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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 14, 2016 10:40:52 GMT -5
I think I'd put it slightly below Jedi, myself, but ahead of all the prequels for sure.
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 14, 2016 11:17:59 GMT -5
I agree. Yoda's comic first appearance, the Ewoks, etc, add nuance to a space fairy tale that has a lot more going for it than most grim sci-fi movies I've seen over the years. Great stories at least attempt to cover all facets of human emotion (humor, love, hate) and I think Jedi succeeds in this. The original trilogy was great at this overall and that to me is why those films are magical. RotJ is my favorite film of the OT. Maybe because I first watched when I was a kid, but I never found the Ewoks to be too cutesy or annoying. An added bit of lightheartedness, sure, but an acceptable amount that didn't detract from the film. There are a few things about RotJ that work in its favor for me. --Finally, after two movies of build-up, no more Luke as a wide-eyed farmboy, or whiny Jedi wannabe who barely understands his powers. He's now a confident Jedi, in control of his powers, and ready to kick ass with his lightsaber. --The space battle over Endor was way more epic than anything seen in the previous movies. --Now that we know Darth Vader is Luke's father and that he was seduced to the dark side, it gives a greater depth and complexity to the entire Star Wars saga. RotJ is when we finally realized that Star Wars is primarily about the Skywalker family and the greater struggle between the light and dark side of the Force, of which the Rebellion's stand against the Empire is merely the current backdrop. --It provides a satisfying conclusion to the story. This is the biggest weakness of ESB, IMO. My ranking of thus films current looks like this: 1. RotJ 2. ESB 3. TFA 3. RotS, ANH (tie) 4. AotC 5. TPM I think the inferior level of the first two prequel films casts an unfair shadow on RotS, which I think is a much stronger film and deserves to be judged on its own merits. And while I still love ANH, I think of the OT films it hasn't aged nearly as well. Also, when seen in context of the entire series, it's the most disconnected from the larger mythology. Prior to TFA, my wife and I watched the entire series in Machete order, and Episode 4 works much better as a gentle introduction to the series than a middle chapter. Similarly, Episode 3 is a much better lead in to RotJ than ANH. The Emperor's goading of Luke and Vader's doubt and subsequent return to the light have a greater depth when you've just seen the Anakin's fall to the dark side. You have a better understanding of why Luke has faith that there is still good in Vader when you've just seen the (flawed) hero that he was before.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 15, 2016 11:29:19 GMT -5
My order, in terms of excellence, with 1 being the best and 7 being worst, would be...
1. The Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Return of the Jedi 4. The Force Awakens 5. The Phantom Menace 6. Revenge of the Sith 7. Attack of the Clones
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 16, 2016 0:06:04 GMT -5
So is anyone interested in discussing theories about the various mysteries raised in TFA? I think it's pretty clear that Rey is meant to be a Skywalker. And I think this is one of those cases where the obvious choice is going to be the right one. Besides all of the in-movie clues, I think the biggest clue was in one of the early trailers where you hear Luke's voiceover saying "The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. You have that power too." The trailers were ambiguous as to who the main hero character would be, and I'm fairly certain they were banking on most people's preconceived notions that the main hero character would be Finn because he's the guy and therefore Rey must be the supporting character. But now that we know Rey is the main hero character, it gives more meaning to that voiceover. Even though being of the Skywalker family is obvious (I'll go one step further into the obvious camp and state that I think she is Luke's daughter), I think the real mystery is not meant to be her lineage, but the circumstances surrounding her abandonment. Who was her mother and where is she now? Why was she left on Jakku? Another mystery: Who is Snoke? Lots of theories online thinking that he's a resurrected Sith lord, possibly Darth Plagueis, or even Vader or Palpatine. I also read one interesting theory that posits Grand Moff Tarkin survived the destruction of the first Death Star (perhaps that one lackey who suggested readying an escape pod actually DID ready that escape pod), licked his wounds in the background for a couple of movies, while secretly plotting to take over once the Empire sees its demise. It would fit in with the many many nods to Episode 4. Here's one that I don't see much discussion about -- Who is Maz Kanata? She says she's not a Jedi, yet she clearly has knowledge about the Force. And if this story is to believed, she is a Force user herself. Is she a former/retired Jedi? A Force-sensitive who simply never took up training but picked up some tricks along the way?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 23:11:45 GMT -5
If anyone has read Aftermath the novel released before TFA was released, it had some subtle clues about the possible origins of the Knights of Ren, the First Order and possibly Snoke's first appearance under another nom de guerre, as this article highlights. I did read Aftermath, and when I saw TFA, things like the First Order nad the Knights of Ren seemed to be logical outgrowths of what I had read there about wha tthe Imperial survivors were trying to accomplish and what adhererant of the Dark side were up to, but I didn't make the Snoke connection-my first thought was Snoke was someone the surviving Imperials encountered when the faction who wanted to go beyond the Outer Rim to find allies and resources beyond the known Imperial sectors had discovered and fallen under the sway of (i.e. a powerful force user form outside the charted familiar areas of the galaxy). I still think the rescue of the force trees by Luke in Shattered Empires and their plantings and recruiting force strong families to watch over and take care of them will play into the origins of Rey and Finn's birth family, just as Poe's family was important to that story. I think the foundations for a lot of explanations were laid in those Journey to Force Awakens books and in Rebels (the Luke Skywalker JTFA young adult novel (The Wepon of A Jedi) has Luke discovering an abandoned Jedi temple that furthers his understanding of the Force and its teachings set between Ep. IV and V to show how he got stronger in the Force without more training and echoes the scene in Rebels where Kanan and Ezra find such a temple and learn more of the Force and its uses), and as the trilogy and one-off films progress we will see a lot of it come to fruition, I just don't think modern audiences are used to waiting, they want everything right now without having to wait for it and it makes them bitchy. -M
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Post by wizardress on Jan 18, 2016 5:52:21 GMT -5
My order, in terms of excellence, with 1 being the best and 7 being worst, would be... 1. The Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Return of the Jedi 4. The Force Awakens 5. The Phantom Menace 6. Revenge of the Sith 7. Attack of the Clones Did you put the 3 films at the bottom because of Jar Jar Binks?
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Post by dupersuper on Jan 18, 2016 9:17:42 GMT -5
1 New Hope & Empire 2 Jedi 3 Force Awakens
4 Revenge of the Sith
5 Attack of the Clones
6 Phantom Menace (yes, so much Jar Jar...*shudder*)
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 18, 2016 10:30:05 GMT -5
My order, in terms of excellence, with 1 being the best and 7 being worst, would be... 1. The Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Return of the Jedi 4. The Force Awakens 5. The Phantom Menace 6. Revenge of the Sith 7. Attack of the Clones Did you put the 3 films at the bottom because of Jar Jar Binks? No, not really. Jar Jar Binks doesn't really bother me as much as he does some others. Is he my favourite character? No, of course not, but he's no more annoying than, say, young Anakin ...or teenage Anakin, for that matter. The reason that those three films are at the bottom of my list is because I think the prequel trilogy are simply the three worst films overall...and I mean "worst" in terms of their scripting, direction and acting, not just because I happened to dislike a particular character. I think they all have their moments of greatness, sure, but the prequels are all quite badly made from a directorial point of view. The Phantom Menace, which has the most Jar Jar of all the prequel films, is actually my favourite. To me, TPM looked like a Star Wars film, it sounded like a Star Wars film and it just felt like Star Wars film. Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, on the other hand, really didn't. There was much too much dark, oh-so-gritty fan service in the 2nd and 3rd movies for my tastes and the love story -- the love story between Anakin and Padme, which was absolutely pivotal to the entire saga -- was laughably unbelievable, extremely poorly written and acted, and ultimately left the audience thinking, "so what?" That flaw alone (and there were plenty of others, so don't get me started on what was wrong with AOTCs), will always make Attack of the Clones the worst and least likable Star Wars film for me.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 18, 2016 10:32:26 GMT -5
1 New Hope & Empire 2 Jedi 3 Force Awakens 4 Revenge of the Sith 5 Attack of the Clones 6 Phantom Menace (yes, so much Jar Jar...*shudder*) Love that you've got New Hope and Empire as joint #1. It's like choosing between children picking a favourite out of those two.
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Post by dupersuper on Jan 18, 2016 10:53:09 GMT -5
It was damn near a 3 way tie, but - while I'm fine with the Ewoks - I concede that the story on the ground was lacking compared to the Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 19, 2016 13:13:42 GMT -5
So is anyone interested in discussing theories about the various mysteries raised in TFA? I think it's pretty clear that Rey is meant to be a Skywalker. And I think this is one of those cases where the obvious choice is going to be the right one. Besides all of the in-movie clues, I think the biggest clue was in one of the early trailers where you hear Luke's voiceover saying "The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. You have that power too." The trailers were ambiguous as to who the main hero character would be, and I'm fairly certain they were banking on most people's preconceived notions that the main hero character would be Finn because he's the guy and therefore Rey must be the supporting character. But now that we know Rey is the main hero character, it gives more meaning to that voiceover. Even though being of the Skywalker family is obvious (I'll go one step further into the obvious camp and state that I think she is Luke's daughter), I think the real mystery is not meant to be her lineage, but the circumstances surrounding her abandonment. Who was her mother and where is she now? Why was she left on Jakku? Quite correct, and it would be dramatically appropriate if Rey was Luke's kid. I would be quite upset if someone declared "oh, no, that would be too obvious... She is completely unrelated to whatever happened before". I really hope it's nobody we ever heard of. Unlike Rey's filiation, which is sort of required to preserve the classic generational feel of the series, I think the identity of the main villain is open to all sorts of new developments that would enrich the saga instead of cannibalizing it. (And if I must be honest, any connection to the prequels is something I can happily live without!) "Mmmm... My main squeeze, once she was. ".
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 19, 2016 19:46:24 GMT -5
my list
1. Star Wars 2. Return of the Jedi 3. Empire Strikes Back 4. Force Awakens 5. Revenge of the Sith 6. Phantom Menace 7. Attack of the Clones
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 20, 2016 16:43:36 GMT -5
my list 1. Star Wars 2. Return of the Jedi 3. Empire Strikes Back 4. Force Awakens 5. Revenge of the Sith 6. Phantom Menace 7. Attack of the Clones I notice the Holiday Special is absent...
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jan 20, 2016 21:33:25 GMT -5
my list 1. Star Wars 2. Return of the Jedi 3. Empire Strikes Back 4. Force Awakens 5. Revenge of the Sith 6. Phantom Menace 7. Attack of the Clones I notice the Holiday Special is absent... Perhaps he's in denial? Or maybe his therapist has told him not to talk about it any more. On the same subject, where are the two Ewok movies - Caravan of Courage and The Battle for Endor?
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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 21, 2016 5:46:58 GMT -5
I think the Holiday Special was never even broadcast over here.
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