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Post by mikelmidnight on May 2, 2017 12:47:01 GMT -5
(That exception does not prove the rule. the rule. Grumblegripegrumblegripegrumblegripe). Say mikelmidnight , are you referring to the Dave Sim-drawn page in Howard the Duck magazine #8? I didn't dislike it. There seemed to be something wrong with Bev's arm but I could have gotten used to Dave's Howard the duck. (His Duck-Thing was pretty cool!)
I'm not sure, but there was a sample page I've seen of the pair in bed together. Howard behaved like a leering frat boy and Bev was a vapid airhead - and those are NOT the way Gerber wrote either of them.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 2, 2017 13:21:57 GMT -5
(That exception does not prove the rule. the rule. Grumblegripegrumblegripegrumblegripe). Say mikelmidnight , are you referring to the Dave Sim-drawn page in Howard the Duck magazine #8? I didn't dislike it. There seemed to be something wrong with Bev's arm but I could have gotten used to Dave's Howard the duck. (His Duck-Thing was pretty cool!)
I'm not sure, but there was a sample page I've seen of the pair in bed together. Howard behaved like a leering frat boy and Bev was a vapid airhead - and those are NOT the way Gerber wrote either of them.
That must be it, for the last panel has them in bed (as per Mantlo's vision rather than Gerber's). Howard was saying that what he lacked in superpowers he made up in fringe benefits.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 5, 2017 10:40:02 GMT -5
It's been months, I say, months! Excessive duration, that is.
Mothers & Daughters and Guys are now fair game!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 28, 2019 7:24:40 GMT -5
Something fell.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 22, 2019 17:19:23 GMT -5
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Oct 22, 2019 17:28:37 GMT -5
Wow. New to me too. I don't own most of the Sword of Cerebus series.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Oct 23, 2019 11:47:04 GMT -5
It's nonsensical but extremely pretty, and I don't think it's been reprinted (I keep hoping one day for a book collection of all these odds & ends ... I think I have all of them but I'm not sure).
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 13, 2021 21:57:55 GMT -5
4.5 years later I'm suddenly motivated to resume this thread and read half of Flight today. I plan to finish it (it's really short) and post my thoughts tomorrow. Anyone else interested in getting back on the horse with me? Newcomers are always welcome to start with the early volumes and post their thoughts along with us! BTW you can download each volume here for a fee, but owner/creator Dave Sim also gives his blessing for you to download it for free from other (usually illegal) sources. In keeping with proboards' terms of service, I will not mention those sites here and will not discuss them via private message either, but a simple google search for "Cerebus free online" will lead you to them.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 14, 2021 14:16:04 GMT -5
Sim deserves every penny he can get for this series.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 14, 2021 21:43:14 GMT -5
Sim deserves every penny he can get for this series. I'm truly amazed he hasn't done a kickstarter for Omnibus editions of the series, or at least hardcover volumes with higher quality paper. Back in the mid 2000s, someone was selling a custom leatherbound set of the series on ebay, and I didn't have the cash. I've been kicking myself ever since. BTW I didn't get to finish Flight tonight, so it'll be tomorrow instead, hopefully. I'd love to get others back in the game!
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Post by String on Jun 3, 2021 13:20:24 GMT -5
Coincidences of a certain kind help remind one that perhaps you are on the right path or have made a proper choice. I had such a coincidence today.
About a week ago, I developed an itch to re-read Cerebus. Now, it must be stated, whenever this itch arises, I feel it is absolutely necessary that I start from the beginning. Regardless of how many times I may have read these volumes, to acquire the proper sense and appreciation of this opus each time I read it, I need to start from Vol 1.
Which I have done. Of the phonebook editions, I have Vols. 1-9. So I was thinking it might be about time to finish off the run. Now, today, I was in my LCS looking for some particular TMNT trades (found' em) and when lo' and behold, I spotted a copy of Church & State II on their shelf. I've always found it extremely rare whenever I see any of the phonebook editions on a store shelf whether it be a bookstore or comic store or what have you.
I was intrigued. Then, on the next bookcase, a copy of Jaka's Story. Ok, even better now. Then, next bookcase, a copy of Reads. Now you really got my attention. And there it was, on the bottom shelf of the last bookcase, a copy of Minds Vol. 10, the next book I needed in my collection.
I almost laughed aloud. What are the chances, I decide to re-read/finish my Cerebus collection and here's the next volume I need. SNATCH!
When I got home, I was intrigued to see the banner 'Remastered edition' across the top of the front cover. Turns out this copy is a sixth printing. It has intro by Sims, the story, and then a 2-3 page essay on the remastering. I'm not fully sure what this entailed but just glossing over it, it seems part of it was acquiring the original art or sources of the original issues for the art to be digitally scanned for reprint (gotta say, the art does look striking).
I haven't read the essay just in case it also had something to do with the story line because I've never read up this far in this saga so y'know, no spoilers. But I do think it's interesting that there is a 6-8 year gap between the fifth and sixth printings. (The sixth is listed as 2018).
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Post by String on Jun 3, 2021 13:42:09 GMT -5
As for the re-re-re-read, I'm about halfway through Vol 1. Awhile back, I acquired Swords of Cerebus #2-3 from eBay which collects #5-12. So when appropriate, I switched to these in my re-reading because I wanted to read Sims' intros and anecdotes.
Most if not all were enlightening and entertaining. The one that I liked the most was the intro to #11, first appearance of the Cockroach otherwise known as Cootie. Sims apparently suffered a nervous breakdown after completing this issue, I was unaware of that. A result apparently of the culmination of pressures, both professional and private, successes and failures. But in this intro, he acknowledges the importance of Marshall Rogers and his ideas about Batman (excuse me...THE Batman) on the creation of Cootie.
It's obvious of course that is who Cootie is parodying at first but to read how Sims was entranced by Rogers' heady thoughts about the nature of THE Batman, a person draped and drowning in darkness and tragedy, it added more to Cootie when I read that issue and it's follow-up. It also made the comedy even more authentic because as Sims notes, tragedy and comedy are not that far apart. I also loved how Sims felt like taking it all to the extreme, what if Bruce Wayne never realizes that he is THE Batman? So the Cootie has separate personalities as a result.
It was also around #9 or #10 (first one about Cerebus attempting to conquer Imesh & King K'Cor and the next is his second encounter with Red Sophia) that Sims started to realize that the backgrounds were becoming less important as the plotting and characterization were becoming. He makes the assertion that he is a writer who draws rather than an artist who writes.
That's an amazing and important distinction especially for him to make this early in his career. For me, the Cockroach two-parter started the book and the character onto more familiar and potent themes such as the power of manipulations and their inevitable costs.
I want to acquire Swords of Cerebus #4 which contains the Palnu trilogy and the intro of Lord Julius. Be interesting to read any and all ruminations by Sims on these issues as they are quite the game-changer and expander on the series.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 7, 2021 14:17:18 GMT -5
Finally finished my re-read of Flight today. It took me much longer than expected to get back to it. Folks often point to this one as being a return to greatness for Sim since the action returns and the plot seems to advance again, but I sort of feel like Sim is having a joke with us on this one. He knew this was what the fans had been asking for in the wake of Jakka's Story and Melmoth, but it's hard not to see the cockroach's quest in this story as a metaphor for the entire volume (and perhaps the Cerebus series as a whole). You think you understand it all; you believe you see the meaning in things. So the excitement and intensity rises, rises, rises, only to climax with a total lack of fulfillment and understanding, leaving you more lost and misguided than when you began. Or maybe Sim is just enjoying almost literally f*cking with us, as the entire story is a series of build-ups to orgasms, both literal and figurative, and seems to end with Cerebus penetrating both Astoria and Cirin and, well, ejaculating: even though this doesn't seem to literally happen (I read the first few pages of the next volume) and it doesn't make sense on a metaphorical level as Cerebus is toppling from the heavens after losing his chess match with Suentus Po. Sometimes Sim is brilliant, and sometimes he's clearly high and just making sh*t up. The difficulty is in deciding where one ends and the other begins. For example, Sim's idea that political power and martyr stories just repeat endlessly, offering only slight hope for humanity's improvement, was kind of deep. Maybe we don't ever learn from history, despite our assertions, and just repeat it. Suentus Po's story going the way of Jesus, right to the point of his initial jailor inadvertently quoting Pontius Pilate was pretty cool. I wonder how well this vision will merge with the new vision of the Judeo-Christian bible Cerebus/Sim goes on to create in the second to final volume. One thing that is clear is that Sim enjoys not having all the answers. A long time ago in this thread, I described Sim as an upstart who enjoys pointing out the flaws in all that he sees without having the ability to suggest an alternative, and that holds up well here. We're constantly shown the highest celestial beings governing this universe and then shown that they are just as clueless about the Truth of reality as we are, not even entirely sure who is really running the show. So, going along with this, is Sim really a misogynist, or is he just trying to understand men and women, enjoying criticizing both genders endlessly in the process? The depth to which he considers the ongoing debate between Astoria and Cirin would suggest some level of investment and pathos, even if his fundamental understanding of femininity as being defined by procreation is limited. He at least gives it more thought than masculinity, which comes off as little more than aggressive and stupid. Surely, this moment shows more consideration and affection for women than for men: And I feel that we've consistently had that attitude in Cerebus since at least High Society. Women can sure suck, but they at least make more sense than men. I'll be curious to see what changes by the time of Reads or if, in fact, anything changes at all. After all, if even Death and The Judge are not to be trusted, maybe the Dave Sim who enters the book in order to condemn femininity and feminism, and maybe even the Dave Sim of the letters page, are artificial constructs who don't exactly get it right, either. Sim either hates easy answers or accepts that he cannot provide them. I doubt that's going to change in two more volumes. Now, being provocative and poking a hornet's nest just to get some attention? I very much believe Sim would do that. And I still maintain that the ultimate climax of this 300 page saga that occurs in Going Home is a final condemnation of our culture's sense of masculinity, even while acknowledging how capricious and unreliable our culture's sense of feminism can be. My favorite moment from this volume is certainly the moment where Cerebus is reunited with a supporter he (and we) had long since forgotten about from Church & State II(?): Though I still think so much of this volume was hogwash. And, speaking of which, with all the unnecessary backstory we get on Suentus Po, we learn nothing more about why there are three Aardvarks in this world, what they represent, nor whether Cerebus or Cirin got former lives too (and, if so, why is Suentus Po the only one present as a ghost as opposed to a corporeal being living in the present moment. He briefly mentions where his current incarnation is living, but we never see him). Minor details: - What's up with the little Cerebus who shows up as he is ascending? - What caused Cerebus to ascend anyway, and why come all that way just to play a game of chess and lose? What the hell was the point? We don't even see Cerebus make some error that helps to explain this outcome. He's pretty much a passive participant, playing a game of chess when we never get to see the actual board arrangement or understand his strategy/lack-thereof. - Arguably the best cameo of the entire series: - Sim's nods to current comic books are certainly endless and often needless, but I never noticed before that Cirin's appearance is, to some extent, a nod to Raven from DC's new Teen Titans. WHY?? She's not exactly a practitioner of Azar.
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Post by tonebone on Jun 7, 2021 16:00:05 GMT -5
4.5 years later I'm suddenly motivated to resume this thread and read half of Flight today. I plan to finish it (it's really short) and post my thoughts tomorrow. Anyone else interested in getting back on the horse with me? Newcomers are always welcome to start with the early volumes and post their thoughts along with us! BTW you can download each volume here for a fee, but owner/creator Dave Sim also gives his blessing for you to download it for free from other (usually illegal) sources. In keeping with proboards' terms of service, I will not mention those sites here and will not discuss them via private message either, but a simple google search for "Cerebus free online" will lead you to them. This may have been covered, here before, but I just read that Sim's will states that upon his death, Cerebus is to go into the public domain, for anyone to reproduce, or create new material.
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Post by tonebone on Jun 7, 2021 16:16:18 GMT -5
Hello! I just found this discussion today and read all 27 pages! This is a terrific forum! I am an old (in many senses of the word) Cerebus reader. I started reading it in high school and I know I was regularly buying it in college!(My photo in the college yearbook shows me reading a Cerebus comic and wearing a Cerbus pin!) This was starting with the High Society issues. I kept buying it even after I had given up all other comics. I even managed to utilize "Jaka's Story" in a Decadent Literature course in grad school. HOWEVER...Dave Sim the writer, and Dave Sim the publisher conspired against me to dislike Dave Sim the artist. I completed my collection (Cerebus bi-weekly 1-20ish and regular monthly books 20ish through 300), but I have not read them all. I grew to resent the ret-cons, the verbose prose, the forced literary lectures, and the deadly pace of the stories. I gave up reading sometime in the Three Stooges section, whatever it is called. I hope engage in this discussion with you all. I have never been an internet forum participant before. I gotta tell you though, there are bits from Cerebus that STILL make me laugh! Wuffa-wuffa-wuffa, puncheminnaface, "Cerebus told you his britches were too tight," Archbishop Posey, etc. And yes, "something fell" often echoes through my mind when I hear something fall. What's the next assignment? I, too, just discovered this thread. And, like you, I also was reading the High Society issues, sporadically, in High School. I didn't have access to a comic shop, but would sometimes mail order big discount boxes of them, and usually, there were some scattered Cerebus issues. It wasn't until 15 or so years ago I started buying the "phone books", starting with High Society, then Church and State, and, just recently, the first volume. I love the first volume, and High Society, and even the first volume of Church and State, but by the second volume of C&S I felt it got bogged down in some metaphysical stuff I just couldn't parse... the differences in the religions, the nature of God, etc. Hence, I have never progressed beyond that volume. I haven't read them in a decade, now. Perhaps it's time to give the C&S volumes another chance and maybe continue through the series. Any pointers from longtime Cerebus readers?
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