|
|
Post by MDG on Jun 8, 2023 7:57:46 GMT -5
...despite the fact that the vast majority of books since 1990(?) probably will not appreciate.  (photo taken this past Sunday) Is this your table ? I've been selling my Hulk collection online starting at 1.99 per three issues. They mostly go for 1.99 at the end. It's a buyers market most of the time. No, not mine--flea market where it seems more and more dealers have boxes of (usually) 1990 and up stuff for a dollar. To be fair, there is certainly no shortage of DVDs and CDs for a buck apiece at dozens of tables.
My one comic purchase that day was an unbagged, but nice, 15-cent Dell Uncle Scrooge from 1961 for a buck.
|
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jun 9, 2023 18:24:24 GMT -5
Is this your table ? I've been selling my Hulk collection online starting at 1.99 per three issues. They mostly go for 1.99 at the end. It's a buyers market most of the time. No, not mine--flea market where it seems more and more dealers have dollar boxes of (usually) 1990 and up stuff for a dollar. To be fair, there is certainly no shortage of DVDs and CDs for a buck apiece at dozens of tables.
My one comic purchase that day was an unbagged, but nice, 15-cent Dell Uncle Scrooge from 1961 for a buck.
Usually most people at the flea market have no clue what they have and overvalue it. I had a guy who wanted to sell me a PS1 game for 20 or 30 dollars simply because he'd "never seen it before" and therefor it surely must have been rare!
If I do go to the Flea Market, it usually is for comics. Mobile has seen it's fair share of comic book stores and most of them have gone under except the one in the Flea Market and it only closed up because the owner passed
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2023 6:54:38 GMT -5
I like the words “flea market”, I’m gonna presume our closest equivalent is a car boot sale. Well, Batflunkie, I have come across people (this was years ago) who tried to overvalue wrestling videotapes. “Oh, this is rare, you know…” A lot of them were spouting bullshit because the tapes certainly were not rare, most the tapes I saw sold were in almost every video store I went in, plus available via mail order. Makes you wonder, did I look stupid to these sellers? (Probably) |
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jun 10, 2023 7:12:18 GMT -5
I like the words “flea market”, I’m gonna presume our closest equivalent is a car boot sale. Yeah, they're pretty much the same thing.
Cei-U! I summon the now-defunct Starlite Swap Meet!
|
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 10, 2023 11:31:06 GMT -5
I like the words “flea market”, I’m gonna presume our closest equivalent is a car boot sale. Yeah, they're pretty much the same thing.
Cei-U! I summon the now-defunct Starlite Swap Meet!
Except there is usually a permanent structure involved. In some parts of the country, they are big buildings that draw big crowds. |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,206 
|
Post by Confessor on Jun 10, 2023 19:05:45 GMT -5
I like the words “flea market”, I’m gonna presume our closest equivalent is a car boot sale. No, the closest English equivalent is flea market. They've been around in the UK a lot longer than car boot sales, which only really became a thing in the early '90s. As Cody says, flea markets are usually a fixed marketplace for unwanted used goods, sometimes with a semi-permanent structure attached and usually with many of the same sellers returning time after time. Car boot sales, on the other hand, are usually just held in a field and have random folks literally selling stuff out of their car boots (or on a table next to their car boot). |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 16:31:51 GMT -5
I was a wee bit late with the 1st appearance of Spider-Gwen in Edge of Spider-Verse #2, partly because I wasn't too sold on the idea of either her or Miles Morales in Spidey suits. So when I finally decided to get some copies the price had ballooned to $40+ for the regular 1st print. I picked up 4 at the time, as well as the 1:25 variant (which is another story)....
It turns out 2 of the copies I got were 'error variants' which were printed on a solid black background instead of the regular maroon cover. They didn't know it was an error cover, neither did I, I just thought it was a variant. I was offered 25x what I paid for one copy but declined because I like seeing that guy sweat and think it has a lot more potential to it.
I never thought either Miles or Gwen would be such a hit but the recent movie says otherwise. Glad I got these books and the premium I paid actually worked in my favour.
|
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Jun 13, 2023 17:59:28 GMT -5
A monthly periodical, at any price (despite what all those complaining that it's cover price keeping people away) is a dinosaur format in the current market, something that keeps customers away because of the format. While I don't think the cover price caused the market decline, it is certainly a factor in speeding up the death spiral because it is keeping away some of the people in the small niche market who are actually interested in the material and might otherwise buy them. Source? Me. It's me. I'm a people in the niche who are otherwise interested who stopped buying due to the relatively exorbitant pricing/poor value prop. I know it's not how we got here, but it sure isn't helping. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 19:47:54 GMT -5
A monthly periodical, at any price (despite what all those complaining that it's cover price keeping people away) is a dinosaur format in the current market, something that keeps customers away because of the format. While I don't think the cover price caused the market decline, it is certainly a factor in speeding up the death spiral because it is keeping away some of the people in the small niche market who are actually interested in the material and might otherwise buy them. Source? Me. It's me. I'm a people in the niche who are otherwise interested who stopped buying due to the relatively exorbitant pricing/poor value prop. I know it's not how we got here, but it sure isn't helping. I'm not sure how comic fans expect companies to afford putting out product for less than $1 per issue ($4 cover price means distributor buys it from the publisher for $1 and sells it for $2). Especially in a niche market where print runs are under $50k for most books, which means a book with 50K sales will net a publisher $50 in which they have to pay for the writer, penciller, inker, letterer, colorist, editor, production department, printing costs, transportation costs, storage costs, marketing costs, and all their infrastructure costs. If prices were lower, there would be no functioning publishers and no one making comics would make a living wage. But none of that matters if I can't get my cheap fix of super-hero stories so it's the publishers fault for charging too much. Go on twitter and read the #comicsboke me hashtag posts about how little comics folk are making in the current market place, much of it because publishers margins are so fricking small and parent companies like Disney don't share revenue from other media to the publishing arms making comics so they have to survive on actual publishing revenue. Most print publications have seen cover price increase that have outstripped comics, but for some reason comic fans expect comics to operate like it's 1985 instead of 2023 when none of the economic factors that allowed comics to operate the way they did in 1985 are true anymore. I get times are tough and customers are resistant to price increases, but to expect comics to operate at a loss just to put stuff out at MSRP they will accept is delusional. But publishers are delusional as well because they keep catering to a customer base that won't buy their products. Both parties need to move on. -M |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 20:13:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure how comic fans expect companies to afford putting out product for less than $1 per issue ($4 cover price means distributor buys it from the publisher for $1 and sells it for $2). Especially in a niche market where print runs are under $50k for most books, which means a book with 50K sales will net a publisher $50 in which they have to pay for the writer, penciller, inker, letterer, colorist, editor, production department, printing costs, transportation costs, storage costs, marketing costs, and all their infrastructure costs.
We regularly get casual buyers who think 'dollar bin' books remain at a dollar for everything else that's brand new. They do not care about cover price or cost or overhead, they care about their frugality and hoping we will bend to their budgets.
The way I respond to them depends on how much they get on my nerves.
|
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Jun 13, 2023 21:23:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure how comic fans expect companies to afford putting out product for less than $1 per issue ($4 cover price means distributor buys it from the publisher for $1 and sells it for $2). Especially in a niche market where print runs are under $50k for most books, which means a book with 50K sales will net a publisher $50 in which they have to pay for the writer, penciller, inker, letterer, colorist, editor, production department, printing costs, transportation costs, storage costs, marketing costs, and all their infrastructure costs. If prices were lower, there would be no functioning publishers and no one making comics would make a living wage. But none of that matters if I can't get my cheap fix of super-hero stories so it's the publishers fault for charging too much. Go on twitter and read the #comicsboke me hashtag posts about how little comics folk are making in the current market place, much of it because publishers margins are so fricking small and parent companies like Disney don't share revenue from other media to the publishing arms making comics so they have to survive on actual publishing revenue. Most print publications have seen cover price increase that have outstripped comics, but for some reason comic fans expect comics to operate like it's 1985 instead of 2023 when none of the economic factors that allowed comics to operate the way they did in 1985 are true anymore. I get times are tough and customers are resistant to price increases, but to expect comics to operate at a loss just to put stuff out at MSRP they will accept is delusional. But publishers are delusional as well because they keep catering to a customer base that won't buy their products. Both parties need to move on. -M Expecting? I'm not expecting anyone to do anything. I'm not saying it's anyone's fault. I agree it's the current economic reality and that periodicals in general are on a massive and likely inevitable decline. All of that's true. Comics are still too damned expensive. I understand why they are so expensive, but they're still too expensive. I'm not asking or expecting creators or publishers to operate at a loss. The current economic and entertainment landscapes have changed such that it's a non-viable medium anymore, and increasingly so. It's sad, it sucks, and I wish it weren't the case. But they're too expensive. They were too expensive when I stopped almost a decade ago, anyway. I can only assume the economics haven't improved since then. I like them and can't afford/can't justify the expense. I am not saying that is WHY they are declining, but their relatively exorbitant cost can only be speeding up their demise. I'm not arguing that they aren't correctly priced for what they need to be to cover costs or whatnot, but they've become an unaffordable niche product that a lot of people can't afford. It's not their fault, but it sucks when your audience can't afford your product. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 21:49:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure how comic fans expect companies to afford putting out product for less than $1 per issue ($4 cover price means distributor buys it from the publisher for $1 and sells it for $2). Especially in a niche market where print runs are under $50k for most books, which means a book with 50K sales will net a publisher $50 in which they have to pay for the writer, penciller, inker, letterer, colorist, editor, production department, printing costs, transportation costs, storage costs, marketing costs, and all their infrastructure costs. If prices were lower, there would be no functioning publishers and no one making comics would make a living wage. But none of that matters if I can't get my cheap fix of super-hero stories so it's the publishers fault for charging too much. Go on twitter and read the #comicsboke me hashtag posts about how little comics folk are making in the current market place, much of it because publishers margins are so fricking small and parent companies like Disney don't share revenue from other media to the publishing arms making comics so they have to survive on actual publishing revenue. Most print publications have seen cover price increase that have outstripped comics, but for some reason comic fans expect comics to operate like it's 1985 instead of 2023 when none of the economic factors that allowed comics to operate the way they did in 1985 are true anymore. I get times are tough and customers are resistant to price increases, but to expect comics to operate at a loss just to put stuff out at MSRP they will accept is delusional. But publishers are delusional as well because they keep catering to a customer base that won't buy their products. Both parties need to move on. -M Expecting? I'm not expecting anyone to do anything. I'm not saying it's anyone's fault. I agree it's the current economic reality and that periodicals in general are on a massive and likely inevitable decline. All of that's true. Comics are still too damned expensive. I understand why they are so expensive, but they're still too expensive. I'm not asking or expecting creators or publishers to operate at a loss. The current economic and entertainment landscapes have changed such that it's a non-viable medium anymore, and increasingly so. It's sad, it sucks, and I wish it weren't the case. But they're too expensive. They were too expensive when I stopped almost a decade ago, anyway. I can only assume the economics haven't improved since then. I like them and can't afford/can't justify the expense. I am not saying that is WHY they are declining, but their relatively exorbitant cost can only be speeding up their demise. I'm not arguing that they aren't correctly priced for what they need to be to cover costs or whatnot, but they've become an unaffordable niche product that a lot of people can't afford. It's not their fault, but it sucks when your audience can't afford your product. They're too expensive for a mainstream product. I agree. But for a niche product, they are underpriced. Niche product prices don't scale with mainstream prices. They are a magnitude more expensive than a similar product in the mass market. Fans expect them to be priced as mainstream products and they show that when they trot out the trope that comics have increased more than inflation. The inflation index only applies to mainstream products. Once something becomes a niche product, that index goes out the window. Niche products are priced based on production costs. Production of niche products is vastly more expensive than producing mass market products, the lest reason for which is because of economy of scale, but there are several other products. If comic were a mainstream product, they'd be overpriced. For a niche product, they are actually underpriced. However, most consumers base their expectation of what they should be priced at based on them being mass market products and priced as that. That stopped being the case over a decade ago (close to 2 decades now). I get sticker shock and people thinking comic prices are too high, but the simple truth is if you want to buy a niche product you are going to have to pay more for it. Lots of people don't want to. I get that. The problem is they expect to be able to and the publishers expect to sell at mass market numbers. Both are delusional, but neither side is willing to accept the new reality and adapt to it. I haven't seen a periodical other than a comic priced at under $10 an issue in years. -M |
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Jun 13, 2023 23:08:35 GMT -5
Right, but part of the issue is even as a niche product, they are expensive for what they are from a consumer perspective. Well, that is to say, specifically the 30-ish page monthly floppy format that many here already agree is an anachronistic piece of junk is too expensive and not worth the price. Part of the problem is the product hasn't changed much, and many of the changes have been for the worse, e.g. decompressed storytelling vs densely packed stories, etc.
I've seen other periodicals that are $15 a pop, but those things are PACKED with content. A monthly floppy is basically the same as ever at best/you have to 6 to get a story at worst. If the true price of a decompressed floppy should be $10 an issue/$60 for a single arc, sign me up for Team Kill the Floppies.
Then again, I'm already not buying them, so what do they care what I think.
|
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 13, 2023 23:09:46 GMT -5
Let’s also keep in mind that the advertisement to product ratio of comic books has always been abnormally low. Most periodicals have been a vehicle for disseminating advertisements. Not so with comics. And that lack of ad revenue has kept prices high.
|
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Jun 13, 2023 23:14:37 GMT -5
With the audience being as small as it is today, I doubt any amount of ads packed into an issue would salvage the format.
|
|
