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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 2, 2024 22:33:34 GMT -5
I would have been very intrigued to see Perez do Thor. I don't really care much for Wondie as a character, but George seemed to embrace the mythology of the series well
I still haven't read much of it though I've bought a few back-issues from the early part of the run. He did create a fantastic character design for Ares, and if he'd been able to do as much for the other Olympians that would have been almost worth the price of admission in itself. I don't believe he did, unfortunately, but perhaps I haven't seen enough to judge - I find I can't readily picture to myself his Zeus, Hera, etc, whether that means that I haven't seen them or that they just weren't strong enough to make an impression the way his Ares immediately did, I don't know.
They were pretty much drawn as traditional Greek art, including hair and beards. Ares was really the only one who got some style.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 2, 2024 22:47:03 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of either the Infinity Gauntlet or Wonder Woman but if I had to choose I'd take IG, mostly because I'd rather see Perez drawing Marvel characters than DC. I wonder, since he was such a popular artist, did Marvel ever offer Perez his choice of book? Like, "Listen George, which series or character would you most like to do? Thor? Spider-Man? OK, it's yours for as long as you want it!" Or did that kind of thing never happen, as it seems to have done with writers, at least on occasion. I would have been very intrigued to see Perez do Thor. I don't really care much for Wondie as a character, but George seemed to embrace the mythology of the series well Even George’s art wasn’t enough to get me to buy Wonder Woman.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 2, 2024 23:38:58 GMT -5
I would have been very intrigued to see Perez do Thor. I don't really care much for Wondie as a character, but George seemed to embrace the mythology of the series well Even George’s art wasn’t enough to get me to buy Wonder Woman. Wondy was okay, even before George; just never in long stretches, for me. I had a hodge podge of issues. Flash and Green Lantern were kind of the same way (the Bronze Age stuff) though I had a lot more of those (especially Flash and the Grell Green Lanterns, for Green Arrow). The most consistent reads, for me, were the Golden Age stories, from Marston. Even at their weirdest, they were more interesting and had a fairy tale quality to them that held up reasonably well, much like Captain Marvel and some of the Superman material. It didn't take too much reading to discover that Marston was using philosophy for an excuse to indulge a fetish; but, he could at least build a story around it. Her villains were nastier, too, like Dr Psycho, Cheetah and Baroness Paula Von Gunther. The post-Wertham stories lacked any really memorable villains or storylines, apart from the Dian Prince, Wonder Woman cycle. That was where it got interesting again, for me and I had that whole run. It always seemed that when you stripped away the weirdness and fairy tale stuff, you were left with a generic superhero that grew dull quickly. The Diana Prince cycle brought back some of the weirdness and also upped the physical danger, which made it more compelling. Otherwise, she had Superman's problem of not being easily threatened and a blander rogue's gallery, outside of the quirky Golden Age ones.
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Post by Rags on Feb 3, 2024 0:07:37 GMT -5
This is the cover of the Luke Cage Omnibus (collects 1-47 plus Annual 1).
The guy on the cover looks too small and puny to be Cage....am I the only one who feels that way? I'm just not feeling hero-for-hire when I see him.
I swapped a variant that cost me $15 (worth closer to $90) for one of these that the seller got in a bundle for about $55 each, so win:win.
Here are the books collected
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Post by berkley on Feb 3, 2024 1:44:35 GMT -5
I would have been very intrigued to see Perez do Thor. I don't really care much for Wondie as a character, but George seemed to embrace the mythology of the series well Even George’s art wasn’t enough to get me to buy Wonder Woman.
And for me - and this is just a personal reaction that I haven't seen anyone else go along with - I don't like Perez's art around that time in general as much as I do his earlier or his later stuff.
My attitude to WW s a bit like Batflunkie's: I don't particularly like (or dislike) the character but the Greek mythology aspect of Perez's run attracts my interest. On the other hand, in another way it also acts as a deterrent, because I'd rather have the Greek mythology without Wonder Woman. But where else will I get to see Perez drawing Greek myth?
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Post by commond on Feb 3, 2024 3:55:02 GMT -5
I liked how Perez characterized Diana as an exchange student by having her live with that professor and her daughter, learning to speak English and discovering what life was like in the outside world. The supporting cast that Perez built around Diana was one of the strengths of the book along with the focus on Greek mythology. It was very natural and stood in stark contrast to a lot of the edgier reboots that were happening at the time.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 3, 2024 8:29:23 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of either the Infinity Gauntlet or Wonder Woman but if I had to choose I'd take IG, mostly because I'd rather see Perez drawing Marvel characters than DC. I wonder, since he was such a popular artist, did Marvel ever offer Perez his choice of book? Like, "Listen George, which series or character would you most like to do? Thor? Spider-Man? OK, it's yours for as long as you want it!" Or did that kind of thing never happen, as it seems to have done with writers, at least on occasion. I definitely am not a fount of insider knowledge that many people are here, but I did read my share of comic shop news back in the day... my impression is that was exactly what happened when he did Avengers with Busiek? Am I was off there?
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2024 8:49:25 GMT -5
I'll never forgive George Perez for leaving the Infinity Gauntlet to draw War of the Gods at Dc. I said it. Wrong way around. War of the Gods came first and Infinity Gauntlet intruded upon his work on it and the workload caused him to slow down and Marvel assigned Ron Lim to take over. Perez had pitched War of the Gods as both a Wonder Woman 50th Anniversary project and the big DC crossover series. However, between editor Karen berger being out on maternity leave and complications with both a proposed John Byrne Shazam series and the Titans continuity, around Donna Troy, the project was delayed and DC editorial was not interested in it being the company-wide crossover. Perez was only originally supposed to do layouts, but found himself contractually obligated to complete it. In the delays in getting the project underway, Jim Starlin offered him Infinity Gauntlet, which Perez thought was going to be the final chapter of Thanos; but they were talking sequel before they were half way into it. Perez lost enthusiasm and also felt that Starlin was padding his story well beyond the necessities of the plot and lost his enthusiasm. That, coupled with the double project workload, with a multitude of characters in each, killed Perez's enthusiasm for either and his place slowed greatly. Source: George Perez: Storyteller, pgs 86-90 It ended up souring his relationship with DC (and his exclusive contract was up) and somewhat with Marvel, though Hulk: Future Imperfect improved that. There was a period of time in the late 90's where Perez' output all but disappeared. He was inking some stories almost no pencil work. I wonder if they were health related? He was almost forgotten by fandom and doing the Heroes return Avengers introduced him to all the current comic fans.
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Post by Rags on Feb 3, 2024 17:59:30 GMT -5
Ordinarily, I wouldn't be interested in a book graded 3.0 (low grade copy between 'good' and 'very good' condition) but I looked at this #1 I Dream Of Jeannie with interest. It's difficult to get in grades higher than VG and this one being a 'yellow label' CGC means it's actually signed on the cover by Jeannie herself, Barbara Eden.
It went for over $223.00! I was almost tempted to make a play for it given those other givens about it. Sigh
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 3, 2024 19:28:53 GMT -5
Wrong way around. War of the Gods came first and Infinity Gauntlet intruded upon his work on it and the workload caused him to slow down and Marvel assigned Ron Lim to take over. Perez had pitched War of the Gods as both a Wonder Woman 50th Anniversary project and the big DC crossover series. However, between editor Karen berger being out on maternity leave and complications with both a proposed John Byrne Shazam series and the Titans continuity, around Donna Troy, the project was delayed and DC editorial was not interested in it being the company-wide crossover. Perez was only originally supposed to do layouts, but found himself contractually obligated to complete it. In the delays in getting the project underway, Jim Starlin offered him Infinity Gauntlet, which Perez thought was going to be the final chapter of Thanos; but they were talking sequel before they were half way into it. Perez lost enthusiasm and also felt that Starlin was padding his story well beyond the necessities of the plot and lost his enthusiasm. That, coupled with the double project workload, with a multitude of characters in each, killed Perez's enthusiasm for either and his place slowed greatly. Source: George Perez: Storyteller, pgs 86-90 It ended up souring his relationship with DC (and his exclusive contract was up) and somewhat with Marvel, though Hulk: Future Imperfect improved that. There was a period of time in the late 90's where Perez' output all but disappeared. He was inking some stories almost no pencil work. I wonder if they were health related? He was almost forgotten by fandom and doing the Heroes return Avengers introduced him to all the current comic fans. In George Perez: Storyteller, he talks about his problems at the end of the 80s and the first half of the 90s. The biggest problem was psychological. In 1987, he launched the revamped Wonder Woman, as artist and co-plotter and quickly took over the full writing, with Len Wein dialoguing. Then, he was writing and drawing for two years, then just writing. During that time, he was also working on a Titans graphic novel, Games, but there were delays and it kept getting pushed back. They ended up abandoning it. That was a big blow to George. He had reunited with Marv Wolfman, in Titans and did the "Who is Wonder Girl?" storyline, that revamped her as Troia, However, he was far more involved in the story than he had been before, but he had always co-plotted with Marv. Marv was having writer's block issues and stories were not at past levels. Meanwhile, Perez conceived War of the Gods as a Wonder Woman 50th Anniversary celebration, which he would write and oversee the crossover (it was supposed to be company-wide) and do layouts, but not pencil. Karen Berger went on maternity leave and the project sat on desks and then Perez was told that DC had no interest in doing a Wonder Woman anniversary celebration and War would just be a mini-event. There were complications from John Byrne's planned revamp of Captain marvel, which fizzled out and Titans complicated the use of Donna Troy. In the end, it went ahead, but with Perez having to draw it, contractually, which interfered when he also took on Infinity Gauntlet. With that project, with his experience of writing his own stories, he found himself frustrated with Starlin's story, as he felt it was spinning its wheels, repeating the same cycle of beats (fighting, talking, getting beat, getting back up and rinse and repeat). It killed his enthusiasm, plus the workload of two compromised projects took its toll on him and his confidence. he already had the failure of the unrealized JLA/Avengers (killed by Jim Shooter) and Games, and now he was replaced on Infinity Gauntlet, because he fell behind. His wife had finished reading one of Peter David's Star Trek novels and suggested he might want to work with David, at some point and George called him up and asked David to keep him in mind, for any future projects. David, being no dummy, called editor Bobby Chase and talked about Hulk: Future Imperfect, which had been looking for an artist, after Sam Kieth and Dale Keown both turned it down. Chase jumped at it, they called Perez and he was on board for the two-issue prestige mini. First issue went great, then he fell behind on the second, to the point they called and said "finish it now, or else." He put in a 72 hour straight marathon at the drawing table to finish it and collapsed from the exhaustion. His wife found huim asleep in a lounge chair and couldn't wake him. He then worked with David on Sachs & Violens, for the Epic Heavy Hitters line and it was the hit of the books launched; but, he ran into problems getting the later issues done. Mark Gruenwald, in 1995, hired George to write Silver Surfer, challenging him to move beyond known Marvel space and familiar characters and do something more imaginative with it, which Perez liked. Then Gruenwald died of a heart attack and Marvel didn't like where the series was going and ended the storyline, unfinished. He got a new agent, Harrison Miller, a lawyer. He got him terrific money to do the Break-Thru crossover, for the Ultraverse line, then he was going to do Ultraforce. Break-Thru went fine, but Ultraforce's launch coincided with a long-planned vacation. he ended up doing breakdowns, with Jerry Bingham doing finishes. Now, he wasn't even penciling his own series. He did return to drawing, but hit delays and waning enthusiasm again. then marvel bought Malibu. he did the Ultraforce/Avengers crossover and that was it. He did a project for Topps, inking Gil Kane, then took on I-Bots, for Tekno Comics, then found that they were in a mess, financially, from high overhead and low sales. He heard about the new Titans series, from Dan Jurgens and offered his inking services and got a cool reception and editor Eddie Berganza had to go to bat for him, at DC. It didn't do well and hurt his income. he said he made more off inking two pages in the Superman wedding special than for 15 issues of Titans. His diabetes did flare up and cause complications later in the 90s, but he had been diagnosed in the 80s, so that might have been affecting him physically, without him realizing it. He was using the DC income to offset doing his own Crimson Plague, which did okay, but not well enough to be a sole source of income. It was the chance to do Avengers that relit the fire in him and Kurt Busiek was a perfect match for him, in terms of doing something in sync with his interests and he stuck around for a while and rebuilt fences with Marvel and the fans. So, yeah, health was an issue by the mid-late 90s; but, confidence and enthusiasm were bigger issues and chasing money (he got really good deals in everything, because of his name) wasn't fixing the enthusiasm part. Avengers was a case where Marvel came to him and it was the right thing, at the right time and it re-established him as a superstar. George always considered himself a fan of comics and superheroes; but, the changes in the industry, starting in the late 80s and carrying on to the mid-90s really went against his mindset, as he cared about the art, to the point he kept working on it to meet his own standards, rather than turn in what he felt was substandard work, which led to the delays. In a way, it was like George Lucas constantly re-tinkering with Star Wars, in the later years. Perez couldn't just throw it together and let it sell on the strength of his name, like some of the Image guys or others in the industry, at the time. Physical health became an issue in the 2000s and later and it probably was a factor in the energy in the early 90s, but he didn't realize it; but, the mental health issues were bigger. Not in the sense of depression or a breakdown, but just that loss of confidence and drive to see a project through, like in the old days.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2024 19:55:52 GMT -5
Perez is a legend, but I would never call him a good writer. But Imagine if he had struck out on his own, at the peak of his abilities. Maybe he wouldn't have had to beg Marvel and Dc for work. I find it interesting that he criticized Starlin. Yes, maybe IG could have been shortened , but it is what it is.
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 3, 2024 20:55:53 GMT -5
Yes, maybe IG could have been shortened , but it is what it is. You mean a humungous pile of steaming crap?
Just joshing. I've never read it and never will. Any comic with the words "Starlin" and "Thanos" associated with it is an automatic no-starter for me, and from everything I've heard Infinity Gauntlet would only confirm that opinion.
There. I said it.
Cei-U! I summon my closed mind!
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Post by berkley on Feb 3, 2024 21:23:57 GMT -5
Yes, maybe IG could have been shortened , but it is what it is. You mean a humungous pile of steaming crap?
Just joshing. I've never read it and never will. Any comic with the words "Starlin" and "Thanos" associated with it is an automatic no-starter for me, and from everything I've heard Infinity Gauntlet would only confirm that opinion.
There. I said it.
Cei-U! I summon my closed mind!
Even the first couple, the Captain Marvel and the Warlock from the early '70s? I'm with you on everything else but I love those two.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2024 21:30:41 GMT -5
Yes, maybe IG could have been shortened , but it is what it is. You mean a humungous pile of steaming crap?
Just joshing. I've never read it and never will. Any comic with the words "Starlin" and "Thanos" associated with it is an automatic no-starter for me, and from everything I've heard Infinity Gauntlet would only confirm that opinion.
There. I said it.
Cei-U! I summon my closed mind!
It’s an evergreen tpb. My only complaint is that they had the replacement Thor in the story.
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Post by spoon on Feb 3, 2024 21:56:24 GMT -5
With that project, with his experience of writing his own stories, he found himself frustrated with Starlin's story, as he felt it was spinning its wheels, repeating the same cycle of beats (fighting, talking, getting beat, getting back up and rinse and repeat). It killed his enthusiasm, plus the workload of two compromised projects took its toll on him and his confidence. he already had the failure of the unrealized JLA/Avengers (killed by Jim Shooter) and Games, and now he was replaced on Infinity Gauntlet, because he fell behind. When I finally read Infinity Gauntlet, I found the story underwhelming. I enjoyed Thanos Quest more even though it's the appetizer.
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