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Post by kirby101 on Feb 14, 2024 10:25:17 GMT -5
Growing up with an artist doesn't make them good. Doesn't mean you can't have fond memories of a book. Or still love the enjoyment you had then. But we can reappraise them in the cooler light of the years that have past. This also doesn't mean they weren't good. "I loved them when I was 10" is just not a final argument.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 14, 2024 10:35:05 GMT -5
Growing up with an artist doesn't make them good. Doesn't mean you can't have fond memories of a book. Or still love the enjoyment you had then. But we can reappraise them in the cooler light of the years that have past. This also doesn't mean they weren't good. "I loved them when I was 10" is just not a final argument.Do you even know how to internet?
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 14, 2024 11:06:39 GMT -5
Growing up with an artist doesn't make them good. Doesn't mean you can't have fond memories of a book. Or still love the enjoyment you had then. But we can reappraise them in the cooler light of the years that have past. This also doesn't mean they weren't good. "I loved them when I was 10" is just not a final argument.Do you even know how to internet? LOL, SMH, YMMV
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Post by driver1980 on Feb 14, 2024 12:29:21 GMT -5
Growing up with an artist doesn't make them good. Doesn't mean you can't have fond memories of a book. Or still love the enjoyment you had then. But we can reappraise them in the cooler light of the years that have past. This also doesn't mean they weren't good. "I loved them when I was 10" is just not a final argument. Imagine the following in a Bill Lumbergh voice, please: Yeah…I’m going to have to sort of go ahead and disagree with you…I feel we recognise what we like, and I’d be surprised if that changes. I like John Romita’s Spider-Man when I first saw it in various UK annuals, and that hasn’t changed. On the other side of the coin, when I first saw Erik Larsen’s art, it wasn’t for me. That hasn’t changed, either. For myself, growing up with an artist is neither here nor there when it comes to judging them. We like what we like. My first experience of Neal Adam’s Batman art was a reprint of Detective Comics #410 in a UK hardback annual. I liked it. I still do. I really cannot think of one - not even one - artist whose work I changed my view on. The stuff I disliked as a kid, such as Larsen’s art, has not changed, it’s still the same art. And I still get a buzz out of Neal Adam’s Batman 30 or so years since I first saw it.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 14, 2024 13:44:39 GMT -5
I have changed my mind on Don Heck, George Tuska, Jim Aparo and Curt Swan. I have changed my mind on Chic Stone inking Kirby.
A big one for me was Gil Kane, when he took over Spider-Man from Romita, I really disliked his work. I almost cried when he took over Conan from Barry Smith (turns out it was only for two issues). By the 80s I really warmed up to him and would sometimes buy books because he was the artist. And looking back, those two Conan issues are pretty spectacular.
I am also finding some bronze age artists I liked not as good as I thought then.
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Post by tonebone on Feb 14, 2024 14:56:13 GMT -5
I have always been averse to buying into "the hype machine". Even at 9, I had to be DRAGGED to see Star Wars, because I was sick of hearing about it in the news, seeing it in the newspaper, etc. Now, once I was there, it was a life changing experience, but I was dead against buying the hype.
I am a computer 3D artist, and I have never seen Avatar, 1 or 2. Too much buzz and hype.
With all the hype around the Star Wars Disney sequels, I really became soured on Star Wars, in general (though, I have recently rekindled my love for the Original Trilogy).
That being said, I have found the unavoidable, relentless hype for Jack Kirby (and dismissive attitudes toward Stan Lee, or even his inkers) have really put me off of the King. I have always been a huge Kirby fan, and have always had an appreciation for his work and his life story. But, lately, it seems like you either bow at the altar of Kirby and his undying genius, or you don't understand comics. I'm kind of tired of it all, and it really has soured me from wanting to continue to dive into Kirby's creations that I haven't experienced, yet. Maybe I'll come back around, maybe not.
So, in short, I'm sick of the Kirby hype machine.
There, I said it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 14, 2024 15:49:34 GMT -5
I just can’t get excited about movies that are 6 months or years away.
There i said it.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 14, 2024 15:57:38 GMT -5
I'll raise you one and say I can barely get excited about movies. I'm a BIT excited about Dune, but that's the first one in a while. I need someone to take some risks and either do something totally new, or make a 'franchise' movie that actually takes a risk or does something different instead of banking on hype and nostalgia.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 14, 2024 15:59:08 GMT -5
I'll raise you one and say I can barely get excited about movies. I'm a BIT excited about Dune, but that's the first one in a while. I need someone to take some risks and either do something totally new, or make a 'franchise' movie that actually takes a risk or does something different instead of banking on hype and nostalgia. It just might be that I’m an old dude and have stopped looking forward to movies, shows etc.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 14, 2024 16:22:41 GMT -5
I have always been averse to buying into "the hype machine". Even at 9, I had to be DRAGGED to see Star Wars, because I was sick of hearing about it in the news, seeing it in the newspaper, etc. Now, once I was there, it was a life changing experience, but I was dead against buying the hype. I am a computer 3D artist, and I have never seen Avatar, 1 or 2. Too much buzz and hype. With all the hype around the Star Wars Disney sequels, I really became soured on Star Wars, in general (though, I have recently rekindled my love for the Original Trilogy). That being said, I have found the unavoidable, relentless hype for Jack Kirby (and dismissive attitudes toward Stan Lee, or even his inkers) have really put me off of the King. I have always been a huge Kirby fan, and have always had an appreciation for his work and his life story. But, lately, it seems like you either bow at the altar of Kirby and his undying genius, or you don't understand comics. I'm kind of tired of it all, and it really has soured me from wanting to continue to dive into Kirby's creations that I haven't experienced, yet. Maybe I'll come back around, maybe not. So, in short, I'm sick of the Kirby hype machine. There, I said it. I don't see why what people are now saying about Kirby, whether it is "hype" or not. Should prevent your consumption of his works. I mean I could see you not wanting to get into discussions about Kirby, but shying away from it is strange. Why would you deny yourself the amazing visual experience the Avatar film are because some fans like it too much?
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 14, 2024 16:28:00 GMT -5
Visually the fourth world stuff was amazing. Probably his best work anywhere.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 14, 2024 17:19:40 GMT -5
Yes, his use of the double page spread, which became a signature of his later period, is wonderful,
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Post by berkley on Feb 14, 2024 18:00:45 GMT -5
I haven't seen the Kirby Hype Machine in action myself, perhaps because this is the only comics site I spend much time at.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 14, 2024 18:21:27 GMT -5
I haven't seen the Kirby Hype Machine in action myself, perhaps because this is the only comics site I spend much time at. I don't know what is meant by the Kirby Hype Machine.
What there is, is a lot of new scholarship showing that contrary to his decades of claims, that Stan Lee did not come up with all the ideas in the Marvel Universe and maybe Kirby did a bit more than Stan in that regard. There is also the opinion of many as time goes by that Kirby was the one of most important creator in American comics. Is this hype? Don't know?
But that is all talk about Kirby, don't see why any of it should dissuade someone from enjoying his work.
The only time talk about a creator affects me is when you here that they were reprehensible.
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Post by Batflunkie on Feb 14, 2024 20:46:27 GMT -5
That being said, I have found the unavoidable, relentless hype for Jack Kirby (and dismissive attitudes toward Stan Lee, or even his inkers) have really put me off of the King. I have always been a huge Kirby fan, and have always had an appreciation for his work and his life story. But, lately, it seems like you either bow at the altar of Kirby and his undying genius, or you don't understand comics. I'm kind of tired of it all, and it really has soured me from wanting to continue to dive into Kirby's creations that I haven't experienced, yet. Maybe I'll come back around, maybe not. So, in short, I'm sick of the Kirby hype machine. There, I said it. I like bits and pieces of Kirby's work, but not the whole thing. I find his time on Captain America and Thor to be some of my favorite comic book works of all time. That being said, I tried to enjoy Fantastic Four with all the praise lavished on it and while it is inventive for it's time, it kind of feels half baked at some points (maybe Stan holding Jack back?). I also love The Demon and OMAC, but a good portion of Kirby's later work just feels structurally disjointed and missing the magic that made it great to begin with. That's why I don't much care for Fourth World outside of Mister Miracle and The Forever People and couldn't care less about The Eternals. I've tried to like his return to Captain America in the 70's, but the fact that he made the book so closed off from the rest of the Marvel Universe along with just making it a blatant continuation of OMAC just soured my opinion on it. I did however enjoy Bicentennial Battles quite a bit I'll raise you one and say I can barely get excited about movies. I'm a BIT excited about Dune, but that's the first one in a while. I need someone to take some risks and either do something totally new, or make a 'franchise' movie that actually takes a risk or does something different instead of banking on hype and nostalgia. Speaking of Dune, I'm surprised that there hasn't been an attempt to make a film or TV series based on Jodorowsky's Metabarons
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