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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:47:54 GMT -5
In fairness, if you're 50 and earning a very comfortable living, hard to still have that hunger like you have in your younger years. It might still be a notion, but you've got family, you've got the trappings of success, and you're a little (or a lot) more tired. I can probably play guitar better today than I did in my early 20's, but there's NO way I'm going to sit down and attempt to write and record a serious album even though it's never been easier for me to do so in terms of resources. Play with the kids, go play golf, fancy dinner as a celebrity...or sit at the typewriter and work through a novel. Not the same as when you are 25, full of youthful vigor ready to take on the world and all the hours in the day to do so. If it's a hobby, sure. But artists need to continue their art. If he was just writing for a pay check, it makes sense, but authors continue to write well into their senior years. They don't give it up because they are comfortable. If this was his attitude, he did not have the Great American Novel in him. Sure, and also to that point, many people also think they had a big dream in their younger years but then fall into other activities and sometimes are very successful like Stan was. Was he REALLY locked in on the Great American Novel to your point or was it more a notion that further faded as his career took the direction it did? But let's take the novelists who keep working into their senior years. If they were producing actual novels in their younger years, it's not as hard to keep that machine going in your later years. Everything that I developed as a strong professional and hobby skill in my 20's and 30's is like riding a bike at this point for me. While I'm at a point in my life that I'm burnt out a bit (a lot really) in the corporate world, not even remotely seeing my ability to actually perform my job start to decline (knock on wood!). Health willing, I don't see an end in sight if I wanted to keep going for many more years (though I have no hunger for the next promotion or to start up a business of my own unless in the spirit of the Hobbits it's party business). I'm just thinking Stan may have gotten comfortable, and being more the marketer/promoter personality was a well-developed talent by that point, often the path of least resistance is where life takes people. If all you know is writing novels, you're probably going to keep riding that wave. If you've "never gotten around" to that great novel, the currents are going to tend to run a lot harder against you ever getting there as the years pass by (not saying impossible, people have done it). But again, I agree, it may be that Stan never wrote it because he liked the idea more than actually making it a reality. Happens to lots of folks in life. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:50:25 GMT -5
I read one of Alan Sugar’s books a few years ago. He was pondering the idea of a “senior version” of The Apprentice, with people over 50 competing for a job or business opportunity. But he had misgivings about the drive contestants might have at 50+. I know we’ve probably already some business guru’s words about how this writer or that write wrote their first novel at 70, or someone set up a business at 65. And there are going to be occurrences like that, but I do feel what @jaska has said is true. I reinvented myself in my '40s from computer professional to comic book historian and published my first book at 61 so it can and does happen.
Cei-U! Just sayin'!
I love hearing stories like this! I definitely was not refuting that people can and do accomplish this, and what you described is a great example. I've also just seen MANY people over the years not succeed with making that kind of change. Which makes your accomplishment all that more impressive in my mind  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:54:35 GMT -5
Yes, hopefully it didn’t read like I was refuting it, either. I think the problem I have is gurus spouting inspirational life advice without having lived it themself. If I wanted advice on reinvention, Cei-U! (and others) would be my go to, but not necessarily some life coach guru and/or televangelist who is merely spouting words based on a course they’ve done. Real-life anecdotes are better! |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 13, 2023 9:12:57 GMT -5
I was a commercial artist and billboard painter for 20+ years and had my first Gallery painting exhibit at 47. I started doing plein air work at 50 and continue to work on/struggle with that skill in my 60s. Artists are not compelled by success, they are compelled by their art.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 13, 2023 10:57:18 GMT -5
In fairness, if you're 50 and earning a very comfortable living, hard to still have that hunger like you have in your younger years. It might still be a notion, but you've got family, you've got the trappings of success, and you're a little (or a lot) more tired. Excellent point. Art, or being an artist does not mean you are divorced from the human process of peak interest eventually wearing down, particularly if one was as prolific as Lee, which not only included writing, but management, trying to innovate in a business that (where superheroes were concerned) resisted change, and growing a signficant part of an industry. Others did not have all of that on their shoulders, so the fact he still excelled well to the end of the 60s says he was a formidable talent, but his interest would not be as strong. That is a natural course of life no matter the profession. Regarding Spider-Man, that series truly became a cultural phenomenon (and dethroned F.F. as Marvel's top selling title) after the Ditko era. The stories took dramactic directions and naturally evolved characters in ways that struck a powerful chord with maturing readers, with the trials of Parker and his other half being relatable, which was rare for books about people in costumes. Lee was an assured talent on the book, but Romita's historic, game-changing interpretation of Spider-Man (and his own plotting strengths) made TASM the Marvel title. TASM was not going to evolve that way under the influence of Ditko, who seemed to fail at understanding how young people do evolve and their world was increasingly complicated and dark. The Spider-Man who became a licensing bonanza / face of Marvel was the one described above, and Lee most certainly had much to do with that. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 13, 2023 11:11:34 GMT -5
I lost interest in making art long before I became 50. Of course, I've never been successful at anything, either.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 11:17:03 GMT -5
I lost interest in making art long before I became 50. Of course, I've never been successful at anything, either. Not to get too philosophical here, but honestly, I think just living every day and getting to 50 and beyond is more successful than we sometimes give ourselves credit for. |
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Post by impulse on Mar 13, 2023 11:31:34 GMT -5
Agreed. I have a hard time faulting a creative type for not keeping up with the volume and quality of output they had in their primes. Life is hard, you get tired. Some folks still have the drive but have tapped the well dry of the good stuff, etc.
If Stan was pulling in comfy money by that point I couldn't fault the guy for coasting. I've never fully felt like I recovered back to 100% after doing grad school on nights and weekends while working full time, and I doubt anything I do is as high-pressure as building a company and developing an industry with the perpetual time-crunch of periodicals.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 13, 2023 11:58:06 GMT -5
Some folks still have the drive but have tapped the well dry of the good stuff, etc. That certainly happened to Kriby, Ditko, DeCarlo, Torres and other artists who eventually became rough or watered down versions of not only their artistic skill, but the creative vision which used to fuel their approach to work. That's the key: Lee was building his end of the industry in ways few understood (and gave exposure to artists who may not have been known at any point in their careers if not for the direction and direcitves of Lee, et al.), yet he was still able create great stories. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 13, 2023 12:12:27 GMT -5
Well done. You’ve written for TwoMorrows, right? Anything further planned with them? Not at the moment. I've just started doing research for a history of the Crestwood/Prize line (Prize Comics, Young Romance, Justice Traps the Guilty, Frankenstein, etc) that I'm going to pitch to TwoMorrows once I've got a functional outline and a couple of sample chapters to show them. Given the health issues that cost me the second ACBC book, I don't want to make a commitment until I'm confident I can meet it, y'know?
Cei-U! I summon the cautious optimism!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 12:31:54 GMT -5
Well done. You’ve written for TwoMorrows, right? Anything further planned with them? Not at the moment. I've just started doing research for a history of the Crestwood/Prize line (Prize Comics, Young Romance, Justice Traps the Guilty, Frankenstein, etc) that I'm going to pitch to TwoMorrows once I've got a functional outline and a couple of sample chapters to show them. Given the health issues that cost me the second ACBC book, I don't want to make a commitment until I'm confident I can meet it, y'know?
Cei-U! I summon the cautious optimism!
may be tired of me saying this because I post this every time the topic comes up (sorry!), but his American Comic Book Chronicles: 1940-1944 is hands down my favorite Golden Age reference book. I bought it before I joined here and it was a very pleasant surprise to find I was conversing with the author here! So along the lines of the topic at hand, I'm glad you were successful in making that career shift, obviously you were destined for this work! |
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Post by MDG on Mar 13, 2023 13:32:36 GMT -5
Stan wanted to write the great American novel and maybe other comics writers did too, so they wrote like novelists. That played a significant role in elevating the comic book--the superhero book in particular--to the game-changing levels that appealed to a maturing readership no longer satisfied with simplistic action with no real progressive story structure, or Mort Weisinger-level, creatively empty kiddie crap. Maybe, but it also led to too many stories filled with ham-handed dialog, narration, or internal monologue, with an emphasis on telling not showing. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 13, 2023 13:44:49 GMT -5
Not at the moment. I've just started doing research for a history of the Crestwood/Prize line (Prize Comics, Young Romance, Justice Traps the Guilty, Frankenstein, etc) that I'm going to pitch to TwoMorrows once I've got a functional outline and a couple of sample chapters to show them. Given the health issues that cost me the second ACBC book, I don't want to make a commitment until I'm confident I can meet it, y'know?
Cei-U! I summon the cautious optimism!
may be tired of me saying this because I post this every time the topic comes up (sorry!), but his American Comic Book Chronicles: 1940-1944 is hands down my favorite Golden Age reference book. I bought it before I joined here and it was a very pleasant surprise to find I was conversing with the author here! So along the lines of the topic at hand, I'm glad you were successful in making that career shift, obviously you were destined for this work! Dude, I will never get tired of you saying it.
Cei-U! I summon the ego-boo!
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 13, 2023 15:10:19 GMT -5
That certainly happened to Kriby, Ditko, DeCarlo, Torres and other artists who eventually became rough or watered down versions of not only their artistic skill, but the creative vision which used to fuel their approach to work. Of course I disagree that The Fourth World, Kamandi, The Demon and The Eternals were watered down creative visions. |
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 13, 2023 15:32:02 GMT -5
That certainly happened to Kriby, Ditko, DeCarlo, Torres and other artists who eventually became rough or watered down versions of not only their artistic skill, but the creative vision which used to fuel their approach to work. Of course I disagree that The Fourth World, Kamandi, The Demon and The Eternals were watered down creative visions. I was not talking about The Fourth World material, or not necessarily referring to Kamandi, but the rest into the late 70s and beyond--I disagree. |
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