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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 10, 2019 14:02:27 GMT -5
Although Batman and Spider-Man did team up (twice) in the 90s, those crossovers lacked the magic of the early DC/Marvel crossovers. I don't think anything can beat the first four DC/Marvel crossovers (not counting the adaptation of The Wizard of Oz). I so wish a Batman/Spider-Man team-up had been published in the early-to-mid 80s. It's not just about how magical that era was. I did prefer the shared Earth approach of the early DC/Marvel crossovers, it was pretty cool to have it validated that the DC/Marvel heroes lived on the same Earth. The later ones, which adopted the separate universes approach, didn't quite work for me, although I accept that DC vs. Marvel had a certain magic (and beautiful art). And JLA/Avengers worked, too. But I miss the early magic of the shared Earth approach. A Batman/Spidey team-up in the 80s would have been fun! I'd prefer a 70s Batman/Spidey, with a less grim Batman. Imagine Spidey done by Jim Aparo or Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez (PBHN)....
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Post by berkley on Jul 10, 2019 14:09:37 GMT -5
What were the first four Marvel/DC crossovers - was Spider-Man/Superman one of them?
I can't think of any that really appealed much to me, largely because I didn't care for most of the more popular DC characters. If it had been Swamp Thing or the New Gods or the Phantom Stranger or something I would have been interested, but not Batman or Superman.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Jul 10, 2019 14:20:20 GMT -5
2 Superman/Spider-Man crossovers, a Batman/Hulk crossover, and an X-Men/Teen Titans crossover. I had a collected edition with all 4 when I was little.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 14:21:49 GMT -5
2 Superman/Spider-Man crossovers, a Batman/Hulk crossover, and an X-Men/Teen Titans crossover. I like all those, but my favourite is the second Supes/Spidey team-up. I am irked that Superman VS The Amazing Spider-Man cannot claim to be the first DC/Marvel collaboration due to that The Wizard of Oz adaptation. Damn!
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Jul 10, 2019 14:51:37 GMT -5
I thought Dr. Doom made a better 'smart human' villain for Superman than 'mad scientist' Luthor did in that era. His ability to use the law as a shield against Big Blue was a nice forshadowing of what Luthor would become in his post-crisis update.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 14:58:01 GMT -5
I agree. I love the way the Latverian diplomatic immunity came into play.
I also like how they included Hulk and Wonder Woman without making it feel crowded. I felt that Supes and Spidey got equal "screentime". As did Doom and Parasite. And Doom/Parasite was an interesting choice. They could have predictably brought back Luthor and had him team with Green Goblin or someone, but Doom/Parasite was unpredictable.
The shared Earth aspect of those early crossovers led to some cool dialogue. I remember how Wonder Woman discussed how she'd always planned to hunt Spider-Man while Batman mentioned to Commissioner Gordon that he had a file on the Hulk in his Batcave. The separate universes policy means you don't get little moments like that - and means the story can become about how they cross universes initially.
Like I stated earlier, I think DC vs. Marvel and JLA/Avengers had enough fun to make them a good read, but I'm really not a fan of the separate universes policy. I had zero interest in getting bogged down in how DC and Marvel heroes bridged the gap/crossed universes/whatever the terminology was or is.
Also, those DC/Marvel crossovers actually enhanced my enjoyment of decades-old tales. When I read some reprints of the Lee/Ditko Spidey stories (in the late 80s), I was thinking about how cool it was that as Peter Parker was beginning his career, Superman was in the midst of his a few hundred miles away. The separate universes policy is too formal, cold and clinical. It sort of sucked the fun out of things for me.
I'm glad that John Byrne had Batman and Captain America having a shared Earth adventure (even if it wasn't "our" Earth).
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,670
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Post by Confessor on Jul 10, 2019 15:25:33 GMT -5
...not counting the adaptation of The Wizard of Oz).I am irked that Superman VS The Amazing Spider-Man cannot claim to be the first DC/Marvel collaboration due to that The Wizard of Oz adaptation. Damn! I don't know why you would want to discount it or indeed be irked by it: the Marvel/DC Wizard of Oz treasury was a thing of beauty. A great Roy Thomas adaptation of one of the greatest films of the 20th Century, which was based on a certified classic American children's book, presented in an over-sized format, with "top-of-his-game" artwork by John Buscema. What's not to like? Personally, I found the Superman vs Spider-Man treasury to be a load of overhyped fan-service tosh. ...and I say that as someone who loves that era of Spider-Man and is a reasonably big fan of Superman too. I used to own a copy of it, but sold it in the end because it just did nothing for me. Mind you, I generally dislike inter-company team-ups like this anyway, going all the way up to the Avengers/JLA mini-series in the early 2000s. I love Marvel superheroes a lot and I like a few DC ones too, but "never the twain shall meet" is a rule that Marvel and DC should've observed more diligently in my view.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 10, 2019 15:33:27 GMT -5
...not counting the adaptation of The Wizard of Oz).I am irked that Superman VS The Amazing Spider-Man cannot claim to be the first DC/Marvel collaboration due to that The Wizard of Oz adaptation. Damn! I don't know why you would want to discount it or indeed be irked by it: the Marvel/DC Wizard of Oz treasury was a thing of beauty. A great Roy Thomas adaptation of one of the greatest films of the 20th Century, which was based on a certified classic American children's book, presented in an over-sized format, with "top-of-his-game" artwork by John Buscema. What's not to like? Personally, I found the Superman vs Spider-Man treasury to be a load of overhyped fan-service tosh. ...and I say that as someone who loves that era of Spider-Man and is a reasonably big fan of Superman too. I used to own a copy of it, but sold it in the end because it just did nothing for me. I generally dislike inter-company team-ups like this anyway, going all the way up to the Avengers/JLA mini-series in the early 2000s. I love Marvel superheroes a lot and I like a few DC ones too, but "never the twain shall meet" is a rule that Marvel and DC should've observed more diligently in my view. Cuz funnybooks only count if they have heroes in long underwear in them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 15:34:57 GMT -5
Every super-hero comic story should start with the words "Once Upon A Time..."
There I said it!
-M
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 10, 2019 15:37:15 GMT -5
Though I prefer it when intercompany crossovers utilize the shared Earth approach over interuniversal travel, I prefer such stories to be out-of-continuity Elseworlds tales which don't impact the mainline universes. I'm just not a fan of post-COIE-style clutter Earths where everything co-exists regardless of how it all fits together (or doesn't).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 15:43:43 GMT -5
I don't know why you would want to discount it or indeed be irked by it: the Marvel/DC Wizard of Oz treasury was a thing of beauty. A great Roy Thomas adaptation of one of the greatest films of the 20th Century, which was based on a certified classic American children's book, presented in an over-sized format, with "top-of-his-game" artwork by John Buscema. What's not to like? Personally, I found the Superman vs Spider-Man treasury to be a load of overhyped fan-service tosh. ...and I say that as someone who loves that era of Spider-Man and is a reasonably big fan of Superman too. I used to own a copy of it, but sold it in the end because it just did nothing for me. I generally dislike inter-company team-ups like this anyway, going all the way up to the Avengers/JLA mini-series in the early 2000s. I love Marvel superheroes a lot and I like a few DC ones too, but "never the twain shall meet" is a rule that Marvel and DC should've observed more diligently in my view. Cuz funnybooks only count if they have heroes in long underwear in them. Don't take "irked" too literally. There was an emoji at the end. It's hard to convey humour online. In truth, I am irked if my garbage isn't collected or a card payment is declined. I'm not actually irked by an Oz adaptation.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 10, 2019 15:50:14 GMT -5
Cuz funnybooks only count if they have heroes in long underwear in them. Don't take "irked" too literally. There was an emoji at the end. It's hard to convey humour online. In truth, I am irked if my garbage isn't collected or a card payment is declined. I'm not actually irked by an Oz adaptation. It's all good. I was hopeful that you weren't all that irked. I can honestly say that for the most part I dislike inter-company cross-overs. I find them almost universally poorly done. One of the few exceptions was Batman/Captain America.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 17:56:24 GMT -5
I wish DC and Marvel were still collaborating, but they did overdo it a tad. I mean, I'm not sure I ever had a yearning for the Superman/Silver Surfer crossover. Nor did it set my world alight.
Darkseid vs. Galactus: The Hunger is certainly one I liked, though. The idea of Galactus coming to "feast" on Apokolips did get me rather dizzy and excited. And I thought it was done very well.
I was sad that, in 2016, DC and Marvel didn't collaborate on a third Supes/Spidey crossover. That would have been the perfect way to commemorate the 40th anniversary of Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man.
If DC and Marvel ever collaborate again (I suspect there's more chance of the Loch Ness Monster eating the Yeti), it'd be nice to see. There are obvious choices like Captain America/Wonder Woman (set during WWII), but they could do something else, I suppose.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 10, 2019 18:47:36 GMT -5
What were the first four Marvel/DC crossovers - was Spider-Man/Superman one of them? I can't think of any that really appealed much to me, largely because I didn't care for most of the more popular DC characters. If it had been Swamp Thing or the New Gods or the Phantom Stranger or something I would have been interested, but not Batman or Superman. The team-ups go like this: The Wizard of Oz-1975 Superman vs The Amazing Spider-Man-1976 Superman and Spider-Man-April 1981 Batman vs The Incredible Hulk-Fall 1981 Uncanny X-Men and the New Teen Titans-Summer 1982 Justice League of America vs The Avengers-aborted, approved in 1979, begun in 1981, scheduled for 1983 publication. Shooter rejected the story until Perez had to move on. New Teen Titans and Uncanny X-Men-Scheduled for 1983-cancelled, in wake of fighting over JLA-Avengers Legion of Superheroes and X-Men-announced, though dropped in wake of other fights. The next wave begins in 1994. Batman/Punisher and Punisher/Batman (each company put out their own take on a meeting, with different creative teams)-1994 1995: Darkseid vs Galactus: The Hunger Green Lantern/Sliver Surfer: Unholy Alliance Spider-Man and Batman: Disordered Minds 1996: Superman vs The Amazing Spider-Man and Uncanny X-Men & the New Teen Titans reprinted. DC vs Marvel Amalgam comics (6 from each company) DC/Marvel: All-Access Silver Surfer/Superman Batman and Captain America 1997: Daredevil/Batman: Eye for an Eye Amalgam II (6 from each, again) Batman & Spider-Man: New Age Dawning 1999: Incredible Hulk vs Superman Superman/Fantastic four: the Infinite Destruction 2000: Batman/Daredevil: King of New York 2003: JLA/Avengers After that, DC and Marvel stopped acting like adults. Mark Gruenwald and Mike Carlin were the real instigators of the 90s co-operation, as Carlin had been Gruenwald's assistant. Gruenwald died in 1996 and Carlin was no longer Executive Editor, after 2002. Both companies also co-operated with other companies, with crossovers, during that time frame.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 10, 2019 19:17:27 GMT -5
Doctor Strange and the Silver Surfer are more interesting characters than Green Lantern and the Flash (both of whom I do like) and should be more popular. Not every character needs to be grounded in a real world vocation and look like a male model circa 1981 Sears catalog.
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