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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 12, 2023 19:08:03 GMT -5
I think in hindsight we could see Stan needed an editor not himself. I liked Stan's dialog and writing, but there are times a few balloons, thought bubbles and boxes could have been cut. There wasn't a single writer working for the Big Two in the '60s and '70s--except *maybe* Archie Goodwin--who wouldn't have benefited from a good hard-nosed editor.
Cei-U! I summon the simple truth!
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Post by badwolf on Mar 12, 2023 19:58:56 GMT -5
Stan wanted to write the great American novel and maybe other comics writers did too, so they wrote like novelists.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 12, 2023 21:56:48 GMT -5
Stan wanted to write the great American novel and maybe other comics writers did too, so they wrote like novelists. That played a significant role in elevating the comic book--the superhero book in particular--to the game-changing levels that appealed to a maturing readership no longer satisfied with simplistic action with no real progressive story structure, or Mort Weisinger-level, creatively empty kiddie crap. |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 13, 2023 5:30:04 GMT -5
There wasn't a single writer working for the Big Two in the '60s and '70s--except *maybe* Archie Goodwin--who wouldn't have benefited from a good hard-nosed editor.
(...) Totally agree. Although I'd probably remove the 'maybe' qualification for Goodwin. He really was a cut above everybody else back then. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 7:06:16 GMT -5
While Spider-Man is my favorite superhero of all time, I would much rather go back and read the first 300 issues of the Fantastic Four than the first issues of ASM.
The first 30 issues or so of each however is an entirely different matter!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 7:12:27 GMT -5
While Spider-Man is my favorite superhero of all time, I would much rather go back and read the first 300 issues of the Fantastic Four than the first issues of ASM. The first 30 issues or so of each however is an entirely different matter! Thanks to Marvel Unlimited, I try to vary what I read. I might read 2 issues of The Amazing Spider-Man on a Saturday night. But the next day, I’ll go with something completely different, like The Mighty Thor, a New Universe title, or Droids. I feel too much of anything can be no good. I did “devour” some of the Essential and Showcase volumes back in the day - and that was a mistake. Same with The Judge Dredd Case Files. Hours of Dredd shooting at people in Mega-City One becomes tedious. Issue after issue of the Hulk battling the USAF in New Mexico, and then the threat of the month, is tedious. At least variety helps keep me interested. So if I read Spidey VS Vulture, it’s nice that the issue I read after might be Thor getting his clock cleaned in Asgard, or R2-D2 and C-3PO running away from something. |
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Post by commond on Mar 13, 2023 7:44:48 GMT -5
While Spider-Man is my favorite superhero of all time, I would much rather go back and read the first 300 issues of the Fantastic Four than the first issues of ASM. The first 30 issues or so of each however is an entirely different matter! I happily read ASM up until the point where I originally quit the title, which was some point before Carnage was introduced and his parents returned. With Fantastic Four, I'm not that interested in the early years until the inking improves, then I think the classic Lee/Kirby era extends past the point where most people cap it. I really dislike their later stuff, however, and aside from the build up to issue #200, don't see much merit in the title until Byrne takes over. I bought the post-Byrne run off the stands and was into the Defalco/Ryan run, but I'd go with ASM over FF any day of the week. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:05:02 GMT -5
While Spider-Man is my favorite superhero of all time, I would much rather go back and read the first 300 issues of the Fantastic Four than the first issues of ASM. The first 30 issues or so of each however is an entirely different matter! I happily read ASM up until the point where I originally quit the title, which was some point before Carnage was introduced and his parents returned. With Fantastic Four, I'm not that interested in the early years until the inking improves, then I think the classic Lee/Kirby era extends past the point where most people cap it. I really dislike their latter stuff, however, and aside from the build up to issue #200, don't see much merit in the title until Byrne takes over. I bought the post-Byrne run off the stands and was into the Defalco/Ryan run, but I'd go with ASM over FF any day of the week. Totally appreciate folks are going to come at this from different angles! To elaborate on my preference for the overall run of FF, I pretty much enjoyed every era. Yes, classic Lee/Kirby/Sinnott was the bee's knees, but I love how the team kept going in the 70's. You've still got awesome villains like for example Annihilus and the appearance of Thundra, and totally LOVE the era when Medusa took Sue's place for a time (one of my favorite incarnations of the team even though I'm glad they finally went back to normal). Their stories still seemed pretty epic for the most part. And then the Byrne era in the 80's (at least until the latter part) was way more exciting to me than Spidey at that point (though I did like Hobgoblin). ASM just felt like the most amazing debut era followed by a slow burn downward...Ditko era was incredible, Romita was not as innovative when it came to the rogues but had a massively popular art style and some folks liked Pete's development as a character (not me though, I liked him better as a Reed Richards junior than a "hep cat"). But then it just seemed very lackluster after that, just waiting for a classic rogue to finally show up (and sometimes even then it got really weird like Doc Ock wooing Aunt May). Though Ross Andru and Keith Pollard both put up excellent artwork, still enjoyed that aspect. Gil Kane too of course! |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 13, 2023 8:05:54 GMT -5
Stan wanted to write the great American novel and maybe other comics writers did too, so they wrote like novelists. Or so he said. More Stan Lee grandiosity? He was barely 50 when he stopped writing comics, and yet he did not write any novels. Great American or otherwise. He did not keep writing, his career became the promotion of Stan Lee. |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 13, 2023 8:11:00 GMT -5
Not too say anything against the first 100 issues of ASM, but I would vote for the first 100 issues of FF as the best run. Though I don't think the FF really took off until the 30s. So first 30 issues go to Spider-man. Actually first 33 issues, because ASM could have ended with issue #33 and would still be the greatest series of all time.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:15:34 GMT -5
Stan wanted to write the great American novel and maybe other comics writers did too, so they wrote like novelists. Or so he said. More Stan Lee grandiosity? He was barely 50 when he stopped writing comics, and yet he did not write any novels. Great American or otherwise. He did not keep writing, his career became the promotion of Stan Lee. In fairness, if you're 50 and earning a very comfortable living, hard to still have that hunger like you have in your younger years. It might still be a notion, but you've got family, you've got the trappings of success, and you're a little (or a lot) more tired. I can probably play guitar better today than I did in my early 20's, but there's NO way I'm going to sit down and attempt to write and record a serious album even though it's never been easier for me to do so in terms of resources. Play with the kids, go play golf, fancy dinner as a celebrity...or sit at the typewriter and work through a novel. Not the same as when you are 25, full of youthful vigor ready to take on the world and all the hours in the day to do so. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:20:09 GMT -5
I read one of Alan Sugar’s books a few years ago. He was pondering the idea of a “senior version” of The Apprentice, with people over 50 competing for a job or business opportunity. But he had misgivings about the drive contestants might have at 50+.
I know we’ve probably already some business guru’s words about how this writer or that write wrote their first novel at 70, or someone set up a business at 65. And there are going to be occurrences like that, but I do feel what @jaska has said is true.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 13, 2023 8:31:06 GMT -5
Or so he said. More Stan Lee grandiosity? He was barely 50 when he stopped writing comics, and yet he did not write any novels. Great American or otherwise. He did not keep writing, his career became the promotion of Stan Lee. In fairness, if you're 50 and earning a very comfortable living, hard to still have that hunger like you have in your younger years. It might still be a notion, but you've got family, you've got the trappings of success, and you're a little (or a lot) more tired. I can probably play guitar better today than I did in my early 20's, but there's NO way I'm going to sit down and attempt to write and record a serious album even though it's never been easier for me to do so in terms of resources. Play with the kids, go play golf, fancy dinner as a celebrity...or sit at the typewriter and work through a novel. Not the same as when you are 25, full of youthful vigor ready to take on the world and all the hours in the day to do so. If it's a hobby, sure. But artists need to continue their art. If he was just writing for a pay check, it makes sense, but authors continue to write well into their senior years. They don't give it up because they are comfortable. If this was his attitude, he did not have the Great American Novel in him. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 13, 2023 8:44:51 GMT -5
I read one of Alan Sugar’s books a few years ago. He was pondering the idea of a “senior version” of The Apprentice, with people over 50 competing for a job or business opportunity. But he had misgivings about the drive contestants might have at 50+. I know we’ve probably already some business guru’s words about how this writer or that write wrote their first novel at 70, or someone set up a business at 65. And there are going to be occurrences like that, but I do feel what @jaska has said is true. I reinvented myself in my '40s from computer professional to comic book historian and published my first book at 61 so it can and does happen.
Cei-U! Just sayin'!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2023 8:47:28 GMT -5
Well done. You’ve written for TwoMorrows, right? Anything further planned with them?
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