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Post by kirby101 on Oct 22, 2023 11:40:16 GMT -5
Jameson was definitely the antagonist in the drama.
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 22, 2023 11:41:34 GMT -5
I guess my Electro comment really "sparked" some debate  Would this be a bad time to mention I also think Jameson is Spider-Man's "greatest adversary"?  Not really. While Jameson has waged a years-long campaign against Spider-Man, partnered with Smythe to capture him with the Spider-Slayers, hired Luke Cage to bring Spider-Man in "Dead or Alive!!" (the latter action fueled by his belief that Spider-Man murdered Norman Osborn), Spider-Man has suffered through a number of adversaries who truly wanted him "as dead as Lincoln", with the obvious--the Green Goblin (and the Kingpin and Jackal to "lesser" degrees) at the top of the list. Osborn's obsession effectively altered Parker's entire life in a permanent way that left him scarred beyond any physical pain at the hands of an enemy, and the spectre of what Osborn represented--tormented him long before and after the villain's death.
Without question, Jameson has wanted to end the career of Spider-Man, but having people with the obsession, time and resources to invest in his death makes them far greater adversaries, who lack even Jameson's moral compass. Yes, he has been depicted as having one from time to time, while the others are highly questionable. Adversary or antagonist doesn't necessarily equate to villain. |
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Post by rberman on Oct 22, 2023 12:25:44 GMT -5
Logically, supervillains wearing masks makes no sense, once their identities become public knowledge. If Electro has spent time in jail, he’s known to the world. So in a real-world sense, it is illogical that they’d continue to hide their faces. However, this is why I try to remember that comicbook logic and real-world logic must often be separated, because while there’s no real-world logic to someone like Electro keeping a mask, it does look great from a visual perspective.
I just think of the mask as part of the costume, whether to hide an identity or just as a decoration.
Agree with @supercat2099 about Electro's mask.
In the recent Spider-Man film, it was a halo of actual electricity crackling off of his head, which made more sense than a distinctive but unwieldy mask. They got to have their cake and eat it too. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 22, 2023 15:05:55 GMT -5
Not really. While Jameson has waged a years-long campaign against Spider-Man, partnered with Smythe to capture him with the Spider-Slayers, hired Luke Cage to bring Spider-Man in "Dead or Alive!!" (the latter action fueled by his belief that Spider-Man murdered Norman Osborn), Spider-Man has suffered through a number of adversaries who truly wanted him "as dead as Lincoln", with the obvious--the Green Goblin (and the Kingpin and Jackal to "lesser" degrees) at the top of the list. Osborn's obsession effectively altered Parker's entire life in a permanent way that left him scarred beyond any physical pain at the hands of an enemy, and the spectre of what Osborn represented--tormented him long before and after the villain's death.
Without question, Jameson has wanted to end the career of Spider-Man, but having people with the obsession, time and resources to invest in his death makes them far greater adversaries, who lack even Jameson's moral compass. Yes, he has been depicted as having one from time to time, while the others are highly questionable. Adversary or antagonist doesn't necessarily equate to villain. To be fair, over the course of their antagonism, Jameson commits multiple felonies in his attempts to get Spider-man. So, while he doesn't wear his long underwear on the outside, he is frequently the very definition of a villain. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 22, 2023 15:22:04 GMT -5
To be fair, over the course of their antagonism, Jameson commits multiple felonies in his attempts to get Spider-man. So, while he doesn't wear his long underwear on the outside, he is frequently the very definition of a villain. True, he literally commits crimes along the way to your point, but I think it gets somewhat to splitting hairs. The bigger nuance I think most would appreciate is that Jameson, in a clearly superhero genre title, is not looking to commit "traditional" crimes as a costumed villain or even a crime boss type. While you could say in general he's a somewhat less than ethical business person, his obsession with Spider-Man takes him over the line on occasion, considerably so in some instances. I get what you're saying and I'm really not trying to start anything or even get too political (as is my wont). But I think this kind of hair-splitting is why we have so very very many businessmen and politicians in the U.S. who don't believe that the laws apply to them. I don't see any difference between Jameson causing massive property damage, putting lives at stake, etc. through his use of Spider-Slayers, The Scorpion, and his other shenanigans than those crime boss types doing the same thing. He's a thug in a business suit who gets away with it because of who and what he is. |
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Post by driver1980 on Oct 22, 2023 15:54:05 GMT -5
Am I misremembering a comic making reference to Jameson being a big supporter of labour unions? If so, I remember thinking how contradictory it was, given how he treated his own employees.
That felt quite realistic to me. A UK charity is committed to mental health and supporting people during difficult times, but a friend of mine worked for them, and she said they were harsh and often lacking in empathy when her health issues meant she had to give less time/support to the charity. Yet if you were to see their billboards..!
So I guess I could buy Jameson pushing civil rights, labour union rights and so much else, while perhaps showing no such concerns towards his employees.
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Post by badwolf on Oct 22, 2023 16:56:58 GMT -5
You know... I don't really know how to explain it. I even had one of his Wolverine posters and I think an X-MEN poster on my wall as a kid, but I think I both like and dislike Art Adams' work at the same time. It's really striking and bold and forces me to notice it, but I'm also not sure I like it, either. I guess I bought it and I'm still talking about it, so it worked, but if I were to make a list of favorite X artists, he wouldn't be anywhere near my top. I loved it at the time, but I have a hard time looking at it now. His more recent work (maybe last 20 years or so) however is amazing. |
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 22, 2023 17:59:44 GMT -5
Not really. While Jameson has waged a years-long campaign against Spider-Man, partnered with Smythe to capture him with the Spider-Slayers, hired Luke Cage to bring Spider-Man in "Dead or Alive!!" (the latter action fueled by his belief that Spider-Man murdered Norman Osborn), Spider-Man has suffered through a number of adversaries who truly wanted him "as dead as Lincoln", with the obvious--the Green Goblin (and the Kingpin and Jackal to "lesser" degrees) at the top of the list. Osborn's obsession effectively altered Parker's entire life in a permanent way that left him scarred beyond any physical pain at the hands of an enemy, and the spectre of what Osborn represented--tormented him long before and after the villain's death.
Without question, Jameson has wanted to end the career of Spider-Man, but having people with the obsession, time and resources to invest in his death makes them far greater adversaries, who lack even Jameson's moral compass. Yes, he has been depicted as having one from time to time, while the others are highly questionable. Adversary or antagonist doesn't necessarily equate to villain. If one wanted to be technical about it, Jameson could not be labeled (as supercat put it) "Spider-Man's "greatest adversary", either. By definition, an adversary is "...an enemy or someone who opposes someone else", and applied to the Spider-Man cast of characters, you'd easily find others who fit that definition to be his "greatest" above Jameson, especially when Jameson has occasionally flip-flopped on his interactions / perceptions with Spider-Man, where he's admitted envy toward S-M, accepted his help, or was downright apologetic to him (TASM #125, for one example). JJJ has been more complex as a character, rather than his single-minded enemy/rant-machine as written for the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2023 18:31:24 GMT -5
If my liking Electro's mask and thinking Jameson is Spidey's greatest "adversary" (what a charged word!) can stir up this level of chaos, wait until I drop my next reveal.
I don't want to give too much away, but let's just say a certain stale cheese in Pete's fridge named Kevin might be involved. This opinion may very well shake CCF to its core.
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Post by badwolf on Oct 23, 2023 9:10:51 GMT -5
I like Electro's mask and that scene where he was hired to deactivate the Vault was very well done.
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 23, 2023 10:53:00 GMT -5
If my liking Electro's mask and thinking Jameson is Spidey's greatest "adversary" (what a charged word!) can stir up this level of chaos, wait until I drop my next reveal. I don't want to give too much away, but let's just say a certain stale cheese in Pete's fridge named Kevin might be involved. This opinion may very well shake CCF to its core. Aside from the stale cheese reference, what else will you drop on the board? Let me guess...
DC had better western characters than Marvel?
Between DC and Marvel, DC had superior horror/mystery comics?
All other companies who tried to copy the Archie formula / format--more often than not--failed miserably?
The original X-Men were a more compelling team than the 1975 version?
If you confiscated all copies of Wizard magazine and all comics published by Image, then fired them into the sun, it would be a loss to no one?
Take your pick! 
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Post by badwolf on Oct 23, 2023 10:59:49 GMT -5
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 23, 2023 11:02:39 GMT -5
Okay, then shoot it into deep space, where it becomes the unwanted garbage for another species.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 11:19:19 GMT -5
What are you guys doing to my stack of Wizards now? Let Supercat have his blissful 90’s, it’s sounding a little like my parents.
“You’re reading comics all wrong! And turn down that horrible noise you call music.”
But mom, all the kids are reading Wizard and listening to Cypress Hill…
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Post by impulse on Oct 23, 2023 12:14:48 GMT -5
At least early on, the writing in Wizard was HILARIOUS. At least to my then-13-years-old sensibilities. I feel like I read most of the good writers left for Toyfare at some point? I don't know. If we can save The Walking Dead and Invincible, you can burn the rest of Image as far as I'm concerned. Except YOUNGBLOOD!  |
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