shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,754
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Post by shaxper on Oct 30, 2018 10:12:17 GMT -5
so he, I, and our two roommates made a roadtrip from Indiana, PA to Eide's Comics down in Pittsburgh to pick up this book. While we were down there, we hit a famous local sandwich shop for dinner and just had a great all-around time talking and getting to really know each other a lot better. One of the things we discovered was a shared love of Dungeons & Dragons, so we started a campaign that following weekend that lasted the rest of the semester. In the entire history of midwestern America, has there ever been a road trip to Eide's that didn't make for amazing memories? 😁
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
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Post by Confessor on Oct 30, 2018 11:44:58 GMT -5
Yeah, somewhere like Enfield or central London probably had much better availability of U.S. comics than we did out in the sticks in Buckinghamshire. But I'm pretty sure it would've only been independent newsagent shops that stocked them, and not the big majors like WHSmiths or Martins. WH Smiths in Croydon very definitely did sell American comics in the eighties. Really? It must've just been us out in the sticks that didn't get any U.S. Marvels or DCs in the major newsagents then. I know that we've had this conversation before, about how your location in the UK affected this kind of thing. I do remember that Martin's/Forbuoys near me started carrying U.S. comics in the early '90s, but definitely not before (I know...I looked!).
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 31, 2018 8:44:35 GMT -5
WH Smiths in Croydon very definitely did sell American comics in the eighties. Really? It must've just been us out in the sticks that didn't get any U.S. Marvels or DCs in the major newsagents then. I know that we've had this conversation before, about how your location in the UK affected this kind of thing. I do remember that Martin's/Forbuoys near me started carrying U.S. comics in the early '90s, but definitely not before (I know...I looked!). I think the simple truth is, all the publishers and distributors hated the people of Buckinghamshire.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
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Post by Confessor on Oct 31, 2018 19:18:57 GMT -5
Really? It must've just been us out in the sticks that didn't get any U.S. Marvels or DCs in the major newsagents then. I know that we've had this conversation before, about how your location in the UK affected this kind of thing. I do remember that Martin's/Forbuoys near me started carrying U.S. comics in the early '90s, but definitely not before (I know...I looked!). I think the simple truth is, all the publishers and distributors hated the people of Buckinghamshire. Ha! This could still be going on because for the second Halloween running, I've not seen hide nor hair of the revived Scream! special in any of the local newsagents. It's a conspiracy I tell you!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 1, 2018 2:11:26 GMT -5
So. Marvel and DC's business model has been to try to force retailers to buy product they don't need by making them order a bunch of comics they can never sell in order to get variant covers.
And, gosh, now comic sales are tanking.
How could this obvious bubble economy possibly burst? WHO COULD HAVE EVER SEEN THAT COMING!!!! SHOCK!!! HORROR!!!
God, comics are stupid.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 1, 2018 11:05:46 GMT -5
Maybe the comic buyers are stupid.
( us) 😑
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 1, 2018 17:34:19 GMT -5
So. Marvel and DC's business model has been to try to force retailers to buy product they don't need by making them order a bunch of comics they can never sell in order to get variant covers. And, gosh, now comic sales are tanking. How could this obvious bubble economy possibly burst? WHO COULD HAVE EVER SEEN THAT COMING!!!! SHOCK!!! HORROR!!! God, comics are stupid. But the stories they advertise sound so fresh and inviting! In the latest Extermination crisis on infinite reboots, Major Character Suchandsuch dies! Again!
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 1, 2018 20:36:27 GMT -5
Maybe the comic buyers are stupid. ( us) 😑
I think some of them are, like when someone buys a bargain bin book and thinks slabbing it will turn it into gold. It just doesn't work that way.
Then again, some might think what I do makes me a dumbass too.
Well, @mrp always says that we get the comics that we deserve. But if the dealers are buying thousands of copies just to get a variant to sell, maybe that makes them the dumbass. You don't believe how many new comics ( less than 6 months old) I see in dollar boxes when I go to shows.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 21:00:14 GMT -5
Well it all depends on what they get for the variant. If it is a 1 in 10 variant say, that means they have to buy 10 copies at their cost (say $2) to get that variant. If they sell it at $25, they paid for the 10 copies the ordered, the variant and made $3, and then any of the regular copies that sell at any price are above and beyond that. If they sell 5 of the 10 at cover price ($4) that's $20 more and if they sell the last 5 at $1 each that another $5, so for a $22 investment ($20 for the 10 copies, $2 for the variant copy) they generated $50 of revenue. Depending how much shipping and operating costs are for the store their profits are $28-other expenses. If on the other hand they only ordered the 5 copies they knew they could sell at cover price, they would have paid $10 and made $20 in revenue minus shipping and operating costs. So what's the better deal for them? Now if they sold the variant for cover price ($4) then yes they will lose money), but most price the buy in incentive variants at what it costs to order them + profit margin, so they don't lose money on the variants. It they are liquid enough to survive the time it takes to sell off those copies and the variant, then they are making more than not ordering the variant, but they have to be liquid enough to keep paying their Diamond invoice each week plus all the monthly costs of running a business. Also, the more product you order, the higher the discount tier you become with Diamond, so if you order enough on a regular basis, your cost per book could drop to say $1.50 a copy not $2, etc.
Brian Hibbs has put out there that you need to sell 4 out of every 5 copies you order to make any profit in the comic industry (that includes typical operating costs outside just the cost of the product from Diamond), but if you can cover that by selling 1 variant instead, why wouldn't you if customers are willing to pay for it. Is it a healthy business model for the industry? No. But neither is trying to sell a periodical (pretty much a dead format in the modern marketplace) with limited content to a niche market (that is shrinking since it is based mostly on nostalgia for content and format and its customer base is aging out without new customers coming in with nostalgic ties to the format or content) in destination-only shops that someone not already buying the product as a regular customer will come into, especially when there is so much product being produced for the market that stores cannot afford to stock it beyond the week of release so any potential new customer who walks in won't be able to find anything to get started with in that format that provided a complete and satisfying entertainment experience for a modern consumer. So you do what you can to extend the shelf life of your business ans you sell what your customer base will buy (which is what the whole direct market model is based off of, guaranteed sales to hardcore fans) for as long as that customer base holds on and will bear the product. Growth is not going to happen unless your existing customer base buys more or buys more expensive products, new customers aren't buying into the format or going to become regulars at destination only shops for a format that doesn't appeal to the modern consumer
So yeah, selling expensive variants to hardcore comics fans and speculators may be a recipe for disaster, but what other alternatives do modern comic shops have?
-M
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Post by rberman on Nov 1, 2018 21:23:30 GMT -5
So. Marvel and DC's business model has been to try to force retailers to buy product they don't need by making them order a bunch of comics they can never sell in order to get variant covers. And, gosh, now comic sales are tanking. How could this obvious bubble economy possibly burst? WHO COULD HAVE EVER SEEN THAT COMING!!!! SHOCK!!! HORROR!!! God, comics are stupid. But the stories they advertise sound so fresh and inviting! In the latest Extermination crisis on infinite reboots, Major Character Suchandsuch dies! Again! It was so old that Alan Moore was already parodying it twenty years ago. Yet it keeps happening, which I guess means the shrinking reader base wants to buy it again.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 2, 2018 5:03:54 GMT -5
Whenever I go to see movies, I notice a formula that is used over again. Every format has a formula. Comics keep having crossovers because people respond to it. Who didn't love seeing all the MU heroes together in the first Avengers movie? No one gets angry when every action movie has a chase scene, they keep putting them in because the public likes it.
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 2, 2018 6:06:50 GMT -5
DC had pence variants too.
I assumed everyone knew that. I think others may have done, too. Certainly, at least two of our local newsagents carried Charlton, Harvey and Archie, and I don't recall any of them not having British prices.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 2, 2018 9:12:57 GMT -5
Whenever I go to see movies, I notice a formula that is used over again. Every format has a formula. Comics keep having crossovers because people respond to it. Who didn't love seeing all the MU heroes together in the first Avengers movie? No one gets angry when every action movie has a chase scene, they keep putting them in because the public likes it. Rinse and repeat scenes, stunts or ideas in film des not necessarily mean the public enjoys it, as the movie business has a bad track record of overusing idea--running them into the ground even as they play to largely empty theaters. The 80s / 90s were a good example of that, with the overblown "event" / "action blockbuster" movie filled with loud action, explosions, bad actors popping off puns, and terrible music from 5th rate "rock" or "pop" stars looking for a hit. Eventually, that trend died, but the studios--thinking they know the pulse of audiences--were the last to realize everyone else grew tired and/or annoyed with yet another summer amusement park ride disguised as a film. The same was said about the James Bond franchise, and is being said about superhero films today; who really gets excited for the Marvel movies? How many of their plots are the rehashes of plots from earlier MCU films?
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 2, 2018 10:21:28 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? Look at the box office receipts.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 2, 2018 10:51:40 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? Look at the box office receipts. Inflated ticket prices play a role in that, and I've yet to find anyone making a legitimate argument about how original or fresh Marvel movies are. Believe it or not, that train will derail because its not offering anything so unique that it must be seen, or even remembered that well after watching it.
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