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Post by dupersuper on Dec 22, 2015 11:38:55 GMT -5
-The actress that plays Rey was not good... she had one 'grit-my-teeth' face that was the only one she could use to portay any sort of emotion. The CHARACTER was good, but the actress didn't really pull it off (not quite as bad as Terry Farrell but the same ball park). She had good chemistry with Finn, but not with the old cast. I thought she was really good, and I loved her chemistry with Fin.
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Post by dupersuper on Dec 22, 2015 11:40:11 GMT -5
Oh, but where was Lando??? I was wondering that myself.
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Post by Pharozonk on Dec 22, 2015 11:50:27 GMT -5
Man, some of you guys are hard to please. My thought process all along had been "at least it can't be any worse than the craptastic prequels". And it wasn't. I was thoroughly entertained throughout. No constant talk of boring crap like intergalactic peace treaties by wooden actors. And they didn't film the entire thing in front of a green screen. I actually never minded the trade and peace treaty discussions in the prequels. It felt like an interesting way to go about world building, especially if we're supposed to be learning about how the galaxy functioned before the Empire took over.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 12:34:10 GMT -5
Man, some of you guys are hard to please. My thought process all along had been "at least it can't be any worse than the craptastic prequels". And it wasn't. I was thoroughly entertained throughout. No constant talk of boring crap like intergalactic peace treaties by wooden actors. And they didn't film the entire thing in front of a green screen. I actually never minded the trade and peace treaty discussions in the prequels. It felt like an interesting way to go about world building, especially if we're supposed to be learning about how the galaxy functioned before the Empire took over. I wouldn't have minded, except that most of it made absolutely no sense
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 12:36:36 GMT -5
BTW this was the most insightful review I've ever seen of the Star Wars prequels. Some of the criticism is sure genius and helps me to understand exactly WHY I didn't like the films through sheer objective logic and really meticulous behind-the-scenes research. Force Awakens didn't fall into ANY of these traps.
A word of warning -- cursing is involved, and the narrator feels the need to give himself a creepy fictitious backstory that totally disrupts an otherwise brilliant series of reviews at times.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 22, 2015 13:02:53 GMT -5
-The actress that plays Rey was not good... she had one 'grit-my-teeth' face that was the only one she could use to portay any sort of emotion. The CHARACTER was good, but the actress didn't really pull it off (not quite as bad as Terry Farrell but the same ball park). She had good chemistry with Finn, but not with the old cast. I thought she was really good, and I loved her chemistry with Fin. I agree her Chemistry with Finn was good, but she has the same expression for every emotion, and it got tiresome by the end... sort of like Luke's whining in the originals.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 22, 2015 13:07:49 GMT -5
Ever have that time where you see a film, think it's AMAZING, start a thread where you can share that excitement with all your online buds, and then learn that no one else liked it as much as you? Yeah, that's been me, and I just haven't been up for debating the issue which is why I've been hanging back since starting this thread Maybe if you tell them what you thought was amazing they'll agree I was looking back and you're right, the posts here are pretty lukewarm... I liked it alot more than my review sounded (I went twice, after all, and still have to take the wife and the little ones). I would have liked a bit less parallels with A New Hope, but the sights, sounds and FEEL were all spot on. That's the important thing. Hopefully with the 2nd one we'll see a bit more of an original story to go with the cool characters and set up.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 13:10:58 GMT -5
Ever have that time where you see a film, think it's AMAZING, start a thread where you can share that excitement with all your online buds, and then learn that no one else liked it as much as you? Yeah, that's been me, and I just haven't been up for debating the issue which is why I've been hanging back since starting this thread Maybe if you tell them what you thought was amazing they'll agree I was looking back and you're right, the posts here are pretty lukewarm... I liked it alot more than my review sounded (I went twice, after all, and still have to take the wife and the little ones). I would have liked a bit less parallels with A New Hope, but the sights, sounds and FEEL were all spot on. That's the important thing. Hopefully with the 2nd one we'll see a bit more of an original story to go with the cool characters and set up. I would agree that the plot was the one place in the film where I feel criticism might be deserved. There are some plot holes, and while Abrahms managed to avoid any obnoxiously blatant nods to the original film, the whole thing is structured exactly like it when you stop and think. On the one hand, that's kind of a cool decision. On the other, if you're looking for Star Wars to move to a new level, that's not the way to do it. I didn't mind, but I can see why some would. But then, moving in an entirely new direction without first establishing firm footing is more of a risk and, I think, after surviving the prequels, fans needed something a little more safe and firmly embedded in the original trilogy for this first outing.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Dec 22, 2015 17:34:24 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing it. Overall, I enjoyed it much more than any of the prequels, though it didn't rise to the level of of the original trilogy. It just misses being as good as Return of the Jedi for me. I agree that it was striking how closely it followed the plot of A New Hope. I get why they chose to do this, given the way the prequels went, but I'm hoping for a bit more innovation with the upcoming films. My gut tells me that they're going to branch out as the series unfolds. I agree with other posters that the First Order and the Resistance relationship to the Republic needed to be explained a bit more, but I think we all get the general gist. It all does seem to undermine the Rebel's victory at the end of Jedi, but when you think about it, it really doesn't. The incomplete Death Star was hardly the bulk of the Empire and galactic empires that big just don't go away over night.
I was most surprised with how much I liked the new characters. I think they all did a fine job, particularly the character of Finn, and more importantly, they were all likable. This is an area where the prequels failed virtually to a character. I was a bit unsatisfied at Kylo's poor performance against Rey in the lightsaber duel, but he was injured from Chewie's shot, and kept hitting at the wound, so I'm going to assume that this was meant to be the cause. After the Jedi/Sith heaviness of the prequels, I think it was a good idea to tone down the force-powers for the first installment of the new films. That said, I'd like to see a balance of acrobatic force-movement and classic sword-fighting as we progress in the series.
I'm still unclear (obviously) if there are other Jedi apprentices out there that Luke trained or if Kylo Ren was supposed to have killed ALL of them. Perhaps he has them out there on missions or in hiding? I'll be shocked if Rey doesn't turn out to be Luke's daughter, and while I like the idea, I kind of hope they through us a curveball. The big mystery, of course, is Supreme Leader Snoke. Given the ancient history of the Sith, he could be anyone, with the top theory right now seeming to be that he's the Darth Plagius that Sidious mentions in Revenge of the Sith. I think I'll be able to enjoy the movie more, and absorb more details, when I can watch it at home. I found the sound quality, at least the voice levels, to be poor in the screening I went to and I missed some dialog here and there.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 18:04:29 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing it. Overall, I enjoyed it much more than any of the prequels, though it didn't rise to the level of of the original trilogy. It just misses being as good as Return of the Jedi for me. I agree that it was striking how closely it followed the plot of A New Hope. I get why they chose to do this, given the way the prequels went, but I'm hoping for a bit more innovation with the upcoming films. It's striking how much the plot of "A New Hope" is a step by step following of the classic hero's journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in A Hero With a Thousand Faces. Lucas even admits to the influence of Campbell's work on Star Wars and he consciously chose the archetypes outlined for each of the roles in the movie based on that classic hero's journey. Abrams is/was going back to those archetypes and influence here too it seems. So he's copying George who is copying Joe who is spelling out the timeless repeated patterns of heroic stories in myth. -M
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Dec 22, 2015 18:28:01 GMT -5
Ever have that time where you see a film, think it's AMAZING, start a thread where you can share that excitement with all your online buds, and then learn that no one else liked it as much as you? Yeah, that's been me, and I just haven't been up for debating the issue which is why I've been hanging back since starting this thread Well I liked it too! To each their own though. I'm not going to let other people's dislike for it influence my enjoyment of it. Each person is right for themselves, but for no one else. -M I liked it fine. In fact, I liked it a LOT. I just didn't think it was amazing and in certain aspects it was actually quite flawed. But I enjoyed it as it played and I'll definitely go and see it again. The five star reviews it's been getting are a bit of a headscratcher for me, but it was all that I was expecting it to be really: a decent space fantasy film and better than the prequels, but it didn't match the magic of the original trilogy. Man, some of you guys are hard to please. My thought process all along had been "at least it can't be any worse than the craptastic prequels". And it wasn't. I was thoroughly entertained throughout. No constant talk of boring crap like intergalactic peace treaties by wooden actors. And they didn't film the entire thing in front of a green screen. Well, you should be hard to please too. In all things! Don't settle for anything other than the best in music, writing or any other type of art or entertainment. Just because The Force Awakens was better than the prequels, which I agree it was, doesn't mean it was a faultless success. Man, some of you guys are hard to please. My thought process all along had been "at least it can't be any worse than the craptastic prequels". And it wasn't. I was thoroughly entertained throughout. No constant talk of boring crap like intergalactic peace treaties by wooden actors. And they didn't film the entire thing in front of a green screen. I actually never minded the trade and peace treaty discussions in the prequels. It felt like an interesting way to go about world building, especially if we're supposed to be learning about how the galaxy functioned before the Empire took over. Agreed. I kinda liked the fact that parts of the prequels played out like a political drama. Although I disliked the fact that George Lucas tended to "tell us" rather than "show us" in the prequels, in some ways The Force Awakens goes too far the other way. A few additional background details about how the First Order rose to power, how the Resistance came too be and some background on the Starkiller Base would've made the film much better. The original Star Wars film threw us head first into the galactic civil war when cinema audiences knew nothing about the Empire, the Rebellion, the Senate, the Emperor, the Jedi Knights or anything else in the Star Wars galaxy, but the screenplay took the time to fill us in on all the stuff we needed to know. Audiences weren't told every detail, of course, but they were given enough background info that they weren't wondering why stuff was happening. I wouldn't have minded, except that most of it made absolutely no sense Not to be snarky, but which bits didn't make sense to you? I thought that Senator Palpatine's devious manipulations of the Galactic Senate and the principal cast members was one of the most successful aspects of the prequel trilogy. We'd known, roughly speaking, that this was how a weak, relatively powerless senator had risen to become supreme Emperor ever since the publication of the novelization of the first movie back in 1976. Finally seeing that happening in the prequels was, for me, one of the more satisfying aspects of those movies.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Dec 22, 2015 18:48:24 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing it. Overall, I enjoyed it much more than any of the prequels, though it didn't rise to the level of of the original trilogy. It just misses being as good as Return of the Jedi for me. I agree that it was striking how closely it followed the plot of A New Hope. I get why they chose to do this, given the way the prequels went, but I'm hoping for a bit more innovation with the upcoming films. It's striking how much the plot of "A New Hope" is a step by step following of the classic hero's journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in A Hero With a Thousand Faces. Lucas even admits to the influence of Campbell's work on Star Wars and he consciously chose the archetypes outlined for each of the roles in the movie based on that classic hero's journey. Abrams is/was going back to those archetypes and influence here too it seems. So he's copying George who is copying Joe who is spelling out the timeless repeated patterns of heroic stories in myth. -M I'm sure that's the case, and I of course know of the Joseph Campbell influence on Lucas, but I wouldn't doubt if it was as much a case of Abrams wanting to associate the new film with the beloved original trilogy mainly out of a sense of nostalgia, rather than a deep philosophical motivation to keep the basic patterns going.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 19:48:35 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing it. Overall, I enjoyed it much more than any of the prequels, though it didn't rise to the level of of the original trilogy. It just misses being as good as Return of the Jedi for me. I agree that it was striking how closely it followed the plot of A New Hope. I get why they chose to do this, given the way the prequels went, but I'm hoping for a bit more innovation with the upcoming films. It's striking how much the plot of "A New Hope" is a step by step following of the classic hero's journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in A Hero With a Thousand Faces. Lucas even admits to the influence of Campbell's work on Star Wars and he consciously chose the archetypes outlined for each of the roles in the movie based on that classic hero's journey. Abrams is/was going back to those archetypes and influence here too it seems. So he's copying George who is copying Joe who is spelling out the timeless repeated patterns of heroic stories in myth. -M As much as I agree about the source material (in fact I show Episode IV to my mythology class every year when we do Joseph Campbell and discuss our modern American mythology), there's a lot of evidence that Abraham was specifically trying to reinvoke Episode IV and not just Joseph Campbell (though I've no doubt he was aware of the source material and took pains to adhere to it too).
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 19:53:35 GMT -5
I wouldn't have minded, except that most of it made absolutely no sense Not to be snarky, but which bits didn't make sense to you? I thought that Senator Palpatine's devious manipulations of the Galactic Senate and the principal cast members was one of the most successful aspects of the prequel trilogy. We'd known, roughly speaking, that this was how a weak, relatively powerless senator had risen to become supreme Emperor ever since the publication of the novelization of the first movie back in 1976. Finally seeing that happening in the prequels was, for me, one of the more satisfying aspects of those movies. Not snarky at all. Honestly, it's been a very long time since I watched any of the prequels and I have no intention of ever doing so again, but as I recall, there was a whole lot that didn't make sense: - who is taxing what, and why does the trade federation have a problem with this? - Why is the TRADE federation's solution to therefore shut down TRADE? Isn't that how they make their money? - What goods is Amadalla's planet so desperately in need of that they can't handle an embargo for even a day? They look like they are living the lavish life on a fertile planet rich in water and natural resources, and they even have a pretty intense looking power generator. - How do you create a blockade around an entire planet anyway? - Why does the trade federation have a full fledged military? - Why are Jedi called in to settle a trade dispute? - Why do high ranking trade federation people accept some mysterious thug's orders to kill the two Jedi who come to broker the deal without any sort of provocation? I'm forgetting a lot of this, I'm sure, but that's what I think I recall off hand. It just seemed that, despite all the talking heads and fancy jargon, there wasn't all that much concrete substance to the dispute and the forces driving it beyond the idea that Palpatine was playing both sides for his own gain.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 22, 2015 20:09:28 GMT -5
Hey Shaxper, a negative review is not meant to undermine your satisfaction with this movie, it really doesn't need to be antagonistic I agree the prequels were a mess, but at least they tried to build this world further. FMPOV, this new movie does no such thing, which really is an issue as in the end, you get nothing more then (in my opinion clumsy) fan service. And I really felt the plot had no groove : I can't imagine a kid of today's mind being set on fire by this. There was so much potential, but they went the safest and therefore blandest road. It's probably not the worst film ever, but the potential was so big that the let down feels gigantic. It actually made me sad/angry. How could this be exciting as it's a remake of the first film and adds nothing to the mythology but a two new characters, much less interesting ones then Luke and Han in the first movie. In this movie they did exactly what you had an issue with in the prequels : instead of showing us those characters tragedy, htey told us it... But the greatest sin of all in this new movie is the lack of "Wow!", either visualy or storywise. Even his second and deeply flawed Star Trek had more of this in both departments...
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