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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2017 19:08:34 GMT -5
I thought it was obvious it was this pose
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 5, 2017 20:32:13 GMT -5
I see the Heisman pose too I think it's the helmet under the arm that sells it for me as it looks like Hiesman cradling the ball.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 22:31:36 GMT -5
I see the Heisman pose too I think it's the helmet under the arm that sells it for me as it looks like Hiesman cradling the ball. The Heisman pose was the first thing I thought of when I saw the helmet/ball tucked under the arm and the other arm extended in the classic football stiff arm pose. -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2017 22:49:08 GMT -5
I see the Heisman pose too I think it's the helmet under the arm that sells it for me as it looks like Hiesman cradling the ball. This proves that Stan Lee stole the Iron Man idea, too.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 5, 2017 23:47:46 GMT -5
I see the Heisman pose too I think it's the helmet under the arm that sells it for me as it looks like Hiesman cradling the ball. This proves that Stan Lee stole the Iron Man idea, too. And the Sandman's costume, too.
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Post by berkley on Jan 6, 2017 0:38:16 GMT -5
I'm tired (and bored) of Moon Knight being portrayed as an unstable whackadoo nutcase because Marvel got their panties in a bunch over MK being called a Batman clone. There, I said it! I agree in principle, though occasionally an individual writer will make the split-personality thing work. But in general I think it's a bad direction for the character and a weak basis to build on. The mercenary past, the supernatural angle (however that's played), and yes, the multiple identities (without the mental health issues) are more than enough to distinguish MK from Batman in my view. I have the collection of the first few Lemire issues but haven't read them yet, but I was disappointed when I heard he was going for the old is-he-or-isn't-he-crazy trope which was played out almost before it started, to my taste.
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Post by WestPhillyPunisher on Jan 6, 2017 4:04:35 GMT -5
I'm tired (and bored) of Moon Knight being portrayed as an unstable whackadoo nutcase because Marvel got their panties in a bunch over MK being called a Batman clone. There, I said it! That's funny, because I feel this is the most interesting Moon Knight has been since the Moench/Sienkiewicz run. It makes sense that his use of alter egos was the result of his being nuts, not a calculated choice. Well, I preferred that being a calculated choice, but, that's just me.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 6, 2017 10:31:42 GMT -5
That's funny, because I feel this is the most interesting Moon Knight has been since the Moench/Sienkiewicz run. It makes sense that his use of alter egos was the result of his being nuts, not a calculated choice. Well, I preferred that being a calculated choice, but, that's just me. You and me both, pal. The Moench Moon Knight did not suffer from multiple personality disorder; he just maintained several fictitious identities to help in his crime fighting activities. Just like Bruce Wayne / Matches Malone / Batman.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 6, 2017 10:42:24 GMT -5
Well, I preferred that being a calculated choice, but, that's just me. You and me both, pal. The Moench Moon Knight did not suffer from multiple personality disorder; he just maintained several fictitious identities to help in his crime fighting activities. Just like Bruce Wayne / Matches Malone / Batman. And Kent Allard/ Lamont Cranston/ The Shadow, too. And Noman/Old Beggar/Odysseus Not much new under the sun.
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Post by berkley on Jan 6, 2017 11:01:54 GMT -5
You and me both, pal. The Moench Moon Knight did not suffer from multiple personality disorder; he just maintained several fictitious identities to help in his crime fighting activities. Just like Bruce Wayne / Matches Malone / Batman. And Kent Allard/ Lamont Cranston/ The Shadow, too. And Noman/Old Beggar/Odysseus Not much new under the sun. Or Ra/Apollo/centre of the solar system. Seriously, I agree: MK's multiple identities are more interesting to me when they're NOT the result of some personality disorder but rather a deliberate tactic adotped by him with specific ends in mind.
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Post by The Captain on Jan 6, 2017 12:14:20 GMT -5
But it's specifically because of the "deliberate choice" and how it mirrors Batman that MK is saddled with the "pale imitation" baggage. He had his real identity, his wealthy playboy identity, his street-wise identity, and his superhero identity, which is pretty much Batman in a nutshell.
So, outside of the Khonshu supernatural angle, which is sometimes played up and other times completely ignored, how is MK even the slightest bit different than Batman?
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Post by brutalis on Jan 6, 2017 13:22:12 GMT -5
But it's specifically because of the "deliberate choice" and how it mirrors Batman that MK is saddled with the "pale imitation" baggage. He had his real identity, his wealthy playboy identity, his street-wise identity, and his superhero identity, which is pretty much Batman in a nutshell. So, outside of the Khonshu supernatural angle, which is sometimes played up and other times completely ignored, how is MK even the slightest bit different than Batman? Originally MK was a mercenary and monster hunter before becoming the Marvel version of Batman. Would it be so horrible to remove some of the psychological aspects and streamline his character a bit? Plenty of psychological changes for Bruce Banner/Hulk without Moon Knight having to be unstable. I think that is the easy way out in characterization to say he is insane. Getting lost/confused within all the differing parts he plays is fine, but insanity takes it a bit too far and into the real world for my enjoyment.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 6, 2017 15:47:21 GMT -5
But it's specifically because of the "deliberate choice" and how it mirrors Batman that MK is saddled with the "pale imitation" baggage. He had his real identity, his wealthy playboy identity, his street-wise identity, and his superhero identity, which is pretty much Batman in a nutshell. So, outside of the Khonshu supernatural angle, which is sometimes played up and other times completely ignored, how is MK even the slightest bit different than Batman? He doesn't put children at risk by using them as sidekicks! No, seriously, I agree: there isn't a lot to distinguish Moon Knight from Batman as far as their modus operandi goes. Their reasons, however, differ: Moon Knight didn't suffer the trauma of seeing his parents gunned down, and he seems far less obsessive about his crimefighting than Bruce Wayne does. That's not a whole lot of difference, I'll admit, but as a reader I'm fine with Moonie being "Marvel's Batman". There are so many characters that are barely disguised copies of others.
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Post by WestPhillyPunisher on Jan 6, 2017 15:52:24 GMT -5
But it's specifically because of the "deliberate choice" and how it mirrors Batman that MK is saddled with the "pale imitation" baggage. He had his real identity, his wealthy playboy identity, his street-wise identity, and his superhero identity, which is pretty much Batman in a nutshell. So, outside of the Khonshu supernatural angle, which is sometimes played up and other times completely ignored, how is MK even the slightest bit different than Batman? He doesn't put children at risk by using them as sidekicks! No, seriously, I agree: there isn't a lot to distinguish Moon Knight from Batman as far as their modus operandi goes. Their reasons, however, differ: Moon Knight didn't suffer the trauma of seeing his parents gunned down, and he seems far less obsessive about his crimefighting than Bruce Wayne does. That's not a whole lot of difference, I'll admit, but as a reader I'm fine with Moonie being "Marvel's Batman". There are so many characters that are barely disguised copies of others. On top of that, MK isn't the all-seeing, all-knowing, all arrogant arsehole Batman is.
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Post by berkley on Jan 6, 2017 18:22:39 GMT -5
But it's specifically because of the "deliberate choice" and how it mirrors Batman that MK is saddled with the "pale imitation" baggage. He had his real identity, his wealthy playboy identity, his street-wise identity, and his superhero identity, which is pretty much Batman in a nutshell. So, outside of the Khonshu supernatural angle, which is sometimes played up and other times completely ignored, how is MK even the slightest bit different than Batman? Originally MK was a mercenary and monster hunter before becoming the Marvel version of Batman. Would it be so horrible to remove some of the psychological aspects and streamline his character a bit? Plenty of psychological changes for Bruce Banner/Hulk without Moon Knight having to be unstable. I think that is the easy way out in characterization to say he is insane. Getting lost/confused within all the differing parts he plays is fine, but insanity takes it a bit too far and into the real world for my enjoyment. It's probably just that I haven't read enough Batman, but I hadn't heard about his street-wise identity, unless The Captain means when he's in costume, which is a pretty different idea to MK's taxi-driver. For me it's the mercenary and monster-hunter backgrounds, as Brutalis called them, that make him unique. Spector comes from a totally different world from Bruce Wayne. As a mercenary, he's seen and done some of the worst things imaginable, participated in dirty wars, etc, and generally lived in a world where trauma, violence, and brutality are everyday facts of life rather than a single character-defining moment. From this perspective I see him as a different, and for me, more serious character than Bruce Wayne - insofar as costumed heroes can be serious. I first encountered MK in the Moench/Perlin Werewolf by Night, so when I mentioned the "supernatural angle" earlier I was thinking of exactly those monster-hunter origins rather than the Khonsu stuff, which has never really meant much to me - and in fact tends to get mixed up with his mental problems by a lot of writers. That supernatural connection opens up whole different world to MK, though I can't say many writers have gone back to it since those early WtB appearances, not even Moench himself. I actually think the similarities to Batman are pretty superficial, except in the sense that almost all "street-level" superheroes resemble one another to some degree - Daredevil and Batman, for example. I suspect it was when Bill Sienkiewicz introduced the flowing, Batman-style cape during his Neal Adams phase that readers started to get that idea, though of course the introduction of the rich guy Steven Grant identity contributed as well.
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