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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 17, 2024 19:06:36 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of that choice, but it is indicative of how Hollywood operates, in terms of character and story, in the corporate studio world. The hero and villain have to have a deliberate link, for psychological connections, rather than let the hero be altruistic, going after the villain because people are getting killed. I also had a problem with the detective work to discover the tainted personal care products and the ridiculous fight scenes. Lot more good than bad, though.
I think Burton has been up his own sphincter since the mid-90s (at the latest), with a couple of exceptions, but that film was like Citizen Kane, compared to Batman Returns. Too many villains competing, too much freak show nonsense just for the sake of seeming Fellini-esque and just ridiculous story logic. It just kept getting progressively worse, in Schumacher's hands, but I don't think a third Burton film would have been an improvement. I also think Nolan did one good one and it was Batman Begins, not The Dark Knight, no matter what you think of Heath Ledger's Joker. I got a headache from the story logic in that and almost fell through the plot holes.
What was good in the first film, though, was what was left of the earlier Englehart/Rogers-inspired script, which then got pulled in a dozen directions, by Burton, Nicholson and others.
The 1966 film is still my favorite live action Batman, with The Mask of the Phantasm as the best Batman film, period. The 66 film is great fun, captures the spirit of the comics well, in a way that kids recognized, while giving something to the parents, to entertain them, on a different level (rather like the classic Looney Tunes cartoons). As a kid, I thought it was a great action film and as an adult, I thought it was funny satire (mostly)
With Burton, Id rather watch Bettlegjuice, Ed Wood or Mars Attacks.
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Post by Duragizer on Aug 19, 2024 20:02:42 GMT -5
I still have a soft spot for Batman '89, though these days I enjoy it more as a Joker movie than I do as a Batman one. Some re-editing to tighten the pacing and it'd be a pretty good cinematic Elseworlds.
Batman Returns, on the other hand ... I loved that movie as a kid, but it hasn't aged well for me at all. I'm not a big fan of Burton overall — I love the aesthetic of his films, but the tone often rubs me the wrong way. And BR is a very Burton film, with all his tropes dialled up to 11. DeVito's Penguin, in particular, I just can't stand; I find him as needlessly grotesque as Baron Harkonnen in David Lynch's Dune. I don't understand why Burton went for this subhuman depiction, especially if the audience is supposed to find him a tragic character.
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Post by silverdollar22 on Aug 19, 2024 20:50:28 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of that choice, but it is indicative of how Hollywood operates, in terms of character and story, in the corporate studio world. The hero and villain have to have a deliberate link, for psychological connections, rather than let the hero be altruistic, going after the villain because people are getting killed. I also had a problem with the detective work to discover the tainted personal care products and the ridiculous fight scenes. Lot more good than bad, though. I think Burton has been up his own sphincter since the mid-90s (at the latest), with a couple of exceptions, but that film was like Citizen Kane, compared to Batman Returns. Too many villains competing, too much freak show nonsense just for the sake of seeming Fellini-esque and just ridiculous story logic. It just kept getting progressively worse, in Schumacher's hands, but I don't think a third Burton film would have been an improvement. I also think Nolan did one good one and it was Batman Begins, not The Dark Knight, no matter what you think of Heath Ledger's Joker. I got a headache from the story logic in that and almost fell through the plot holes. What was good in the first film, though, was what was left of the earlier Englehart/Rogers-inspired script, which then got pulled in a dozen directions, by Burton, Nicholson and others. The 1966 film is still my favorite live action Batman, with The Mask of the Phantasm as the best Batman film, period. The 66 film is great fun, captures the spirit of the comics well, in a way that kids recognized, while giving something to the parents, to entertain them, on a different level (rather like the classic Looney Tunes cartoons). As a kid, I thought it was a great action film and as an adult, I thought it was funny satire (mostly) With Burton, Id rather watch Bettlegjuice, Ed Wood or Mars Attacks. Ehhh, don't all action movies - which superhero movies are undoubtedly just a subspecies of - operate on subpar story logic? Look at any Bond picture: "I'm not going to shoot you now, 007, because if I do you'll be too dead to carry the rest of the plot!" That said, maybe this is what puts Burton over Nolan, at least for Burton-partisans: his Bat-movies are supposed to be about Vibes over anything else. Fans forgive their gigantic leaps in plot (mostly) because the film itself never banks on them.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 19, 2024 20:55:17 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of that choice, but it is indicative of how Hollywood operates, in terms of character and story, in the corporate studio world. The hero and villain have to have a deliberate link, for psychological connections, rather than let the hero be altruistic, going after the villain because people are getting killed. I also had a problem with the detective work to discover the tainted personal care products and the ridiculous fight scenes. Lot more good than bad, though. I think Burton has been up his own sphincter since the mid-90s (at the latest), with a couple of exceptions, but that film was like Citizen Kane, compared to Batman Returns. Too many villains competing, too much freak show nonsense just for the sake of seeming Fellini-esque and just ridiculous story logic. It just kept getting progressively worse, in Schumacher's hands, but I don't think a third Burton film would have been an improvement. I also think Nolan did one good one and it was Batman Begins, not The Dark Knight, no matter what you think of Heath Ledger's Joker. I got a headache from the story logic in that and almost fell through the plot holes. What was good in the first film, though, was what was left of the earlier Englehart/Rogers-inspired script, which then got pulled in a dozen directions, by Burton, Nicholson and others. The 1966 film is still my favorite live action Batman, with The Mask of the Phantasm as the best Batman film, period. The 66 film is great fun, captures the spirit of the comics well, in a way that kids recognized, while giving something to the parents, to entertain them, on a different level (rather like the classic Looney Tunes cartoons). As a kid, I thought it was a great action film and as an adult, I thought it was funny satire (mostly) With Burton, Id rather watch Bettlegjuice, Ed Wood or Mars Attacks. Ehhh, don't all action movies - which superhero movies are undoubtedly just a subspecies of - operate on subpar story logic? Look at any Bond picture: "I'm not going to shoot you now, 007, because if I do you'll be too dead to carry the rest of the plot!" That said, maybe this is what puts Burton over Nolan, at least for Burton-partisans: his Bat-movies are supposed to be about Vibes over anything else. Fans forgive their gigantic leaps in plot (mostly) because the film itself never banks on them. I'm a story guy and Burton trying to look avant garde didn't amount to that great a story. I've seen plenty of action movies that have a pretty solid internal logic. It all depends on how much you want to put into the script.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 20, 2024 4:24:19 GMT -5
As a follow up to a post from last week. This toy is probably my most favorite from my childhood. Of course this is a third release from 2011, but I didn't have to break the bank for it. It came out to less than 40.
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Post by Calidore on Aug 20, 2024 4:56:04 GMT -5
As a follow up to a post from last week. This toy is probably my most favorite from my childhood. Of course this is a third release from 2011, but I didn't have to break the bank for it. It came out to less than 40. Hmm, toy with a bonus comic or comic with a bonus toy, which would I choose?
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 20, 2024 6:15:33 GMT -5
As a follow up to a post from last week. This toy is probably my most favorite from my childhood. Of course this is a third release from 2011, but I didn't have to break the bank for it. It came out to less than 40. Hmm, toy with a bonus comic or comic with a bonus toy, which would I choose? Ha , I’m afraid to open the package…
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Post by tartanphantom on Aug 20, 2024 8:30:49 GMT -5
Icctrombone , I noticed that they re-vamped the face to make him look more stern, and less like the original, which my brothers and I always said looked more like Mister Rogers in the face.
Can't wait for Captain Action to put on his Action cardigan and deck shoes and feed the Action fish and talk to Mr. "Speedy Delivery" McFeeley...
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Post by impulse on Aug 20, 2024 17:35:43 GMT -5
A little late to the discussion, but I enjoyed Batman 89 for what it was, though it's been a long time since I've seen it, and I was a kid at the time, so I took it at face value.
I was an adult when the Nolan films came out, and I'm not sure if it's more that or that fact they were trying so hard to be "so serious" that the inconsistencies and nonsensical reaching really pulled me out of the last one.
Ridiculous BS doesn't stand out as much when everything else is also supposed to be ridiculous BS, but if you're trying to be realistic and grounded and pull some BS out of your Bat-hole, it's far harder to overlook.
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Post by driver1980 on Aug 20, 2024 18:00:51 GMT -5
Ridiculous BS doesn't stand out as much when everything else is also supposed to be ridiculous BS, but if you're trying to be realistic and grounded and pull some BS out of your Bat-hole, it's far harder to overlook. A fair point!
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 20, 2024 19:31:10 GMT -5
I still have a soft spot for Batman '89, though these days I enjoy it more as a Joker movie than I do as a Batman one. Some re-editing to tighten the pacing and it'd be a pretty good cinematic Elseworlds. Batman Returns, on the other hand ... I loved that movie as a kid, but it hasn't aged well for me at all. I'm not a big fan of Burton overall — I love the aesthetic of his films, but the tone often rubs me the wrong way. And BR is a very Burton film, with all his tropes dialled up to 11. DeVito's Penguin, in particular, I just can't stand; I find him as needlessly grotesque as Baron Harkonnen in David Lynch's Dune. I don't understand why Burton went for this subhuman depiction, especially if the audience is supposed to find him a tragic character. I've still never seen either Batman or Returns, I grew up with Forever and that's usually my go-to Batman film. It's INCREDIBLY flawed but I still enjoy it. There is something of a petition going for WB to release the original Director's Cut that had a lot of it taken out of the final cut
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Aug 21, 2024 1:36:42 GMT -5
Forever got completely butchered in the theatrical cut a lot like the Justice League movie got butchered when Whedon took over from Snyder. It's a story about how Bruce comes to realize the reason he's compelled to be Batman is not because he's looking for revenge against criminals but because he's repressed the guilt he feels for his parents' deaths and then overcoming that guilt so that being Batman becomes a choice and not something he can't fight. And then they stupidly cut the scene where that all comes together and Bruce's arc is resolved.
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 21, 2024 9:37:01 GMT -5
So I saw that these are apparently up for a release in February Is it bad that I'm kind of interested in both of them?
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Post by tarkintino on Aug 21, 2024 9:52:01 GMT -5
Captain America for Dummies should be tied to bricks and hurled through the home windows of every cretin complaining that Sam Wilson is "wrong" (code) and "should not" be Cap in the comics or MCU.
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 21, 2024 10:06:44 GMT -5
Captain America for Dummies should be tied to bricks and hurled through the home windows of every cretin complaining that Sam Wilson is "wrong" (code) and "should not" be Cap in the comics or MCU. If it was just some random person who became Captain America, that I could understand. But it's Sam, he's been Steve's partner for ages and has earned the mantle and title of CA as far I'm concerned
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