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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 4, 2024 10:32:07 GMT -5
It’s called recency bias.
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Post by impulse on Nov 4, 2024 10:44:47 GMT -5
I enjoyed some of Millar's stuff, others I didn't. I really enjoyed his Ultimates 1 and 2. Jeph Loeb's Ultimates 3 was so bad I dropped it after 1 issue.
I enjoyed some of his creator owned stuff. The first Kick-Ass was pretty good, but I stopped enjoying it after. It was just torture porn, shitting all over the main character. I couldn't enjoy just seeing this kid ground into paste figuratively and physically all the time. His Wolverine was okay.
I mostly liked his "cinematic" approach which was novel at at the time.
Ennis can be great. I don't like when he goes too cartoony or preachy, but Preacher had some poignant moments. Punisher MAX was fantastic. The Boys was like using a sledgehammer to knock in a slightly loose pushpin.
Morrison was very hit or miss, and he couldn't stick landings for me. I loved his New X-MEN run. It was the most refreshing thing that had happened to the X-books in years, but you could tell when he was done, he just tossed it together and walked.
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Post by Batflunkie on Nov 4, 2024 13:16:34 GMT -5
Ennis can be great. I don't like when he goes too cartoony or preachy, but Preacher had some poignant moments. Punisher MAX was fantastic. The Boys was like using a sledgehammer to knock in a slightly loose pushpin. I really don't like how the original Boys comic (through social media bias towards the Amazon adaptation) has seemingly colored Ennis as a one trick pony "Edgelord" with no redeeming qualities on the Internet (and if that was the case, do you really think the show would have ever gotten made?). Yes, Ennis can be very over the top when he wants to be, but like you said impulse, he can also have some very human moments in his stories too
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Post by rich on Nov 4, 2024 14:19:52 GMT -5
It’s called recency bias. Recency bias is the opposite of what we're talking about. Recency bias favours the new. Aren't we talking about favouring "our era" over all else?
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Post by rich on Nov 4, 2024 14:21:46 GMT -5
. His Wolverine was okay. [ 😧 My jaw just hit the floor. Sounds like that was the editor's fault- changing his stories until he felt he had to leave. I'd be fascinated to hear how Quesada fit into the equation- the stories creators tell usually suggest that disagreements with editors resulted in him coming down on the creators like a ton of bricks, trying to beat them in line.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Nov 4, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5
I feel like I'm in a weird place because when it comes to Marvel in particular, I think the comics they produced before I was born are much better than the stuff they've published during my lifetime, with some exceptions like Ultimate Spider-Man and Alias. X-Men, Spider-Man, Avengers, I'd much rather read the stuff from the 70s and 80s than most of the stuff from the 21st century or even the 90s. With DC at least I still think their peak was when I was a very little kid and not well before I existed.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Nov 4, 2024 14:31:14 GMT -5
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Post by rich on Nov 4, 2024 14:33:32 GMT -5
Looks good, aside from the copy and pasting going on, which is a personal bug bear.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Nov 4, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5
Looks good, aside from the copy and pasting going on, which is a personal bug bear. The only copy/pasting I see are the 4 background characters behind her arm in 2 panels. Everything else the characters are in different positions or poses. Even the ghostly Darkchild in the background has a different hand pose and slightly different posture between those 2 panels when it could have easily gotten away with being exactly the same.
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Post by impulse on Nov 4, 2024 14:59:43 GMT -5
I really don't like how the original Boys comic (through social media bias towards the Amazon adaptation) has seemingly colored Ennis as a one trick pony "Edgelord" with no redeeming qualities on the Internet (and if that was the case, do you really think the show would have ever gotten made?). Yes, Ennis can be very over the top when he wants to be, but like you said impulse, he can also have some very human moments in his stories too Don't mistake me. I think he can definitely be an edgelord, too, but I agree that it's not all he can do. He can be quite good when he wants to be. 😧 My jaw just hit the floor. Let me rephrase. His Wolverine was okaaaay. I didn't like the Hand resurrection thing, and I thought it was too long and a throwaway, but I didn't hate it completely the first time through. I don't ever want to read it again, though. Sounds like that was the editor's fault- changing his stories until he felt he had to leave. I'd be fascinated to hear how Quesada fit into the equation- the stories creators tell usually suggest that disagreements with editors resulted in him coming down on the creators like a ton of bricks, trying to beat them in line.[/quote] People are quick to blame editorial whenever something falls short of the bar in comics. Granted, it seems to be correct a good bit of the time. It's been a long time since I've read up on it, so take this with a pinch of salt. My understanding is Morrison was pretty much brought in as a superstar Name Brand creator to revitalize a floundering Marvel and was given basically free range to do what he wanted. I think he was interested in staying on longer, but he was being pressured to undo some changes perhaps, and said screw you guys, I'm goin' home. So, while I don't think what we got was necessarily fiddled with by editorial, I think they had disagreements on what was going on next. Based on the speed that Quesada swept everything but the surface-level topical changes right back under the rug, this seems plausible to me. It's a shame, too, because the status quo change Morrison built for them was the first new and interesting idea the X-Books had seen in year. Oh, well.
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Post by rich on Nov 4, 2024 15:03:25 GMT -5
Last 4 panels all use copy and paste. First three panels seem to use copy and paste in the backgrounds on some level, but have at least been tweaked plenty and likely digitally inked separately, which gives them a bit of a pass.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Nov 4, 2024 15:14:48 GMT -5
Last 4 panels all use copy and paste. First three panels seem to use copy and paste in the backgrounds on some level, but have at least been tweaked plenty and likely digitally inked separately, which gives them a bit of a pass. Unless you just don't like when 2 panels use the same angle I don't really see what the problem is. Of course backgrounds aren't going to change in a split second when the action is entirely in the foreground.
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Post by rich on Nov 4, 2024 15:18:48 GMT -5
People are quick to blame editorial whenever something falls short of the bar in comics. Granted, it seems to be correct a good bit of the time. It's been a long time since I've read up on it, so take this with a pinch of salt. My understanding is Morrison was pretty much brought in as a superstar Name Brand creator to revitalize a floundering Marvel and was given basically free range to do what he wanted. I think he was interested in staying on longer, but he was being pressured to undo some changes perhaps, and said screw you guys, I'm goin' home. So, while I don't think what we got was necessarily fiddled with by editorial, I think they had disagreements on what was going on next. Based on the speed that Quesada swept everything but the surface-level topical changes right back under the rug, this seems plausible to me. It's a shame, too, because the status quo change Morrison built for them was the first new and interesting idea the X-Books had seen in year. Oh, well. I admit I'm quick to blame editorial, partly because creators tend to, and I'm more invested in their opinions than nameless editors. Breevort is pretty much the only editor of the last 30 years whose comics I've pretty much always liked (And I haven't read any of his comics for many years). From various accounts regular editors are poorly paid and with often limited talent for their work, and have undoubtedly stuffed up or curtailed many great runs, but of course this is an unfair and uneducated assessment relying on biased sources. Quesada does seem like a disaster in human form, though. I liked his art, and liked Marvel Knights initially... but crikey, he oversaw the demolition of anything I liked about Marvel, alienated or marginalised the creators I cared for, and didn't even treat the classic material with respect. As far as Morrison goes, there's some interviews, combined with some assumptions people have made, but whatever went wrong there it really pissed him off severely.
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Post by rich on Nov 4, 2024 15:25:31 GMT -5
Unless you just don't like when 2 panels use the same angle I don't really see what the problem is. Of course backgrounds aren't going to change in a split second when the action is entirely in the foreground. There's something jarring about seeing the same thing twice or more on the same page, and I dislike how it's common now because it's so easy to copy and paste. Move the view point around, change the distance, draw something new... Like I said, a personal bug bear, that can wreck *any* page for me. And yes, I know tracing used to occur in the past, but the uncanny valley effect was avoided unless a photostat was cut and paste right on to a page. That happened, but much less commonly. It was usually used to save drawing a building multiple times, for example, typically cut from a past issue. One use I quite liked was when they'd photostat or trace a face, and gradually zoom closer and closer in to the eyes or mouth. Much more artistic.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Nov 4, 2024 15:28:38 GMT -5
Editors get a lot of the blame because they are supposed to be the product's quality control. Like in every industry, books have to be pitched, ideas thrown around, scripts submitted and approved, so that when a customer buys a comic, the story has theoretically gone through multiple rounds of approval. If a book makes you question 'how could anyone approve this junk or think it was ok to publish?' that's on the editors for failing to do their jobs to either kill bad stories or work with the writers to make the stories better. A competent editor will bring out the best in their writers, while an incompetent editor will make writers look like they just published a first draft that was hastily written at 3 am without even a spellcheck.
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