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Post by batlaw on Dec 20, 2015 23:01:12 GMT -5
Saw it tonight. I'm really pleased and satisfied as a lifelong star wars fan from the very beginning. I give it a 31/2 - 4 out of 5. Not perfect or as near perfect as the original(s), but finally a worthy addition. Makes the prequels look even worse than they already did. Still plenty of nitpicks though. I agree with most of what everyone else has said regarding its failings. Except for the main girls performance, which I thought was really great actually. I was so happy to end up being impressed by the newbies. At very least the opening crawl should have given more info on the current political state of the galaxy or someone somewhere shouldve brought the audience up to speed. I thought some of the humor felt a little forced and unrealistic for the circumstances / situations and or the character (mostly Finn). The most disappointing element for me was Carrie fisher. She looked and sounded aweful and gave a weak performance. The last portion felt a tad disjointed. Hated the snoke character and the lack of any insight his character. Didn't like how Finn and rey were so capable against kylo ren. The bonds between the three new characters also seemed to become too strong too soon. And I also didn't care for how derivative it was to the original (though not surprised). Disappointed Luke didn't have one line. I totally expected it to end on Luke telling Rey "I'm your father". I really hope the rest of this trilogy isn't going to be about Rey seeking to and redeeming Ren. Ren needs to die. I'll be pissed if he just ends up mimicking vaders storyline.
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Post by Gene on Dec 20, 2015 23:36:52 GMT -5
I saw it last night and liked it quite a bit.
The use of real sets and locations brought back the weathered feeling that the original's environments had and the CGI "sets" of the prequels were lacking.
I enjoyed all of the main cast's performances. The new generation of heroes and villains never felt out of place or forced in the familiar surroundings of the Star Wars universe. Lupita Nyong'o as Maz stood out especially. I hope we see more of her in the sequels.
The script felt a little loose. I'm usually of the opinion that a good movie shows and not tells, but some exposition earlier in the film would have helped build up the threat of Starkiller Base when it finally fires its weapon. Why are those planets it destroyed so important? What are the ramifications of their destruction? The viewers should be just as motivated to see justice done as the film's heroes, and allowing the assault by Starkiller Base to hold more weight would have accomplished that.
I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but it was something I noticed: The sound design felt very flat. The original trilogy has some of the most distinct sound effects in the history of film. Hopefully, the sequels are more robust in this department.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 1:01:14 GMT -5
Not said anywhere, but easy to surmise-Finn was a trained Stormtrooper, the trooper with the electrostaff that Finn battled seemed to have training facing an opponent with a lightsaber, there was a line that one of the new Jedi (not all) failed and turned against Luke (Kylo Ren), and that finding Luke was the key to ending the last Jedi, so other lightsaber trained opponents were out there to be faced by Stormtroopers (or had been faced by Stormtroopers in the campaign by the First Order, so it is not a jump to assume part of Finn's combat training was either against lightsaber users or with a similar weapon used in a fighting style that helped his skill one on one against a trained saber user.
I think the key to Rey's identity is with the old man Poe was meeting with. He had the map (given to him by Luke before he left?) and knew Ren's true identity. Perhaps he was someone who had also trained with Luke or had family train with Luke. The flashback she had of being left on Jakku when she touched Luke's sabre hints maybe there is some familial connection there as well.
In all the Journey to Force Awakens material that has been out there particularly Shattered Empire and Aftermath-we saw the Empire didn't collapse after the battle of Endor and the death of Palpatine. Other Imperials moved to fill the power vacuum created by the death of Palpatine and Vader, but like any vast political empire it is more than 1 person that defines it. So it was severely weakened and worlds shed Imperial control to join the Rebellion forming a fledgling Republic, but the Empire never went away. The Resistance is the legacy of the Rebellion operating in territories still under Imperial control and the First Order is what arose eventually to fill the power vaccuum in the remnant Empire. Just as the French Resistance operated in Nazi controlled France and received support from the Allies, it was not part of the Allies because it existed in enemy territory. So in FA, the Resistance received support of the Republic but is not part of it because it operates in First Order controlled territories/worlds.
Han's death didn't seem out of place to me. Han was the ultimate survivor, but a gambler a well. He only ever really put it on the line when people he cared about were involved-Chewie. Leia. Luke. His son. I don't think he was gullible in the bridge scene. I think he had a pretty good idea how it was going to turn out. He knew the risk, but put it on the line to save his family-either to rescue Ben (which he knew was unlikely) or to give Leia something tangible so she could accept they had lost Ben permanently. He had to try for both their sakes, he put his own life on the line for them knowing the hand was stacked against him. I think that is a pretty heroic end for him rather than a wasted death. And yes, I am pretty sure that one of Harrison Ford's terms for coming back to do Force Awakens was that this was the last ride for Han and that they needed to have him die in this one.
I have no problems with the way the movie doled out info (or didn't). We've been spoiled by the extended universe of the Star Wars franchise. We got used to everything being handed to us on a plate and not having to work things out like we did in '77 when all we had was the fist movie, and in '80 when we got a bit more info in Empire, and not really getting to see the scope of the struggle and the politics of the galaxy until '83 with Jedi. Fans had the movies and used imagination and guesswork to fill in the gaps, it was part of the fun of being a Star Wars fan, until we got lazy and let ancillary products do that for us. The little ancillary stuff that was out there early didn't do much to fill in those gaps either (the Marvle Comic, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the Han Solo trilogy, just gave us new adventures of those characters without a lot of "official" world building.
I really enjoyed the movie. Not perfect, but it felt more Star Warsy than all of the prequels and a lot of the ancillary material could ever hope to reach. This is the kind of movie I would have wanted to come out in '86 as Episode VII if Lucas had chosen to keep making Star Wars movies after Jedi and not waited nearly 2 decades to do the prequels.
-M
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Post by Dizzy D on Dec 21, 2015 3:30:38 GMT -5
On another board, I visited somebody posted a short, non-spoiling summary of the main events between ROTJ and TFA (and really, look at how much A New Hope was throwing people into the deep end with little explanation of what was going on):
EDIT: I see that mrp also touches on a lot of the point. Sorry, didn't see your post before.
- After ROTJ the Empire basically falls apart: the Emperor had strengthened local control of the Grand Moffs so he could get rid of the senate, but it meant that he now had no successor and nothing was keeping the Empire together, admirals and Grand Moffs become local warlords fighting each other as much as the Republic. Mon Motha (leader of the Resistance) becomes the new Chancellor and revokes the emergency powers that allowed the Emperor to take control. The Republic takes back Coruscant and there is a final battle between the remnants of the old Empire (united by either a powerful warlord or some admirals/Grand Moffs finally getting together and forming a cabal. Details are in the book, but I'm reposting this from memory) and the New Republic above Jakku (the starting planet of the movie). The Republic wins and what's left of the Empire are some small time local warlords on the fringes. Mon Motha disbands the Republic fleet and replaces it with local militia for the member planets. (IMPORTANT to know: not all the planets that were part of the Old Republic or the Empire are part of the New Republic, Mon Motha left it to the planet governments themselves to determine whether they want to join the New Republic or not.) Fast forward a dozen years or so and the First Order are gaining power, building on groups of people dissatisfied with teh New Republic and nostalgic for the old Empire (think Nazi Germany building on the German Empire of WWI). They consolidate power on a few planets where local rebel groups form a Resistance against them. The New Republic is sympathetic to the rebels, but doesn't want to openly interfere, because they don't think they have the right to directly interfere in local governments (interfering with non-member planets might turn other independent planets against them), but they do give the Resistance some support. (The New Republic also seems unaware how powerful the First Order actually has become).
And some quick points: - Finn and Rey were doing so well in their fight against Kylo Ren, because Ren was seriously injured (he was bleeding heavily after Chewie shot him and probably was caught in the shockwave of the explosion as well.) Also Ren is still dealing with the death of his father, which he still has conflicted feelings about.
- I think Han dying was a good mirror to Obi-Wan's death in ANH and Luke's actions against Vader in ROTJ. Han doesn't fight back because he still believes in his son.
- I really like Kylo Ren as a villain BTW, especially because he's not as menacing as Vader and the other Sith. He's very conflicted throughout the whole movie and the death of Han is basically the end of his fall. He's no Vader or Palpatine or even a Maul, he's a better realized Anakin from halfway through Revenge of the Sith.
- I do think that Rey was too powerful too quickly, but there are some hints as to why (in the flashback, Rey is spoken to by Max von Sydow's character, the same character from the beginning of the movie who had (part of) Luke Skywalker's location.) and it does seem to be a plotpoint for future movies.
- And for something completely different: Hands up who noticed Daniel Craig? (I totally missed that it was him).
2nd EDIT: I also love the Stormtroopers in this movie: they are menacing, dangerous and most importantly show character. Even excluding Finn, you have the Stormtrooper that sees Finn and yells "traitor". One of my favourite moments in the movie. Or the two troopers that turn around when they notice that Ren is throwing a temper tantrum.
Disappointments with the movie: - The Stormtrooper Captain felt like a waste of a good actress. Hope she returns in the next movie. - Rey was increasing in power too quickly (though part of it was the direct mental contact with Kylo Ren IMHO. Luke didn't engage with a dark side user till ESB and Vader was far better trained and more controlled than Rey.), but as I said, that seems to be a plotpoint. - R2's role felt unnecessary. - The Starkiller base was pretty much unneeded for the story (in my mind the story is about the characters and the search for Luke, the superweapon was unimportant to either journey), but I think they felt the need to include another Death Star level weapon and it was an easy way to take the Republic out of the game.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Dec 21, 2015 8:08:33 GMT -5
I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but it was something I noticed: The sound design felt very flat. The original trilogy has some of the most distinct sound effects in the history of film. Hopefully, the sequels are more robust in this department. I don't know about the sound design, so much, I thought that was pretty much "business as usual" for a Star Wars film, but I did feel that for the first time ever John Williams's score was just OK, rather than out of this world.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Dec 21, 2015 8:16:04 GMT -5
Oh, something else that nobody has mentioned and which I didn't notice at the time, but have read about online since: Ewan McGregor had a brief voice cameo as Obi-Wan Kenobi shouting "Rey!" when she touched Luke's lightsaber. That is no doubt significant.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 21, 2015 10:07:22 GMT -5
Oh, something else that nobody has mentioned and which I didn't notice at the time, but have read about online since: Ewan McGregor had a brief voice cameo as Obi-Wan Kenobi shouting "Rey!" when she touched Luke's lightsaber. That is no doubt significant. Apparently that was a mix of McGregor and through some high-tech highjinks Alec Guinness. I didn't hear it when I saw it, but I read about it after the fact.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 21, 2015 11:14:41 GMT -5
Alright, just saw it. I thought it was terrible. I really did. I went in expecting to be entertained and I wasn't. I thought it looked quite cheap for 2015, nothing really epic happened, the editing was hectic and at times made little sense as it jumped from one place to another back and forth even more manicly than a GOT episode, especialy in the last act. Some of the acting really distracted me, but the bigest distraction was the constant and over-present musical score that really annoyed me. Han Solo was alright, which I didn't expect, but his character seemed to seek the same as its actor : "Get me out of here, please, by any means!". I don't understand how they could make such a bland movie. It first looked good as I thought the intro was a sneak reverse with us following on-the-run shattered empire troops, and feeling for them before getting the reveal the situation was reversed (which would have been mighty cool IMHO!), but no, it was just the most generic plot you could imagine, with the whinest Darth Vador substitute to date, all the reveals coming too early and without any momentum (Han's son), or too late with no satisfying explaination (The pilot's survival). It really was a mess and the conclusion also made little sense : the heores won, destroyed in a mere 20 mn the biggest menace ever (yeah, they told you it was bigger, duh...), for all they know killed all the bad guys, and yet, they still seem antsy, and the reason why they have to seek out Luke (and send to him a total stranger when Leia was available...), with the least satisfactionary conclusion of any of the previous episodes, the first one that really was not a conclusion to a chapter but the begining of something else, that you'll have to pay for again in two years. At least, ANH, ESB and ROTJ all concluded with a proper ending.
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Post by batlaw on Dec 21, 2015 11:36:30 GMT -5
I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but it was something I noticed: The sound design felt very flat. The original trilogy has some of the most distinct sound effects in the history of film. Hopefully, the sequels are more robust in this department. I don't know about the sound design, so much, I thought that was pretty much "business as usual" for a Star Wars film, but I did feel that for the first time ever John Williams's score was just OK, rather than out of this world. agreed
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 21, 2015 21:57:34 GMT -5
Oh, something else that nobody has mentioned and which I didn't notice at the time, but have read about online since: Ewan McGregor had a brief voice cameo as Obi-Wan Kenobi shouting "Rey!" when she touched Luke's lightsaber. That is no doubt significant. EW ArticleAbrams gives the details of the various people in that scene.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 6:20:25 GMT -5
Ever have that time where you see a film, think it's AMAZING, start a thread where you can share that excitement with all your online buds, and then learn that no one else liked it as much as you? Yeah, that's been me, and I just haven't been up for debating the issue which is why I've been hanging back since starting this thread
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 6:33:47 GMT -5
Ever have that time where you see a film, think it's AMAZING, start a thread where you can share that excitement with all your online buds, and then learn that no one else liked it as much as you? Yeah, that's been me, and I just haven't been up for debating the issue which is why I've been hanging back since starting this thread Well I liked it too! To each their own though. I'm not going to let other people's dislike for it influence my enjoyment of it. Each person is right for themselves, but for no one else. -M
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 6:43:58 GMT -5
Ever have that time where you see a film, think it's AMAZING, start a thread where you can share that excitement with all your online buds, and then learn that no one else liked it as much as you? Yeah, that's been me, and I just haven't been up for debating the issue which is why I've been hanging back since starting this thread Well I liked it too! To each their own though. I'm not going to let other people's dislike for it influence my enjoyment of it. Each person is right for themselves, but for no one else. -M Oh, I do know. It just caught me completely off guard that everyone wasn't out in the streets dancing and celebrating after seeing it. I'm still on a high I haven't come down from since seeing it opening night. And I know it wasn't just the rush of seeing it opening night either. I know exactly what I loved about it, but I don't feel like battling that out with others who disagree, you know? I don't want to give others the chance to make me love it less when it's giving me this much joy right now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 10:31:12 GMT -5
Okay, I may not be dancing in the street, but I was eager to talk about the movie for the next few days (nobody at work had seen it yet), and it's been a while since I felt like that. There were things I loved about it. I loved Harrison Ford; he got all the best lines. I loved that the Stormtroopers seemed really dangerous for once; their attack on the village early on was the baddest they've ever been. I loved seeing Max von Sydow. I loved seeing Chewie. I liked the way Han's death was handled. As soon as he tells Chewie 'we'll meet back here' you know one of them isn't making it. And no over-the-top heroic end; he dies because he put his life on the line for someone he loved. It's easily the best Star Wars since Empire, and probably has the best acting and scripting of any of them. Abrams does know what Star Wars fans want, as opposed to Trek fans.
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Post by Warmonger on Dec 22, 2015 11:00:43 GMT -5
Man, some of you guys are hard to please.
My thought process all along had been "at least it can't be any worse than the craptastic prequels".
And it wasn't. I was thoroughly entertained throughout.
No constant talk of boring crap like intergalactic peace treaties by wooden actors. And they didn't film the entire thing in front of a green screen.
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