|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 15:54:17 GMT -5
If I may add an aside, I'm digging your Cap podcast!
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on May 27, 2017 15:56:55 GMT -5
Stories like this are why I never got excited about Captain America s a kid (with the exception of the Simon & Kirby reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces). Lots of good art (Kirby, Steranko, Colan, Romita), but mostly dead-on-arrival plots. It took Steve Englehart to turn me on to Cap.
Cei-U! I summon the true confessions!
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on May 27, 2017 18:16:39 GMT -5
I have to say that the thread drift about science in the Marvel Universe was very entertaining. I just want to add that maybe it was as hokey and impossible as the DC explanations, but Marvel was at least consistent with it throughout their early years. Unstable molecules are still " a thing" in the current Marvel world. DC's explanations were more of a throw away in their stories.
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on May 27, 2017 18:53:52 GMT -5
I don't require my comic book/movie/television/novel science fiction to be completely factual/actual/real. Has everyone forgotten comic books are fantasy/escapism and not real? Cartoon science, comic book science and science fiction novels in general used to be fun, exciting and speculative without being so concerned with the real life working aspects of it. I don't need the actual mechanics of knowing how Star Trek's transporter would actually work since it was only a plot device to avoid expensive effect shots and to get the characters from the ship to planet side quickly. Do we really need every little bit explained for us to enjoy or believe in it? No overthinking it all please. I get what you're saying, but the problem is that there are no rules with Marvel Silver Age Science. Things work because Stan wrote that they do, without any sort of explanation. Radiation, magnetism, hypnosis, transistors; they all do what Stan wants them to do in whatever situation he wants to use them, without any grounding in actual science. I explore a couple of these situations in significant detail in a couple of upcoming reviews, looking at exactly how far off Stan is with his writing. The need for rules is critical to maintain internal consistency, so once something is established, it stays that way going forward, rather than using magnetism to do 75 different things across the entire line of books because the situation called for something to be "sciencey" and Stan had used radiation last month to explain why something happened. A lot of it is generational - Stan and Kirby grew up on cowboys and detectives and viewed superheroes as goofy kid stuff, probably the most infantile of genres. Stan tosses out insulting comments about "long underwear characters" in the first Spidey story in Amazing Fantasy 15, ferinstance. So I excuse a lot of this because their approach was nudgingly tongue in cheek - they never expected adult readers to take superheroes completely seriously. This is much less hard sci-fi than melodrama. Stan and Jack were trying for some degree of EMOTIONAL realism, and there's some incredibly effective world-building in Stan's New York - but the plotting was often kinda nonsensical and the stories were (and I'm sure they would admit this) fairly goofy. (And, honestly, I prefer Stan's approach. The last 35 years of so of incredibly serious emo superheroes have always struck me as slightly pathetic. Superheroes ARE inherently goofy and it strikes me as arrested adolescence on the part of both creators and fans to act otherwise. Depression era kids and WW II era veterans like Stan and Jack* would have no time for that crap.) Which doesn't make comics of this era exempt from criticism - but I'd critique them as a combination of boy's adventure, Joseph Heller style post-modern influenced literature and moral mythology... none of which have strict "rules" that are based in realism per se.** * Respectively.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on May 29, 2017 8:32:52 GMT -5
Stories like this are why I never got excited about Captain America s a kid (with the exception of the Simon & Kirby reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces). Lots of good art (Kirby, Steranko, Colan, Romita), but mostly dead-on-arrival plots. It took Steve Englehart to turn me on to Cap. Cei-U! I summon the true confessions! Completely agree with you on this, Kurt. Even a bad Spidey story was going to have one of his colorful villains in it, and a bad FF story would have some wild alien threat or some creature from another dimension, but too many Cap stories had generic bad guys that were just there as punching bags for Cap to fill pages between his pining for Agent 13 or lamenting Bucky's death. A big detriment for the Cap series early on was the lack of compelling villains beyond Red Skull. Between issues #100 and #150, Red Skull appeared in at least 30% of those stories, while Batroc, Doctor Faustus, and Madame Hydra only appeared in 14% of the issues combined; MODOK was in another 10%, and Baron von Strucker was in 6%. Beyond them, it was a lot of other characters' villains (Grey Gargoyle, Scorpion, Trapster, Living Laser, Swordsman, Mandarin) and a bunch of one-off "villain of the month" types, like biker gangs, rogue AIM or SHIELD scientists, etc. There was really no effort given to develop a rogue's gallery for Cap like there had been for Spider-Man, Daredevil, FF, etc., and as such, the series suffers because the reader becomes painfully aware that the one-offs and borrowed villains are only there to kill time in between Red Skull appearances.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on May 30, 2017 0:29:50 GMT -5
Stories like this are why I never got excited about Captain America s a kid (with the exception of the Simon & Kirby reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces). Lots of good art (Kirby, Steranko, Colan, Romita), but mostly dead-on-arrival plots. It took Steve Englehart to turn me on to Cap. Cei-U! I summon the true confessions! Completely agree with you on this, Kurt. Even a bad Spidey story was going to have one of his colorful villains in it, and a bad FF story would have some wild alien threat or some creature from another dimension, but too many Cap stories had generic bad guys that were just there as punching bags for Cap to fill pages between his pining for Agent 13 or lamenting Bucky's death. A big detriment for the Cap series early on was the lack of compelling villains beyond Red Skull. Between issues #100 and #150, Red Skull appeared in at least 30% of those stories, while Batroc, Doctor Faustus, and Madame Hydra only appeared in 14% of the issues combined; MODOK was in another 10%, and Baron von Strucker was in 6%. Beyond them, it was a lot of other characters' villains (Grey Gargoyle, Scorpion, Trapster, Living Laser, Swordsman, Mandarin) and a bunch of one-off "villain of the month" types, like biker gangs, rogue AIM or SHIELD scientists, etc. There was really no effort given to develop a rogue's gallery for Cap like there had been for Spider-Man, Daredevil, FF, etc., and as such, the series suffers because the reader becomes painfully aware that the one-offs and borrowed villains are only there to kill time in between Red Skull appearances. "but too many Cap stories had generic bad guys that were just there as punching bags for Cap to fill pages between his pining for Agent 13 or lamenting Bucky's death." Someone could say the same of Spider-Man. Between beating up the green and/or purple villain of the month, how often was Parker Peyton Place-ing himself over Gwen, Liz, Betty or Mary Jane? Those love/crush plots took up as much valuable development as any S-M villain, so in some ways, the villain (no matter how often they appeared) was a "B" story, rather than the focus of this crimefighter's comic. How often were pages consumed by his worry over Aunt May's Life Threatening Illness / Bad Reaction to Medicine / Foot Moving Ever So Close to Kicking T hat Bucket? Even when the villains were a mover of the plot (e.g., Green Goblin's involvement with Gwen's death), the villain's ultimate effect took a back seat to Parker's seemingly neverending mourning--later exploited by flashbacks, and ultimately the clone saga, where the villain behind it all (Prof. Warren/The Jackal) took a back seat to the same kind of page filling you believe are in the Cap comics. By the way, i'm not saying the S-M stories were bad (longtime fan), but just making a parallel--perhaps not to the same degree, but its there. I've never believed every character must have some sizable number of recurring villains--to me, that feels as repetitious as the expectation of Popeye always facing Bluto/Brutus, or Bugs Bunny always running into Elmer Fudd or Yosemite Sam. I don't need to see Joker & Penguin more than others. Tiresome, and actually makes the hero seem like he's isolated to just a few in a revolving door of enemies. Not very expansive. For me, Cap being both superhero and quasi-espionage agent made him a unique figure in comics, as it opened his range of enemies to not just the garden-variety costumed villain, but to characters out of the range of other heroes (I.O.W., they would not necessarily be a good fit). Cap's foes--whether it was Hydra, A.I.M., the Secret Empire, National Force or individuals--were tied to world domination in a more earthy, arguably believable way than the same old flashy gang showing up month after month to collect that I-Just-Had-My-Butt-Kicked-By-Thor check. Then, there's his past, or related events/characters: being a man out of time both socially & politically, the CA title had the benefit of being more than just a superhero punch-fest, but broadening the Marvel landscape with Cap as the interesting bridge between the Golden and Silver-forward age (and like Cap, many of his WW2 associates or foes had long reaching effects on the Marvel universe), not to mention his own crisis of ideology in a nation that did not represent what he dedicated his life to. So, Cap--at least from my POV--did not need to share the format used by other characters in order to succeed.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on May 30, 2017 16:02:51 GMT -5
Completely agree with you on this, Kurt. Even a bad Spidey story was going to have one of his colorful villains in it, and a bad FF story would have some wild alien threat or some creature from another dimension, but too many Cap stories had generic bad guys that were just there as punching bags for Cap to fill pages between his pining for Agent 13 or lamenting Bucky's death. A big detriment for the Cap series early on was the lack of compelling villains beyond Red Skull. Between issues #100 and #150, Red Skull appeared in at least 30% of those stories, while Batroc, Doctor Faustus, and Madame Hydra only appeared in 14% of the issues combined; MODOK was in another 10%, and Baron von Strucker was in 6%. Beyond them, it was a lot of other characters' villains (Grey Gargoyle, Scorpion, Trapster, Living Laser, Swordsman, Mandarin) and a bunch of one-off "villain of the month" types, like biker gangs, rogue AIM or SHIELD scientists, etc. There was really no effort given to develop a rogue's gallery for Cap like there had been for Spider-Man, Daredevil, FF, etc., and as such, the series suffers because the reader becomes painfully aware that the one-offs and borrowed villains are only there to kill time in between Red Skull appearances. "but too many Cap stories had generic bad guys that were just there as punching bags for Cap to fill pages between his pining for Agent 13 or lamenting Bucky's death." Someone could say the same of Spider-Man. Between beating up the green and/or purple villain of the month, how often was Parker Peyton Place-ing himself over Gwen, Liz, Betty or Mary Jane? Those love/crush plots took up as much valuable development as any S-M villain, so in some ways, the villain (no matter how often they appeared) was a "B" story, rather than the focus of this crimefighter's comic. How often were pages consumed by his worry over Aunt May's Life Threatening Illness / Bad Reaction to Medicine / Foot Moving Ever So Close to Kicking T hat Bucket? Even when the villains were a mover of the plot (e.g., Green Goblin's involvement with Gwen's death), the villain's ultimate effect took a back seat to Parker's seemingly neverending mourning--later exploited by flashbacks, and ultimately the clone saga, where the villain behind it all (Prof. Warren/The Jackal) took a back seat to the same kind of page filling you believe are in the Cap comics. By the way, i'm not saying the S-M stories were bad (longtime fan), but just making a parallel--perhaps not to the same degree, but its there. I've never believed every character must have some sizable number of recurring villains--to me, that feels as repetitious as the expectation of Popeye always facing Bluto/Brutus, or Bugs Bunny always running into Elmer Fudd or Yosemite Sam. I don't need to see Joker & Penguin more than others. Tiresome, and actually makes the hero seem like he's isolated to just a few in a revolving door of enemies. Not very expansive. For me, Cap being both superhero and quasi-espionage agent made him a unique figure in comics, as it opened his range of enemies to not just the garden-variety costumed villain, but to characters out of the range of other heroes (I.O.W., they would not necessarily be a good fit). Cap's foes--whether it was Hydra, A.I.M., the Secret Empire, National Force or individuals--were tied to world domination in a more earthy, arguably believable way than the same old flashy gang showing up month after month to collect that I-Just-Had-My-Butt-Kicked-By-Thor check. Then, there's his past, or related events/characters: being a man out of time both socially & politically, the CA title had the benefit of being more than just a superhero punch-fest, but broadening the Marvel landscape with Cap as the interesting bridge between the Golden and Silver-forward age (and like Cap, many of his WW2 associates or foes had long reaching effects on the Marvel universe), not to mention his own crisis of ideology in a nation that did not represent what he dedicated his life to. So, Cap--at least from my POV--did not need to share the format used by other characters in order to succeed. I see your point about the repetition factor being tiresome, but they introduced Doctor Faustus in issue #107 and he doesn't appear again until #161 (excluding the album issue #112), which is over 4 years. Batroc appeared a bit more frequently, only having one year between first and second appearances (ToS #76 to ToS #85), then two years (Cap #105), two more years (Cap #'s 130 and 132), then 18 months (Cap #'s 149 and 150), although he then went over eight years until his next appearance in Captain America (#251). Madame Hydra went six and a half years between appearances (#113 to #180). It wasn't as though these characters, outside of maybe Batroc, were in heavy rotation. I'm not necessarily arguing that he needed a costumed, flashy rogue's gallery like Spidey, Batman, or The Flash, because your point about him being positioned well to do the soldier stuff as well as the espionage stuff is spot on. However, generic bad guys like the ones in ToS #'s 95 and 96 are just as bad as overplayed costumed villains, because there is no chance, outside of Roy Thomas getting a yearning to bring back Gunner Gates for some oddball continuity reason, these characters are ever going to be seen again. Heroes are only as good as their villains, and some random gunrunner or marksman with a contract doesn't leave an impression on the reader. You don't want to see them again, because there is no draw to their existence. They're space-fillers, nothing more, so maybe a little more Batroc wouldn't be a bad thing if the alternative is a personality-lacking, non-defining characteristic-having mobster.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2017 9:20:56 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #97"And So It Begins!' Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Joe Sinnott (inks) Cover Date: January 1968 SynopsisThe scene opens with Cap being tossed aside by an explosion. He remarks that the rooftop he's on has been mined as he hurtles over the edge, but he manages to hook his foot on the moulding and hangs on instead of falling to his doom on the street below. Two goons from The Syndicate stand above him, and while one wants to throw grenades at Cap and be done with it, the other, named Mauler, hoists Cap up by his ankles and administer a beating despite the other man's warnings. Cap head-butts Mauler, then attacks the other man and stuffs him in a chimney headfirst before knocking down Mauler with one punch to the stomach, after which Cap thinks that he'll never be able to let his guard down, which is the price he pays for who he is. Shifting quickly, Black Panther races through the Wakandan jungle to a remote sentry outpost that has gone silent. Upon arrival, he finds his men incapacitated and the equipment wrecked. Sensing others nearby, he crashes through the underbrush, finding three men who attack and subdue the Panther after a brief struggle. Back in New York City, Cap looks through a book of mug shots, confirming that the men who attacked him did indeed work for The Syndicate. The cops take him home, after he's been checked out by a doctor at the station, and as Steve lies down to rest, his thoughts drift to Agent Thirteen... ...which segues to her unrevealed whereabouts. She says that she tried calling Cap but got no answer, and now she can only think of her mission. Disguising herself as Irma Kruhl, the world's most deadly female spy, she reveals the real Irma Kruhl is bound and gagged in the closet, awaiting pick-up by SHIELD. Agent Thirteen then leaves to an unknown rendezvous point. Once more in NYC, Steve is roused by a noise on his roof, and fearing another attack, he changes into his uniform and scales the side of the building, only to find an odd-looking aircraft sitting there. He enters it and is immediately hailed by Black Panther, who quickly explains the situation in Wakanda, telling Cap that is it somehow tied to him. The craft, he explains, glides on "pre-programmed magnetic waves", so all Cap needs to do is activate the starting device and, flying at "mach speed", will reach Wakanda in 53 minutes. Cap ponders it for a moment, wondering if it is a trap, but he dismisses that thought due to Black Panther's involvement, then presses the button to take off toward whatever awaits in Wakanda. My ThoughtsSo, we have a mined rooftop in NYC? Glad to know that The Syndicate knows exactly where Cap will be and when, or else some poor schmuck sneaking up to the roof to catch a smoke might have blown himself up. Cap has to have the most-talented feet on the planet. For the second issue in a row, he manages to stop himself from a painful, splattering death by snagging his foot on something as he goes over the edge of a building. Black Panther is blasted by the soldiers he encounters in the jungle, but nothing more is made of that, as he shows up just fine a few pages later. Big plot hole here, guys. Nice that Agent Thirteen is a dead ringer for Irma Kruhl, in that all she has to do is pull her hair back, draw on some new eyebrows, and slap on a pair of glasses to be indistiguishable from the world's most deadly female spy (although I think Ms. Romanov might have an argument with that assertion). Cap climbs up the side of the building because he hears a noise on the roof? Nothing like totally overreacting and putting himself in greater danger to investigate what could be just a really fat pigeon. Also, how did Black Panther know exactly where Cap lived? "Magnetic Waves". Drink! Science fun time "Mach speed" is 1,235 km/hour. Wakanda has been established as being north of Tanzania, in the Somalia/Ethopia/Kenya region of Africa, and New York City is 11,207 km from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. For Black Panther's craft to make it from NYC to Wakanda in 53 minutes, it would have to travel at Mach 9.1, which is in the upper hypersonic range. As of 2016, the fastest a manned craft has ever traveled is the X-15, which hit Mach 6.7, so in 1967, Black Panther has more advanced technology than anyone on the planet has ever developed. Little bit of an overreach here, Stan. My Grade: B+After a couple of boring issues, it looks like Stan and Jack have raised their game with this issue. It starts off a little shaky, with more Syndicate nonsense and too many coincidences, but once Black Panther is introduced to the story, things start to move pretty well, and there are some storylines set up for the next issue.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jun 3, 2017 10:15:20 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #97"And So It Begins!' Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Joe Sinnott (inks) Cover Date: January 1968 My ThoughtsSo, we have a mined rooftop in NYC? Glad to know that The Syndicate knows exactly where Cap will be and when, or else some poor schmuck sneaking up to the roof to catch a smoke might have blown himself up. Cap has to have the most-talented feet on the planet. For the second issue in a row, he manages to stop himself from a painful, splattering death by snagging his foot on something as he goes over the edge of a building. Black Panther is blasted by the soldiers he encounters in the jungle, but nothing more is made of that, as he shows up just fine a few pages later. Big plot hole here, guys. Nice that Agent Thirteen is a dead ringer for Irma Kruhl, in that all she has to do is pull her hair back, draw on some new eyebrows, and slap on a pair of glasses to be indistiguishable from the world's most deadly female spy (although I think Ms. Romanov might have an argument with that assertion). Cap climbs up the side of the building because he hears a noise on the roof? Nothing like totally overreacting and putting himself in greater danger to investigate what could be just a really fat pigeon. Also, how did Black Panther know exactly where Cap lived? "Magnetic Waves". Drink! Science fun time "Mach speed" is 1,235 km/hour. Wakanda has been established as being north of Tanzania, in the Somalia/Ethopia/Kenya region of Africa, and New York City is 11,207 km from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. For Black Panther's craft to make it from NYC to Wakanda in 53 minutes, it would have to travel at Mach 9.1, which is in the upper hypersonic range. As of 2016, the fastest a manned craft has ever traveled is the X-15, which hit Mach 6.7, so in 1967, Black Panther has more advanced technology than anyone on the planet has ever developed. Little bit of an overreach here, Stan. My Grade: B+After a couple of boring issues, it looks like Stan and Jack have raised their game with this issue. It starts off a little shaky, with more Syndicate nonsense and too many coincidences, but once Black Panther is introduced to the story, things start to move pretty well, and there are some storylines set up for the next issue. The mined rooftop: In real life, the Syndicate (AKA the Mafia) never cared about collateral damage when setting explosives. No precision bombing for them, so if innocent people got in the way and/or died, they just...died. Wouldn't one assume Black Panther--though far removed from America--had known of Cap's whereabouts through his own intelligence sources? That sort of mirrors the distant, yet knowing way he's portrayed in Captain America: Civil War. Black Panther's craft: This is the same comic universe where the blast from a bomb using gamma radiation transforms a man into a giant, green powerhouse, Doctor Doom has a working, accurate time machine(!), and is fine with just about anything you might find in Reed Richards' lab. All things considered, a vehicle traveling at Mach 9.1--beyond the capabilities of a craft in the 21st century--should not raise eyebrows.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2017 10:30:11 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #97"And So It Begins!' Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Joe Sinnott (inks) Cover Date: January 1968 My ThoughtsSo, we have a mined rooftop in NYC? Glad to know that The Syndicate knows exactly where Cap will be and when, or else some poor schmuck sneaking up to the roof to catch a smoke might have blown himself up. Cap has to have the most-talented feet on the planet. For the second issue in a row, he manages to stop himself from a painful, splattering death by snagging his foot on something as he goes over the edge of a building. Black Panther is blasted by the soldiers he encounters in the jungle, but nothing more is made of that, as he shows up just fine a few pages later. Big plot hole here, guys. Nice that Agent Thirteen is a dead ringer for Irma Kruhl, in that all she has to do is pull her hair back, draw on some new eyebrows, and slap on a pair of glasses to be indistiguishable from the world's most deadly female spy (although I think Ms. Romanov might have an argument with that assertion). Cap climbs up the side of the building because he hears a noise on the roof? Nothing like totally overreacting and putting himself in greater danger to investigate what could be just a really fat pigeon. Also, how did Black Panther know exactly where Cap lived? "Magnetic Waves". Drink! Science fun time "Mach speed" is 1,235 km/hour. Wakanda has been established as being north of Tanzania, in the Somalia/Ethopia/Kenya region of Africa, and New York City is 11,207 km from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. For Black Panther's craft to make it from NYC to Wakanda in 53 minutes, it would have to travel at Mach 9.1, which is in the upper hypersonic range. As of 2016, the fastest a manned craft has ever traveled is the X-15, which hit Mach 6.7, so in 1967, Black Panther has more advanced technology than anyone on the planet has ever developed. Little bit of an overreach here, Stan. My Grade: B+After a couple of boring issues, it looks like Stan and Jack have raised their game with this issue. It starts off a little shaky, with more Syndicate nonsense and too many coincidences, but once Black Panther is introduced to the story, things start to move pretty well, and there are some storylines set up for the next issue. The minded rooftop: In real life, the Syndicate (AKA the Mafia) never cared about collateral damage when setting explosives. No precision bombing for them, so if innocent people got in the way and/or died, they just...died. Wouldn't one assume Black Panther--though far removed from America--had known of Cap's whereabouts through his own intelligence sources? That sort of mirrors the distant, yet knowing way he's portrayed in Captain America: Civil War. Black Panther's craft: This is the same comic universe where the blast from a bomb using gamma radiation transforms a man into a giant, green powerhouse, Doctor Doom has a working, accurate time machine(!), and is fine with just about anything you might find in Reed Richards' lab. All things considered, a vehicle traveling at Mach 9.1--beyond the capabilities of a craft in the 21st century--should not raise eyebrows. The mined rooftop bothers me because of all of the rooftops in NYC, The Syndicate picked one that Cap somehow wound up on before anyone else did. Sure, I get that they don't care about collateral damage, but it's like playing the lottery. Yeah, you have a chance, but the odds are astronomical that you'll pick the right combination of numbers to win. As for the Black Panther's craft, my complaint is that while I will begrudgingly accept Doom's time machine or the crap Reed (or Stark, for that matter) whips up in their labs, they've at least been established as being, if not the smartest, at least among the smartest people in the MU. Who exactly developed this technology for Black Panther that is able to travel Mach 9? We're to understand that Wakanda is advanced, but giving them that level of tech without an explanation is sloppy. Stan could just have easily written "in a few hours" and I probably wouldn't have taken any issue, but he was so specific about 53 minutes.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 13, 2017 20:31:15 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #98"The Claws Of The Panther!" Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Joe Sinnott (inks) Cover Date: February 1968 SynopsisCap soars across the sky in Black Panther's aircraft, and as he does, a ray from space streaks past him, striking and melting a mountain below. The craft begins to descend and Cap fears it is going to crash, but it gracefully lands in a hidden submerged landing field in the middle of the jungle. Cap exits the vehicle and is met by Black Panther and some of his men, who immediately attack Cap; he dispatches a couple of them with a kick, then faces off against the Wakandan ruler himself. They fight to a stalemate, at which point Black Panther tells Cap it was all just a test to see if Cap was the genuine article. The scene shifts to a group of scientist-looking guys who are being berated by an unknown individual. He is angry that they were unable to shoot Cap down, at which point they beg for mercy, knowing the penalty for failure; they present their argument and their assailant relents, telling them they have one more chance to kill both Captain America and Black Panther. Grabbing a communicator, they contact a group of soldiers (resembling those that Black Panther fought last issue at his abandoned outpost), ordering the soldiers to kill the heroes. Back at Black Panther's headquarters, he explains where the ray Cap saw came from and that Cap will soon meet their enemy, whose identity Cap will not believe. Black Panther also explains how the ray machine works, telling Cap of its destructive capabilities; Cap asks if he's tried to take it down, to which Black Panther replies that he has, but that it is impossible to do with a direct attack, as only stealth, speed and cunning will allow them to prevail. Racing across the jungle behind Black Panther, Cap starts to think of his own home, if he will ever see it again, and if he will ever find love, especially with the girl that he cannot forget. They come to a clearing and are attacked by the soldiers, and although they fight valiantly, taking down many of their foes, they are eventually shot with stun bolts and incapacitated. Elsewhere in the jungle, Agent Thirteen, still disguised as Irma Kruhl, meets with another group of similar-looking soldiers. They attack her, but she dispatches them easily, instructing them to take her to their leader. Cap and Black Panther finally come to and try to escape, but they fall into a lion pit trap, becoming captured yet again. Staring up, they are confronted by their enemy, a man Cap has long thought dead, the villain named...Baron Zemo. My ThoughtsFirst off, this is a great cover. It's simple, yet dynamic, and although it is a little misleading, if I'd been a kid seeing this in the spinner rack in November 1967, I'd have grabbed this in a heartbeat. The Solar Ray missed Cap's ship by "inches", then strikes and melts a mountain!?!? How did that kind of heat not fry Cap to a crisp if it were that close to him? Tying into the cover, you gotta love the old "we're both heroes, but we need to fight" set-up, which makes more sense than, you know, just getting Cap to produce his Avengers ID card or something like that. I love the logic of Zemo's scientists, who argue that it would take Zemo too long to train their replacements, so he's better off letting them live to try again. It's really creative writing on Stan's part. Black Panther seems to know an AWFUL lot about Zemo's orbiting death ray. Maybe someone from SHIELD should follow up with him after this is all over to find out how he's such an expert on it. Solar Heat Projector, using a mirror to catch the rays of the sun, store them, and fire them at a later time as part of the weapon? Not how a mirror works. Running through unfamiliar territory as he follows Black Panther, nice that Cap has his mind on the important stuff, like if he's ever going to find love with Agent Thirteen. Way to keep your head in the game, Super Soldier! I did like the swinging over the crocodile in the river panel, though; it was a cute touch. Yet again, Agent Thirteen may be the only woman that Stan and Jack know how to treat as competent. She punches out one of Zemo's soldiers, kicks down another, and gasses the third. When they come to, she's the one giving orders, not being dragged off as a hostage. Thank goodness they went with Baron Zemo here as the mystery reveal. It hasn't been long enough since we last saw Red Skull to make any kind of impact from the surprise, so kudos to Stan and Jack for going out on a limb here and bringing in someone unexpected. My Grade: BThis is a pretty good story, but there are some goofy elements (the BP/Cap fight for no reason, Cap's mid-jungle daydreaming) that are just enough to drop this a partial grade from last issue. I like that last issue started to set this story up and this issue continued those threads, but resolution is not imminent, which is much better than boring one-and-dones with Gunner Gates and The Sniper.
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 13, 2017 22:07:35 GMT -5
As for the Black Panther's craft, my complaint is that while I will begrudgingly accept Doom's time machine or the crap Reed (or Stark, for that matter) whips up in their labs, they've at least been established as being, if not the smartest, at least among the smartest people in the MU. Who exactly developed this technology for Black Panther that is able to travel Mach 9? We're to understand that Wakanda is advanced, but giving them that level of tech without an explanation is sloppy. Stan could just have easily written "in a few hours" and I probably wouldn't have taken any issue, but he was so specific about 53 minutes. But it's completely consistent with Panther's first appearance in FF # 52 - The craft here wasn't particularly different from the one that was sent to the Fantastic Four I know this was completely forgotten by later writers, but in his original appearances the Panther was right around Mr. Fantastic technological-genius wise. Honestly, my major complaint about this storyline is that Stan and Jack mostly forgot that and used T'Challa as a generic Tarzan stand-in rather than the guy who built the organic techno-jungle with vibranium-derived technology that nobody on earth has.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jun 14, 2017 14:07:08 GMT -5
Yet again, Agent Thirteen may be the only woman that Stan and Jack know how to treat as competent. She punches out one of Zemo's soldiers, kicks down another, and gasses the third. When they come to, she's the one giving orders, not being dragged off as a hostage. I'd often thought that the Black Widow was the only competent female Marvel superhero of the 60's, but yeah, Agent Thirteen is pretty good, too.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 25, 2017 17:32:16 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #99"The Man Who Lived Twice!" Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Syd Shores (inks) Cover Date: March 1968 SynopsisWhen last we left our heroes (Captain America and Black Panther), they were caught in a lion pit trap, with Baron Zemo, back from the dead, standing at the edge of the hole. As this issue opens, Zemo's soldiers are dropping a rope into the pit to lift Cap and Black Panther out, all the while keeping their guns fixed on their captives. Zemo begins to monologue, explaining that while Captain America may have stopped him before, he will triumph now and Cap will die! Cap breaks free of his captors and starts to fight, while Black Panther has done with same with his guards, but after they manage to dispatch most of Zemo's men, they are stopped dead in their tracks when they are each hit with a "hypno-light missile", which, when exploded, emits a light so bright, it causes a vertigo-like sensation, first for Black Panther and then for Cap. At another location, Agent Thirteen, continuing her undercover role as Irma Kruhl, is lead by Zemo's men to a secure underground bunker. The solar ray is activated and it fires again, cutting through the Wakandan jungle and leaving mass devastation in its wake. Within that same bunker, Zemo sits triumphant, Cap and Black Panther prone at his feet. Cap rises and attempts to hit Zemo, but he is still affected by the effects of the hypno-light missile, so his punch is unable to connect with Zemo; in return, Zemo punches Cap down, then knocks down a still-weakened Black Panther for good measure. Zemo addresses them, telling them he has use for hirelings such as themselves; Black Panther gets riled up at that thought, but Cap tells him to calm down so they can stall a little longer to let the effects of the hypno-light missile wear off. Zemo continues, explaining his plan to use the orbiting solar ray to become master of all mankind, as he can destroy any nation that defies him within seconds. He also tells them that he will soon have a list of all U.S. nuclear bases, courtesy of Irma Kruhl, who has been spotted nearby. Cap and Black Panther rush to attack once again but are dogpiled by Zemo's men just as "Irma Kruhl" is brought into the room. To prove her loyalty to him, Zemo hands her a gun and orders her to kill the heroes, leaving Agent Thirteen with the choice to kill the man he loves or to blow her cover and risk failing her mission, which would doom the entire world... My Thoughts"And now, the end is near, and so we face the final curtain..." There is obviously huge historic significance to this issue of Tales of Suspense, as it would be the last one published so that Captain America and Iron Man could both be spun off into their own solo books (with Cap's book picking up the numbering of ToS, and Iron Man, after one issue of Iron Man and Sub-Mariner, would begin his own series with a fresh #1 issue). Unfortunately, while this is a historic issue, it isn't particularly engaging, as it is mostly a string of action sequences bundled around Zemo's exposition of his plans. There's very little, if any, character development, and it is left with a cliffhanger (albeit a very compelling one) that is designed to have folks pick up Captain America #100 and finish the story. The "hypno-light missile" works on some levels, but fails on others. The idea of using bright lights to disorient is plausible, but why it would prohibit Cap from being able to strike Zemo later, even if Cap is still suffering some effect from the missile, is unknown. As well, Zemo's man shoots both Black Panther and Cap with a missile, fired at a high rate of speed from a relatively short distance, yet they suffer no other physical damage except for being disoriented and weakened? Maybe it explodes before it hits them, but how does that work? Does it detonate two seconds after firing, but what about a target farther away? All in all, it's not a bad idea, but there are some huge gaps in the execution. It also isn't explained why Zemo is using his solar ray, which appears to be fully operational, to cut through virgin, uninhabited land in Wakanda. First and foremost, Zemo has set up a base there, so why would he risk damage to his operations and men by constantly ripping apart the very land that they are inhabiting? It also isn't explained why Zemo set up shop in Wakanda in the first place, as though he couldn't find any other supervillain hideout in the entire rest of the world except for one remote African nation that happens to be protected by Black Panther. My Grade: CI wanted to grade this higher, but I couldn't. It's nothing more than a stepping stone between the end of ToS and the start of Cap's solo series, and while the action scenes are competent enough, there is a lot of exposition from Zemo laying out his master plans and no real development of the story through natural progression.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jul 9, 2017 17:47:30 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #99"The Man Who Lived Twice!" Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Syd Shores (inks) Cover Date: March 1968 My Thoughts"And now, the end is near, and so we face the final curtain..." There is obviously huge historic significance to this issue of Tales of Suspense, as it would be the last one published so that Captain America and Iron Man could both be spun off into their own solo books (with Cap's book picking up the numbering of ToS, and Iron Man, after one issue of Iron Man and Sub-Mariner, would begin his own series with a fresh #1 issue). Occasionally, some fans wondered why Cap was granted the continued numbering from Tales of Suspense instead of Iron Man, but without looking into an official explanation from the period, I would guess it was due to Cap's soaring popularity, which at the time, was arguably second only to Spider-Man. Answer: superheroes ain't goin' nowhere! So, we can assume the missile detonated just far enough away not to be lethal. Even Zemo's henchmen can get it wrong sometimes. Vibranium end game? Imagine the weapons he could make with that--and as a bookend to his hatred of Cap, using a weapon made from the same material as Cap's shield. Being the stepping stone was more important, considering how the second solo Captain America title would launch. Some good and some great storylines to look forward to.
|
|