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Post by Trevor on Jul 10, 2019 20:17:45 GMT -5
I tend to love the intercompany crossovers, and collect them all. All superhero comics are silly, and with these crossovers it’s easier to ignore the pretense of thinking they’re more than they are, and just enjoy the fun.
Great post documenting the history of the crossovers cody, it sucks that Marvel and DC can’t play nice anymore.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 10, 2019 20:20:49 GMT -5
Yeah, it's sad that we'll never get anything as magical as Who Framed Roger Rabbit? ever again. Polarization ain't just confined to politics.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 10, 2019 21:59:49 GMT -5
I wonder why they can't get along any more... is it just IP protection? DC seems happy to cross over with indies (I really liked the 1st Batman/TMNT crossover, and plan to get the others at some point.. Conan/Wonder Woman, not so much), and there's all those franchise ones... why not Marvel?
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 10, 2019 22:36:03 GMT -5
Yeah, it's sad that we'll never get anything as magical as Who Framed Roger Rabbit? ever again. Polarization ain't just confined to politics. There goes that dream of a Galactus, Matter-Eater Lad and Herbie Popnecker chowdown showdown at Nathan's at Coney Island! ![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRAfDPJRxGI9pMDMZlG_KEA-KrGCUJf6GUx8FyijoI8-YAkzdr)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 23:56:10 GMT -5
I wonder why they can't get along any more... is it just IP protection? DC seems happy to cross over with indies (I really liked the 1st Batman/TMNT crossover, and plan to get the others at some point.. Conan/Wonder Woman, not so much), and there's all those franchise ones... why not Marvel? There's two factors at play beyond the corporate rivalry and the fact the editorial regimes of Marvel and Dc do not like each other, and that is the market strategy and benchmarks for success in the current market. The current market strategy of Marvel and DC is to sell the shared universe sandbox and line of comics, not individual comics or characters*. Any project they are going to allocate resources (A-list creative talent, marketing money, etc.) needs to sell the shared universe and/or promote sales across the line, not just the title in question. A big project may hit 150K in sales for the first issue between variants and #1 hype, and they want that to promote the MU or DCU, or to bump sales on ancillary titles titles in the line. War of the Realms will sell issues of Thor/Avengers/one-shots what have you and get people excited about the MU as a whole, Captain America/Wonder Woman will not, and you have to understand their primary product is not individual titles but the shared universe sandbox. A cross-over title hits none of the tentpoles of their market strategy, so isn't going to get greenlit. Second is how they measure benchmarks of success-it is not about total sales or total revenue-the market doesn't move enough units to make that a viable benchmark anymore. In the past, an intercompany cross-over would move units and units moved was the benchmark, so both companies could use the sales of such as a benchmark of success. Currently the benchmark of success for Marvel is marketshare compared to DC (and conversely, DC's benchmark for success is marketshare vs. Marvel). The market is not healthy enough to move enough units to tout unit sales of individual books as a measure of success (unless you get a Star Wars bump, a Loot Crate bump, or some other anomaly that drives up unit sales on a particular issue, but it never lasts more then a single issue, so is a fleeting benchmark. Instead they look at how well are we selling compared to the competition (and only the big two are big enough players to count in this comparison as the #3 publisher-Image barely accounts for 10% of the marketshare most months. Doing an intercompany cross-over with their main rival will result only in a push in marketshare, and will help their rival potentially increase their marketshare which hurts their own benchmark of success. DC will prop their marketshare total doing inter-company cross-overs with the likes of IDW, Dynamite or Dark Horse because it doesn't also increase MArvel's marketshare, andMArvel will share sales with IDW on the Marvel Action Heroes line and YA Star Wars books because it increases their marketshare but not DC's. Marketshare is the only benchmark of success that the publishers can sell to the higher ups to indicate they are successful in the current market. Unit sales are not robust. Margins are slim. There is little growth in the direct market except to flood the shelves with books or prop sales with reboots, relaunces, #1, events and line-wide crossovers, so you have to sell your success (or failure) based on ow much you gained or lost vs.your competitor, which is why every monthly press release about Diamond sales charts leads with marketshare and who had the most books in the top 10. An intercompany cross-over that funnels sales and shelf space to your primary competitor hurts the bottom line of your primary benchmark for success. This is the reality of the direct market in 2019. Even is Disney and AT&T/Warner kissed and made up and Marvel editorial and DC editorial became bosom buddies, the current marketing strategy and benchmarks for success in the marketplace in play make Marvel/DC cross-overs non-starters until the reality of the market changes and the benchmarks to measure/justify their respective levels of success are modified. And don't hold your breath waiting for either of those two things to happen. It's a different market, and a different set of rules and operating procedures within that market than it was in the 70s-90s when those cross-overs were viable products. And that's not even getting into a discussion of how the rise to prominence of branding in the 21st century marketplace makes it a taboo business practice to merge your brand with a competitor on any product... -M *DC it seems is backing off this just a tad with the realization that there is growth potential in standalone titles that can become evergreen sellers in the book trade and have made some moves in that direction, but those titles are not part of their main periodical line of shared universe sandbox, and the main thrust of their mainline of periodical sales remains the shared universe of the DCU rather than a single title or character because that is the proven commodity among the direct market customer base.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 11, 2019 1:31:15 GMT -5
I tend to love the intercompany crossovers, and collect them all. All superhero comics are silly, and with these crossovers it’s easier to ignore the pretense of thinking they’re more than they are, and just enjoy the fun. Great post documenting the history of the crossovers cody, it sucks that Marvel and DC can’t play nice anymore. So these things tend to be desperation moves when sales of both companies are tanking. So cheer up, we should be seeing the Prankster vs. Stilt-Man any day now!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 11, 2019 5:57:19 GMT -5
I guess it depends on how much money both companies can make from these types of crossovers, weighed against the headache that might follow. I don't think Time Warner or Disney cares at all about comics.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 10:11:24 GMT -5
I guess it depends on how much money both companies can make from these types of crossovers, weighed against the headache that might follow. I don't think Time Warner or Disney cares at all about comics. I was told that and sad that these companies don't want to do them anymore and I'm very UNHAPPY about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 10:47:54 GMT -5
I'd like to see DC's Scarecrow VS Marvel's Scarecrow in a story titled "Scarecrow".
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 11, 2019 10:56:46 GMT -5
I'd like to see DC's Scarecrow VS Marvel's Scarecrow in a story titled "Scarecrow". With special guest star, Matthew the Raven. Tonight's episode: Crow Scares.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 11, 2019 11:39:05 GMT -5
Cameo by Worzel Gummidge?
I think if the JLA-Avengers cross-over had've been done when originally intended I'd have enjoyed that, but not really been interested in the others. The old JSA-JLA yearly cross-over seemed a much bigger event to me somehow. I had the X-Men-Teen Titans one once and remember nothing about the story, just some Walt Simonson imagery.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 11:40:37 GMT -5
If they ever did a crossover again (unlikely, I know), I'd like two very different characters. It's easy for someone like myself to come up with Hawkeye/Green Arrow or Daredevil/Batman, but how about Aquaman/Ghost Rider or something where you have a contrast?
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Post by The Captain on Jul 11, 2019 12:13:36 GMT -5
If they ever did a crossover again (unlikely, I know), I'd like two very different characters. It's easy for someone like myself to come up with Hawkeye/Green Arrow or Daredevil/Batman, but how about Aquaman/Ghost Rider or something where you have a contrast? Or how about Superman and Deadpool in a buddy comedy that ends after three panels with Supes getting fed up with his uber-annoying partner and reaching through Wilson's chest and pulling his spine out through the front? This would also be an acceptable result to a Superman/Rick Jones pairing.
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 11, 2019 13:54:49 GMT -5
I still want a She-Hulk/Ambush Bug crossover, dagnabbit!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 14:02:31 GMT -5
Just about the only cross-over that might get me to buy in would be a Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love special with Millie the Model and Snapper Carr.
Or possibly an Ace the Bathound and Redwing super spectacular or even a Streeky/Goose adventure.
-M
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