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Post by driver1980 on Oct 30, 2024 4:52:50 GMT -5
It's been a part of the industry forever, isn't unique to "modern comics" but fans tend to forget/ignore the issues inherent in their favorite eras of comics either through the blinding influence of nostalgia, willful ignorance or denial, or because they want to complain about modern comics and will do so for any reason even if the same issues were rampant in their preferred eras, using whatever rationalizations, mental gymnastics, or justifications they need to do so. I’m not being hostile when I post this, but we’re all human, and perhaps you’d agree that you may have also engaged in nostalgia, wilful ignorance or denial? But I don’t feel that that always applies. It feels more nuanced. For instance, a glance at Mike’s Amazing World of Comics for, say, 1974 will no doubt show character pose covers and covers different from the interior, but it does feel like those things are more ubiquitous from the Big Two nowadays. As for readers wanting to complain, I’m sure that does exist, but I don’t believe it applies to everyone all of the time, although I’m not sure you were saying that. For instance, I’ve been very enthusiastic about Defenders of the Earth and Thundercats, and I feel quite excited about Atlas’ return. I *want* those to succeed. Sometimes when we complain (about anything), it can be because we feel there’s something to complain about rather than wanting to complain. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 30, 2024 7:37:53 GMT -5
Pose covers aren't always bad... the new trend for long running series trades to each feature a different character on the cover (at least I know they do this with the IDW trades for TMNT and the 'Full Metal' special editions of Full Metal Alchemist) aren't bad, since the content is already known and the art is consistent through the series.
I like it less on monthlies for sure, but that's the industry right now.
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Post by rich on Oct 30, 2024 7:44:17 GMT -5
It's funny to think that between them, Marvel and DC probably commission something like 600-700 covers per month. 🤯
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 30, 2024 9:01:19 GMT -5
I love a nice cover but it would never be enough all on its own to get me to buy a comic I didn't like otherwise.
I'd say the same, except for a cover by Michael Golden in the '80s! (I blame my addiction). Mine would have been "The New" Defenders I bought as back issues and couldn't see the interior art. You got Mike Zeck, Kevin Nowlan (#133 being the one that caught my eye), Frank Cirocco, Bill Sienkiewicz, and Mike Mignola. Then I got home and got them out of their bag and boards .... And I will say as much as I did like the interior Sal Buscema art of the #300's Hulk issues before Peter David, I would have liked to see more than just Mike Mignola Hulk covers. |
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Post by rberman on Oct 30, 2024 9:25:46 GMT -5
It's funny to think that between them, Marvel and DC probably commission something like 600-700 covers per month. 🤯 They publish that many variants monthly perhaps. Many are produced by the artist (either on spec or as commissions for private collectors) and then pitched to Marvel or DC. |
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Post by impulse on Oct 30, 2024 10:25:25 GMT -5
I'd buy a comic just for the cover if I wanted it for art purposes, like, as in art to display on my wall. I have done so with some quirky older Lois Lane and Wonder Woman books. I enjoy some the campiness and kitsch of some of those older books.
I think it should be one of those rules or laws of the universe that if something exists, especially online, someone will complain about it.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 30, 2024 10:31:17 GMT -5
I think it should be one of those rules or laws of the universe that if something exists, especially online, someone will complain about it. I just don't see how any of this is harming anyone. Leaving aside that it's a thing that's been happening throughout the entire history of the medium, who is harmed by this? And if nobody is harmed, why should anyone care? |
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Post by impulse on Oct 30, 2024 11:00:17 GMT -5
Complainers can be annoying, but then we get something new to complain about...complainers. The gift that keeps on giving.
Complaining is just a fundamental truth of existence.
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Post by driver1980 on Oct 30, 2024 11:11:24 GMT -5
But don’t all of us complain about something? Maybe I misunderstand, but at times here, it feels like some - perhaps unintentionally - have put themselves on a pedestal, implying that they are above complaining. It feels like they - again, maybe unintentionally - are implying that only others complain.
Every criticism of someone complaining (about ads, comics, the state of the roads, food prices, etc) is by people who must surely complain themselves. As every human being does.
If I’m misunderstanding, I apologise, but I’m trying a variation on “Let he is without sin cast the first stone…”
None of us are perfect, but it’s true that every comic fan on the planet has at times engaged in nostalgia, put rose-tinted glasses on, etc. I have. All have. That’s all I’m getting at here. No disrespect intended.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 30, 2024 11:22:57 GMT -5
But don’t all of us complain about something? Maybe I misunderstand, but at times here, it feels like some - perhaps unintentionally - have put themselves on a pedestal, implying that they are above complaining. It feels like they - again, maybe unintentionally - are implying that only others complain. Every criticism of someone complaining (about ads, comics, the state of the roads, food prices, etc) is by people who must surely complain themselves. As every human being does. If I’m misunderstanding, I apologise, but I’m trying a variation on “Let he is without sin cast the first stone…” None of us are perfect, but it’s true that every comic fan on the planet has at times engaged in nostalgia, put rose-tinted glasses on, etc. I have. All have. That’s all I’m getting at here. No disrespect intended. I'm certainly not saying that anyone can't complain. Nor am I putting myself on a pedestal...I have faults enough to fill a dump truck. My point here is that, as best I can tell, neither different artists on the covers than on interiors nor "pose covers" are out of the ordinary in comics history, nor are they harmful to anyone. In fact, I'd say that, looking at the entire history of comics across companies and genres, both were far more the norm than the exception, except...possibly with regard to Silver and Bronze Age "Big Two" funnybooks. And in a lot of those Silver Age cases, the cover came first and the story was written around it (a big DC thing). I guess I'm just saying that I don't understand the complaint, not that the individual can't complain. Again, nobody is harmed. And, again, both have been at least pretty normal, if not THE norm, throughout comics history. |
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Post by impulse on Oct 30, 2024 12:02:34 GMT -5
Everyone complains, but some people seem to live to complain. Maybe that's the difference?
I don't have a horse in the race either way. The older I get, the less I care what anyone else does as long as nobody's getting hurt. Unless they want to get hurt, then more power to them.
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Post by driver1980 on Oct 30, 2024 12:38:27 GMT -5
It just feels there are times when one can be positive about things (e.g. the new Defenders of the Earth comic or the 1980s Super Powers comic) - and the responses that you might have hoped for do not come. Complete silence, so to speak. Yet the minute you complain about something, suddenly you’re seen as a serial complainer.
I’m not saying anyone is saying that about me. But whenever I have posted a positive comment about a NEW comic, it doesn’t lead to discussion. Which is fine. No problem. Yet one complaint about a modern comic and it’s seen as serial complaining.
(I absolutely am not referring to Slam Bradley here)
With all due respect to MRP, he absolutely does not need to justify himself to me, but I would be curious if the terms he has posted (wilful ignorance, blinded by nostalgia, and denial) are things he would acknowledge in himself. I don’t think any of us are exempt from that. Whenever he is asked, though, the silence is deafening.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 30, 2024 13:25:56 GMT -5
Seems like a good time for a Python break.... As a veteran, I support the right to complain; it's the lifeblood of the military!  Venting a bit of steam is good for you, psychologically, even if it doesn't change things. As for "crickets" when you post something, I have felt the same, from time to time, with reviews posts; but, I have found that some things just don't elicit further comment, but do get seen. Sometimes people don't have much to add. Plus, we all have our little favorite where we seem to be the sole champion of its greatness. Nothing wrong with that, I say; sometimes it is better to be the Voice in the Wilderness than another "moo" in the herd. |
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Post by rich on Oct 30, 2024 13:35:54 GMT -5
One of the reasons I dislike the variant cover phenomenon is that it takes away many good interior artists from ever doing interior art. I care more for interior art, so that sucks for me. Taking the main cover away from the interior artist makes the interior artist's financial conditions even lousier too, because they miss out on the lovely original art sale.
So yeah, fewer artists caring about interior art diminishes the pool of artists drawing stories, which sucks.
As for pose covers... they weren't so much a thing in the Silver and Bronze ages, nor do they seem to be a big thing in European comics, and personally I find them dull. But I don't buy modern monthly comics, so I'm not the target audience, and nor do I have skin in the game there.
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Post by driver1980 on Oct 30, 2024 13:40:25 GMT -5
You’re right, codystarbuck, I just wish - and I’m trying to avoid strife and conflict here - that some here could get away from the narrative that there’s only ever complaining about new comics. I have criticised old comics and new comics alike. I’ve also praised them. I do think phrases like “wilful ignorance” are a tad unfair. Not saying wilful ignorance doesn’t exist, but, you know, it is possible to simply dislike something without needing to be ‘wilfully ignorant’ or to have an agenda. Not every complaint about a modern comic is about wilful ignorance, delusion or nostalgia. Perhaps sometimes it’s possible to dislike something on its own lack of merits. Quite honestly, if I complain about, say, a 2024 mini-series, as I type some words, what was happening in comics in 1964 or 1924 might not even register in my brain. I won’t post any more on the subject (unless someone asks a question directly) but I stand by the fact that some criticisms made here remind me of the “take the plank out of your own eye” hyperbole. Every human in the planet has been blinded by nostalgia at some point. |
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Venting a bit of steam is good for you, psychologically, even if it doesn't change things.