely agree, especially since marketing was a huge part of the '77 punk scene (I prefer the idea that punk started in 1973-4 with Cabaret Voltaire though ) But the real matter IMHO, is tat it is obvious Alan Moore was more then aware of this as he himself was close to many of those '77 punks, and the fact he chose to give a likeness of Stng to Constantine is only a testimony of how much he wanted to create a charcter that acted to be more than he actualy was, possibly
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 5, 2016 15:40:28 GMT -5
The lack of information about him, his ruthless attitude, the fact that his reputation preceded him and his extremely cool looking costume (with Wookiee scalps hanging from it) is what fed the cult of Fett. I was 8 years old when The Empire Strikes Back came out and I loved him right from the get go. I even collected coupons and sent away for the Boba Fett action figure from Kenner before it was released into the shops. If you were as big a Star Wars fan as I was back then, I can't see how you could've failed to not have been fascinated by the character. Of course, the prequels and the attendant revelations about Jango Fett and the clone army etc totally ruined the character forever, in my view. But pre-21st Century, his appeal is obvious to me. Fair enough, but how many lines did he have in ESB? For me, the intrinsic stiffness and emotionless character his costume gave him ruined any chance he had with me. We already had vador as a spooky faceless villain, and his helmet was cooler then Fett's, so as he really did much less and said nothing or maybe one line, it's difficult for me to have any kind of connexion with him. But that's me I think it was more to do with his interactions with Darth Vader, rather than his lines per se that made him so interesting. When we first meet Fett and the other bounty hunters, it's clear that some of the Imperial officers aboard Vader's Star Destroyer consider them the lowest of scum. Then Vader says he wants Han Solo and the others alive and pointedly warns Fett "no disintegrations" -- straight away you know that this guy means business. Later we hear him snarl at Vader that he doesn't want Solo put in the carbon freezing chamber because he's worth a lot to him alive. It's really just Fett's attitude and his look that does it. It's a quintessential less is more performance from actor Jeremy Bulloch and voice artist Jason Wingreen. As for Vader having a cooler looking helmet than Fett...hmmm, that's debatable for me.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 5, 2016 15:44:07 GMT -5
(I prefer the idea that punk started in 1973-4 with Cabaret Voltaire though ) I'd go back further than that. Garage rock bands in the USA in the mid 60s were ostensibly punk but truly The MC5 out of Detroit in 1969 and their first album/ single Kick Out The Jams was pure punk. Plenty of examples of that song on YouTube
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 16:15:38 GMT -5
(I prefer the idea that punk started in 1973-4 with Cabaret Voltaire though ) I'd go back further than that. Garage rock bands in the USA in the mid 60s were ostensibly punk but truly The MC5 out of Detroit in 1969 and their first album/ single Kick Out The Jams was pure punk. Plenty of examples of that song on YouTube In a way yes. I favor the Cabs stance since MC5 tried ti emulate rock and roll anyways, and their music ended up being rock and roll as well, just rawer, when the cabs really had no idea what they wanted to achive, maybe tried to do some weird form of jazz at first, using the saxophone and tape recorders to apply some William Burroughs literature techiques to music. But all in all, for me, punk music is about starting to create the second you hold an instrument for hte first time instead of trying to learn how to play it
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 5, 2016 16:27:21 GMT -5
I think it was more to do with his interactions with Darth Vader, rather than his lines per se that made him so interesting. When we first meet Fett and the other bounty hunters, it's clear that some of the Imperial officers aboard Vader's Star Destroyer consider them the lowest of scum. Then Vader says he wants Han Solo and the others alive and pointedly warns Fett "no disintegrations" -- straight away you know that this guy means business. Later we hear him snarl at Vader that he doesn't want Solo put in the carbon freezing chamber because he's worth a lot to him alive. It's really just Fett's attitude and his look that does it. It's a quintessential less is more performance from actor Jeremy Bulloch and voice artist Jason Wingreen. As for Vader having a cooler looking helmet than Fett...hmmm, that's debatable for me. Hmmm.. yeah, well, on the paper I get what you mean, but it felt rather bland in the movies for me... On a funny side note, around 2000 or 2001, Paris had its first real comicon. It still was a modest operation, but I was a customer of the shop who organized it and they asked me to help out. Because of my rather good english and not being a die-hard star wars fan, I was assigned for two days to take care of Dave Prowse, sit by him an smooth out communications while he signed pictures, books or movies, take him to diner etc. He felt quite tired and old the whole time, but he wasnt shy of details with me, and I must confess he grew on me, even if I understood even more that James Earl Jones really owns Darth Vador. That being said he gave me tons of anecdotes about A Clockwork Orange
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