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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2023 12:04:04 GMT -5
I don't think "imagination" was something Ditko was in short supply of.  |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 21, 2023 12:10:27 GMT -5
I would put Kirby at the top, but that Spider-Man rogues gallery is pretty impressive.  Which doesn't include the Lizard, the Goblin, the Scorpion.... |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 21, 2023 12:18:42 GMT -5
And what he created in Dr. Strange was other worldly.  |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 21, 2023 13:01:04 GMT -5
Depending on the character (IOW, no one was/is a master of comic book costume design across the board), Kirby, Steranko, Romita and others were far more imaginative than Ditko. You better believe I said it!  No disrespect toward the great Jazzy John, but what great costumes did he design? I can think of Kingpin, the Rhino, the Shocker, the Gladiator..., all fine designs, but not comparable or as imaginative to what Ditko did. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 21, 2023 13:10:36 GMT -5
Depending on the character (IOW, no one was/is a master of comic book costume design across the board), Kirby, Steranko, Romita and others were far more imaginative than Ditko. You better believe I said it! No disrespect toward the great Jazzy John, but what great costumes did he design? I can think of Kingpin, the Rhino, the Shocker, the Gladiator..., all fine designs, but not comparable or as imaginative to what Ditko did. I don't really have a dog in this friendly quarrel, but I was more in the Ditko than Romita camp myself. Then I checked out this article and saw that Romita had gone beyond the generic stuff like Shocker, Prowler, Gibbon, etc. I still think I'd go with Ditko, but Romita did some fine design work, too. Not sure if he was behind those Villains-of-the-Month types like Kangaroo, Razorback, Mindworm and so on, but Punisher makes up for a lot of them. www.cbr.com/john-romita-marvel-costume-designs/For the record, though, his original design made Wolverine look more like a house-cat. |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 21, 2023 13:15:14 GMT -5
Thanks Hal, I did not know he also designed those characters. I would still pick Ditko overall, but he was impressive.
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 21, 2023 13:43:14 GMT -5
Depending on the character (IOW, no one was/is a master of comic book costume design across the board), Kirby, Steranko, Romita and others were far more imaginative than Ditko. You better believe I said it! No disrespect toward the great Jazzy John, but what great costumes did he design? I can think of Kingpin, the Rhino, the Shocker, the Gladiator..., all fine designs, but not comparable or as imaginative to what Ditko did. I found most of Ditko's Spider-Man villain costume designs rather simple, and often the opposite of dynamic, or what one could image working if made into a real world costume. Oh, and to add to what Prince Hal mentioned, you can add the most iconic of all Black Widow costumes, the original Ms. Marvel, fleshed out the Punisher into one of comic history's most known/popular costumes (from a germ of an idea from Gerry Conway, who only suggested a small skull on a shirt, but we know what Romita did to that), Tarantula, Bullseye, and more characters than I can list here. Aside from being a rare, supremely talented artist, his conceptualization was far in advance of many of his contemporaries, with many of his designs still around and/or heavily influencing modified versions in the decades to follow. |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 21, 2023 14:05:50 GMT -5
No disrespect toward the great Jazzy John, but what great costumes did he design? I can think of Kingpin, the Rhino, the Shocker, the Gladiator..., all fine designs, but not comparable or as imaginative to what Ditko did. I found most of Ditko's Spider-Man villain costume designs rather simple, and often the opposite of dynamic, or what one could image working if made into a real world costume. Oh, and to add to what Prince Hal mentioned, you can add the most iconic of all Black Widow costumes, the original Ms. Marvel, fleshed out the Punisher into one of comic history's most known/popular costumes (from a germ of an idea from Gerry Conway, who only suggested a small skull on a shirt, but we know what Romita did to that), Tarantula, Bullseye, and more characters than I can list here. Aside from being a rare, supremely talented artist, his conceptualization was far in advance of many of his contemporaries, with many of his designs still around and/or heavily influencing modified versions in the decades to follow. Did you read my later post about Romita after Hal posted? I rescinded my criticism of Romita's designs.
Also, it's just opinions about some very talented guys.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2023 15:10:57 GMT -5
I guess my Electro comment really "sparked" some debate  Would this be a bad time to mention I also think Jameson is Spider-Man's "greatest adversary"?  |
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Post by impulse on Oct 21, 2023 17:04:10 GMT -5
You know... I don't really know how to explain it. I even had one of his Wolverine posters and I think an X-MEN poster on my wall as a kid, but I think I both like and dislike Art Adams' work at the same time. It's really striking and bold and forces me to notice it, but I'm also not sure I like it, either.
I guess I bought it and I'm still talking about it, so it worked, but if I were to make a list of favorite X artists, he wouldn't be anywhere near my top.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 21, 2023 18:19:38 GMT -5
The Punisher's costume is, more or less, just an updating of the Black Terror, which in itself was inspired by a Jolly Roger pirate flag. Quite frankly, my favorite reference to it was the Captain America issue where Punisher turns up (Frank Miller cover) and Steve's landlady catches a glimpse of him, on a roof and her first thought is of the SS.
Never liked the character, as he was a poor man's Mack Bolan, who wasn't exactly a well developed character.
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 21, 2023 18:33:32 GMT -5
I found most of Ditko's Spider-Man villain costume designs rather simple, and often the opposite of dynamic, or what one could image working if made into a real world costume. Oh, and to add to what Prince Hal mentioned, you can add the most iconic of all Black Widow costumes, the original Ms. Marvel, fleshed out the Punisher into one of comic history's most known/popular costumes (from a germ of an idea from Gerry Conway, who only suggested a small skull on a shirt, but we know what Romita did to that), Tarantula, Bullseye, and more characters than I can list here. Aside from being a rare, supremely talented artist, his conceptualization was far in advance of many of his contemporaries, with many of his designs still around and/or heavily influencing modified versions in the decades to follow. Did you read my later post about Romita after Hal posted? I rescinded my criticism of Romita's designs.
Also, it's just opinions about some very talented guys.
Ah! I just caught your post. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220 
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Post by Confessor on Oct 22, 2023 10:21:39 GMT -5
Would this be a bad time to mention I also think Jameson is Spider-Man's "greatest adversary"? All sensible people think that -- because it's true. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 22, 2023 11:00:49 GMT -5
Would this be a bad time to mention I also think Jameson is Spider-Man's "greatest adversary"? All sensible people think that -- because it's true. This is absolutely the case. |
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 22, 2023 11:38:28 GMT -5
I guess my Electro comment really "sparked" some debate Would this be a bad time to mention I also think Jameson is Spider-Man's "greatest adversary"? Not really. While Jameson has waged a years-long campaign against Spider-Man, partnered with Smythe to capture him with the Spider-Slayers, hired Luke Cage to bring Spider-Man in "Dead or Alive!!" (the latter action fueled by his belief that Spider-Man murdered Norman Osborn), Spider-Man has suffered through a number of adversaries who truly wanted him "as dead as Lincoln", with the obvious--the Green Goblin (and the Kingpin and Jackal to "lesser" degrees) at the top of the list. Osborn's obsession effectively altered Parker's entire life in a permanent way that left him scarred beyond any physical pain at the hands of an enemy, and the spectre of what Osborn represented--tormented him long before and after the villain's death.
Without question, Jameson has wanted to end the career of Spider-Man, but having people with the obsession, time and resources to invest in his death makes them far greater adversaries, who lack even Jameson's moral compass. Yes, he has been depicted as having one from time to time, while the others are highly questionable. |
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