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Post by sabongero on Feb 23, 2016 16:04:42 GMT -5
To quote Honest Trailers : "Incest! Beheadings! Attempted child murder! More incest!... and that's just the first episode!!!" I remember reading the A Song of Ice and Fire series years ago. I manged to finish the first three book (I must admit skipping through the 20-page descriptions of a rivet and plates of an armor, along with other similar droll multi-page description of an item), and found it interesting. The incest was disturbing along with the attempted child murder and other disturbing incidents. I thought GRRM was just going for shock value, but all in all, it worked in the confines of the series really well. It was originally supposed to be a trilogy. Then it became a 5-parter. And now it is supposed to be a 7-book epic. Let us hope so, and hope it doesn't end up like The Wheels of Time which was unfinished by the author as he prematurely died before completing the series. But Brandon Sanderson I believe completed the rest of the book with the blessings of the author's wife and estate.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 16:04:53 GMT -5
To quote Honest Trailers : "Incest! Beheadings! Attempted child murder! More incest!... and that's just the first episode!!!" That's about what I got from it.
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Post by sabongero on Feb 23, 2016 16:07:12 GMT -5
Getting back to CB characters, I always loved the early times of West Coast Avengers, led by Clint Barton and at his side is his wife Bobbi Morse. I felt really bad when I found out a couple of years ago that Bobbi Morse was killed. But that she's retconned to come back alive after Skrull Invasion. But the new stories doesn't have the same feel as the yesteryear between the two. It's like Hawkeye is a totally different character as opposed to the leader of the West Coast Avengers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 18:44:49 GMT -5
The one and only episode I saw was just sooo degrading towards women. I wanted to give it another chance, but my husband thought it was worse than I did. And he refuses to watch it. Was the episode you saw the one where Daenerys (the platinum blonde girl) gets married to the leader of the nomadic horsemen? Because if it was, she becomes more badass as the show progresses, although more as a politician than as a warrior. Beside Dany, there are a handful of female characters who are quite badass and do have fighting skills on a par with the male ones. But yes, I'd agree that GoT features many scenes that are highly sexist, throughout its run. It's also very quick to have the more unsavoury among the male characters issue rape threats or make insinuations. There is one female main character that spends much of the series being the target of terrible verbal abuse and public humiliation. If the first episode doesn't hook you, and even puts you off, I'd say it's probably not going to get better as you go along. I'm still sticking with the show because I'm invested in the characters, but I'm not as infatuated with it as much as I was with the first two seasons. But that has more to do with its tone growing more cynical and sadistic in general, than with a misogynistic aspect. Sorry! I found your last sentence so funny that I forgot to answer your question as best as I could. I saw the very first episode of season 1. I saw it last year some time. I borrowed I think seasons 1-4 on DVD from my sister-in-law, and I couldn't make it past that first episode. I think it's just not for me. I don't know. I hate saying that without giving it another shot, but I cannot sit through much worse than what was in the first episode.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 23, 2016 20:03:58 GMT -5
Getting back to CB characters, I always loved the early times of West Coast Avengers, led by Clint Barton and at his side is his wife Bobbi Morse. I felt really bad when I found out a couple of years ago that Bobbi Morse was killed. But that she's retconned to come back alive after Skrull Invasion. But the new stories doesn't have the same feel as the yesteryear between the two. It's like Hawkeye is a totally different character as opposed to the leader of the West Coast Avengers. I have the entire run of WC Avengers and I really didn't think it was a good series. I think Hawkeye makes a terrible leader, both here and in Thunderbolts.
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Post by sabongero on Feb 23, 2016 20:13:24 GMT -5
Getting back to CB characters, I always loved the early times of West Coast Avengers, led by Clint Barton and at his side is his wife Bobbi Morse. I felt really bad when I found out a couple of years ago that Bobbi Morse was killed. But that she's retconned to come back alive after Skrull Invasion. But the new stories doesn't have the same feel as the yesteryear between the two. It's like Hawkeye is a totally different character as opposed to the leader of the West Coast Avengers. I have the entire run of WC Avengers and I really didn't think it was a good series. I think Hawkeye makes a terrible leader, both here and in Thunderbolts. I loved reading the West Coast Avengers when I was a kid when they were coming out. As a kid it was a group I could read from the inception, and that was a rarity, since all the other ones are already established. Especially since I wasn't familiar with the stories of the Marvel Universe. I loved it simple storytelling. I would still probably like it now due to nostalgic reasons. I was able to read it up to the issues reaching the teens, and then alas, I stopped reading comic books for close to two decades. I never read Thunderbolts so I have no opinion to share about that series. Perhaps I should pick it up one of these days. What's a good jumping on point issue in the Tunderbolts (the modern version when it had Zemo running it)?
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 24, 2016 11:42:02 GMT -5
This current conversation reminds me of a character ... Shane. Any story that starts with a friend and partner ditching his friend in a hospital run over with flesh eating infected zombies, so he can f___ his wife and steal his son, has nowhere else to go but downhill. My wife and son eat that show up and my son has read most of the comics, but I can't for the life of me stand that show for any length of time.
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Post by The Captain on Feb 24, 2016 12:00:14 GMT -5
I have the entire run of WC Avengers and I really didn't think it was a good series. I think Hawkeye makes a terrible leader, both here and in Thunderbolts. I loved reading the West Coast Avengers when I was a kid when they were coming out. As a kid it was a group I could read from the inception, and that was a rarity, since all the other ones are already established. Especially since I wasn't familiar with the stories of the Marvel Universe. I loved it simple storytelling. I would still probably like it now due to nostalgic reasons. I was able to read it up to the issues reaching the teens, and then alas, I stopped reading comic books for close to two decades. I never read Thunderbolts so I have no opinion to share about that series. Perhaps I should pick it up one of these days. What's a good jumping on point issue in the Tunderbolts (the modern version when it had Zemo running it)? On Thunderbolts, my personal favorite portions of the series are the first 25 issues, and then the ones later on when Warren Ellis, Christos Gage, and Andy Diggle were at the helm. I was never much of a fan of the Hawkeye-led group, and I felt that the Jeff Parker run that ended the series suffered from pretty bad artwork.
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Post by sabongero on Feb 24, 2016 14:04:42 GMT -5
I loved reading the West Coast Avengers when I was a kid when they were coming out. As a kid it was a group I could read from the inception, and that was a rarity, since all the other ones are already established. Especially since I wasn't familiar with the stories of the Marvel Universe. I loved it simple storytelling. I would still probably like it now due to nostalgic reasons. I was able to read it up to the issues reaching the teens, and then alas, I stopped reading comic books for close to two decades. I never read Thunderbolts so I have no opinion to share about that series. Perhaps I should pick it up one of these days. What's a good jumping on point issue in the Tunderbolts (the modern version when it had Zemo running it)? On Thunderbolts, my personal favorite portions of the series are the first 25 issues, and then the ones later on when Warren Ellis, Christos Gage, and Andy Diggle were at the helm. I was never much of a fan of the Hawkeye-led group, and I felt that the Jeff Parker run that ended the series suffered from pretty bad artwork. I've read Warren Ellis' short run on Thunderbolts and illustrated by Brazilian penciller, Mike Deodato. I liked the atmosphere and mood of the story. It's like reading it while disbelieving the bad guys has taken over. I liked the power struggle within the team, and Moonstone waiting to pull of the coup d'etat on a bipolar Norman Osborn. That was a very vicious Thunderbolts team (i.e. ripping off/biting an arm from a D-List superhero who I haven't heard from). And Mike's pencils when Bullseye got the "bejeezus" beat out of him by that Native American D-List superhero was fantastic! You can feel each punch and really feel the beatdown. The only thing missing was Electra watching from the background and laughing like a laughing hyena as Bullseye got the beatdown of his life. I would have read that title monthly if it was a regular series with that creative team. It was one of the best creative teams for a specific kind of book that produced that kind of mood where the bad guys have taken over, and there's nothing you can do about it. Menacing!
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Post by realjla on Feb 24, 2016 15:42:01 GMT -5
I have never bought in to the idea that Batman and Superman are natural enemies. Great for an imaginary novel in 1966, but otherwise, sorry, I just don't see it as anything more than an artificial contrivance. On the same note (and I have no idea if even a vestige of this remains in continuity), I hated the Denny O'Neil-created Green Arrow-Hawkman feud in the JLA. In what he must have thought was an effort to create characters, he created caricatures. It was two bowls of stupid for lunch. Agreed on both. I wasn't sure if it was O'Neil, Wein, or Maggin who came up with that feud, since O'Neil and Maggin wrote for GA fairly extensively outside the League. It seemed rather contrived, kind of like '60s 'Dragnet', with Hawkman as a feathered Sgt, Friday, and GA as every actor in his 20s or 30s who could pass for the 'drugged out hippies', man. The Superman-Batman 'split' was purely motivated by the then-forthcoming Dark Knight and 'Post-Crisis' nonsense. But in order to ease readers into the heroes' not getting along, rather than an abrupt 'one month they're BFFs, the next they hate each other', there were a few instances between Crisis and "Man of Steel'(specifically JLA # 250 and 'Heroes Against Hunger') where Superman in particular thinks of how irritated he is with Batman. Then, the 'Bat-office'(again, Denny O'Neil, then the editor) decided that 'The Dark Knight' would be the 'real future' for DC, and so Batman ought to start acting like a prick in the present. They even had to give a quick excuse for Batman to throw the Outsiders under the bus so the group could carry on without him, along the likes of 'Good job, but I work better alone, F U.'
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Post by dupersuper on Feb 24, 2016 21:35:36 GMT -5
This current conversation reminds me of a character ... Shane. Any story that starts with a friend and partner ditching his friend in a hospital run over with flesh eating infected zombies, so he can f___ his wife and steal his son, has nowhere else to go but downhill. My wife and son eat that show up and my son has read most of the comics, but I can't for the life of me stand that show for any length of time. A: he did think Rick was a goner, B: you're not supposed to... like Shane.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 24, 2016 22:57:48 GMT -5
This current conversation reminds me of a character ... Shane. Any story that starts with a friend and partner ditching his friend in a hospital run over with flesh eating infected zombies, so he can f___ his wife and steal his son, has nowhere else to go but downhill. My wife and son eat that show up and my son has read most of the comics, but I can't for the life of me stand that show for any length of time. A: he did think Rick was a goner, B: you're not supposed to... like Shane. :-) And I don't lol. The last straw was Hershel. I liked him. After that f it.
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Post by chadwilliam on Feb 24, 2016 23:23:16 GMT -5
I have never bought in to the idea that Batman and Superman are natural enemies. Great for an imaginary novel in 1966, but otherwise, sorry, I just don't see it as anything more than an artificial contrivance.
I agree with this 100%!
Actually, it's not really even about Superman and Batman not getting along - it's about Superman wanting to be friends but Batman not wanting to be seen hanging around with someone he considers to be a naïve simpleton who suffers from a lack of self-esteem (what were the words Geoff Johns put into Superman's mouth? "Batman's right. Batman's always right.").
What exactly are their differences anyway? Both characters have a strict 'No Killing' policy, neither would ever torture or cripple their foes, both are alright with threatening their enemies (ie. dangling them off a rooftop/leaving them atop the Daily Planet globe and saying "See ya!"). Is it as simple as "I work during the night, you work during the day"?
Whatever it is, it has to be Superman who suffers the most. DC seemed really hell-bent on establishing Batman as the cool kid who wanted nothing to do with the dork - how was this supposed to benefit Superman?
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 25, 2016 5:08:00 GMT -5
This all started when John Byrne took over Superman. In the MOS mini, he established that their differing methods placed them at odds.It's funny that Morrison almost wrote a different person in the JLA book. In those stories he was a cold person that had contempt for the rest of the JL.
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Post by dupersuper on Feb 25, 2016 20:57:58 GMT -5
That's when it started in-canon, but Dark Knight Returns had already set the stage.
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