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Post by badwolf on Apr 25, 2018 10:07:53 GMT -5
Is this the only series where Don Glut was a fairly regular writer? I've seen his name in SF circles, but never thought of him as a comic book writer, especially on superheroes. Late to the game; but, what the hell? Glut wrote the tail end of Invaders and created Traag and the Sky Gods, at Gold Key, was a key writer on Dagar and The Occult Files of Dr Spektor; and, he was the adaptor of the Empire Strikes Back, for the novelization of the film script. Great adventure and pulp writer; not bad with superheroes (better with more human characters). He also contributed to B&W horror magazines like Vampirella, Creepy, Eerie, and now The Creeps. I remember reading his ESB novelization as a kid. I had a nice illustrated edition.
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Post by bdk91939 on Apr 25, 2018 10:56:23 GMT -5
Late to the game; but, what the hell? Glut wrote the tail end of Invaders and created Traag and the Sky Gods, at Gold Key, was a key writer on Dagar and The Occult Files of Dr Spektor; and, he was the adaptor of the Empire Strikes Back, for the novelization of the film script. Great adventure and pulp writer; not bad with superheroes (better with more human characters). He also contributed to B&W horror magazines like Vampirella, Creepy, Eerie, and now The Creeps. I remember reading his ESB novelization as a kid. I had a nice illustrated edition. I remember as a kid watching He-Man and G.I. Joe cartoons and would see his name in the end credits after the show is finished. And looking up Don Glut he was very busy screenwriting for a lot of those animated series.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Apr 25, 2018 12:40:10 GMT -5
I also thought it was odd to bother giving Giant-Man armor, but I suppose going up against both Hulk and Namor one needs all the power boost one can get. I always thought the 'Armored Avengers' ought to have been revealed to be on the Transformers earth, or something.
I loved the story for the most part, being a fan of the Invaders and considering this their valid final case, but the ending just irked me. I thought Spirit of 76 was the perfect replacement, and killing him off simply to replace him with a character who was essentially the same, seemed to have no benefit (and the confusion in continuity persists to this day).
I dunno ... to a degree I see the point of that but with all the stories ending badly it struck me as a bit strainednd repetitive.
This is totally one of my favorite books of the series, although as the team broke up at the end (which I thought was a shame) I didn't understand why they bothered to not have it be in mainstream continuity anyway. It's too bad this book came out before the Comet was introduced in Nova.
Oh my god, I hated this book. They could have let Claremont show us his original plan for the series, but I feel this tale completely trashed all the characters involved (particularly Jean and Xavier), and read more like a hack job put together at Shooter's direction to "prove" he made the right editorial decision. [/quote]
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Post by sabongero on Apr 25, 2018 22:19:19 GMT -5
mikelmidnight thanks for sharing your opinions on some of the issues of What If? comic books. I'm curious about why you think Jim Shooter proved he made the right editorial decision in regards to the X-Men and Chris Claremont?
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Post by mikelmidnight on Apr 26, 2018 12:27:14 GMT -5
I don't know for a fact that Shooter had anything to do with the writing of this story. I do know that Shooter's decision was contentious, and Claremont as well as many fans objected to it. When I read this story I felt that the characterization of the characters was so off-base, it read as if it had been written under Shooter's direction, to justify his decision to kill off Jean. "See, if she had remained alive this is what would have happened, so stop your griping."
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Post by sabongero on Apr 26, 2018 14:12:06 GMT -5
I don't know for a fact that Shooter had anything to do with the writing of this story. I do know that Shooter's decision was contentious, and Claremont as well as many fans objected to it. When I read this story I felt that the characterization of the characters was so off-base, it read as if it had been written under Shooter's direction, to justify his decision to kill off Jean. "See, if she had remained alive this is what would have happened, so stop your griping." I think the problem they had was that when the Phoenix consumed that star in the Shi'Ar Empire and was responsible for billions of death from an orbiting inhabited planet, there was no turning back at that point in time to justify Phoenix/Jean Grey can be redempted, because of the magnitude of the genocide. Until of course I read somewhere that a young Kurt Busiek wrote a letter and they went with that where Jean Grey's comatose body was a separate entity from the Phoenix and was brought back in the MCU in the pages of Avengers and Fantastic Four, just before they launched X-Factor #1... then you have the problem of character assassination of Scott Summers leaving his wife. Convoluted...
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Post by rberman on Apr 26, 2018 14:30:47 GMT -5
I don't know for a fact that Shooter had anything to do with the writing of this story. I do know that Shooter's decision was contentious, and Claremont as well as many fans objected to it. When I read this story I felt that the characterization of the characters was so off-base, it read as if it had been written under Shooter's direction, to justify his decision to kill off Jean. "See, if she had remained alive this is what would have happened, so stop your griping." I think the problem they had was that when the Phoenix consumed that star in the Shi'Ar Empire and was responsible for billions of death from an orbiting inhabited planet, there was no turning back at that point in time to justify Phoenix/Jean Grey can be redempted, because of the magnitude of the genocide. Claremont and Byrne originally planned for the Shi'ar to turn off Jean's powers and release her back to live as a civilian on Earth. Shooter said that there needed to be a more significant penalty for justice to be served. He did not specify what that penalty ought to be. Claremont and Byrne tossed around the idea of Jean going to a Shi'ar prison planet for her crimes. But they realized the X-Men would never tolerate that, and the thought of "Let's go rescue Jean" would hang over all X-Men stories for years to come. So Claremont and Byrne (not Shooter) proposed killing Jean, probably not thinking that Shooter would allow one of Marvel's founding heroes to be killed. But he said OK, and the rest was history, until it was retconned to no longer be history just a few years later.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 26, 2018 14:37:03 GMT -5
When I read this story I felt that the characterization of the characters was so off-base That's pretty typical of What If...?
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 26, 2018 17:30:25 GMT -5
My personal favorites... Decent little tie-in to The Invaders, which filled some continuity gaps, though I think we got too many characters involved as Cap stand-ins. Rescuing Kennedy smacked a little too much of knowledge after the fact, vs actual importance in the period. Interesting alternate take on Master of Kung Fu, left out of the trades , due to the licensing issue. First issue I ever owned. Really enjoyed the Spider Woman story and the Captain Marvel one. Ghost Rider was more just "okay. It had more impact at the time, before Marvel reversed course and piddled on the power of the ending of the Dark Phoenix Saga. Kind of a "left field" premise; but, it was actually pretty cool and it was Miller, while he was hot. Fairly minor stories; but, I really enjoyed the Dazzler story. I had bought the issues where she came up against Terrax and they were about the only ones that I thought did something interesting with Dazzler. This took that and ran with it. It was kind of intriguing to see how she affected Galactus, in ways his other heralds hadn't. Very creative piece. The Iron Man one was less effective, though had a nice Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court feel to it (which it essentially ripped off). There's some really funny stuff in here, especially things like Alpha Flight speaking like Bob & Doug McKenzie, Hulk & She-Hulk as Dagwood & Blondie and Lucy & Ricky Ricardo, heroes and villains fighting in blizzards and coal mines, and a few other gems. There are also a lot of groaners; but, amusing groaners. Another good alternate idea, lessened by later continuity reversals (though, to be fair, Miller did that one, himself). The Wasp story is less effective; but, does play around with an interesting idea, of Jan turning into a more vengeful character, after Hank's death. Nice idea, somewhat shaky execution. Another Conan in modern times, really cool cover; somewhat predictable story. I liked the premise on this one, more than the execution. Dave Gibbons did a better job with the idea later, with a United States under the control of the Red Skull.
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Post by sabongero on Apr 27, 2018 5:14:28 GMT -5
When I read this story I felt that the characterization of the characters was so off-base That's pretty typical of What If...?What you get in these tales are Marvel characters OOC as compared to their regular MCU counterparts that we are familiar with. That's their purpose. After all, life altering situations (What If...?) occurring can change anyone's path going to a different direction and changing everything about that person. Imagine you or anyone of us, changing an important life-changing decision, and that particular stepping stone instead of the right direction that we took leading to our current lives and attitude, suddenly has the other stepping stone with the left direction... Imagine what our current lives and attitudes would be like?
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Post by sabongero on Apr 27, 2018 5:17:57 GMT -5
That's a good set of What If...? titles codystarbuck. That one with the watch was funny. It's like a stand-up comedy at times.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 27, 2018 9:28:32 GMT -5
That's pretty typical of What If...?What you get in these tales are Marvel characters OOC as compared to their regular MCU counterparts that we are familiar with. That's their purpose. After all, life altering situations (What If...?) occurring can change anyone's path going to a different direction and changing everything about that person. Imagine you or anyone of us, changing an important life-changing decision, and that particular stepping stone instead of the right direction that we took leading to our current lives and attitude, suddenly has the other stepping stone with the left direction... Imagine what our current lives and attitudes would be like? I see what you are saying, but I think they still need to retain some of the character we know, otherwise they aren't the same characters and what's the point. I think some of the mis-characterization comes from writers who aren't used to those characters. That's why I think some of the best ones are the Miller Daredevil stories, or the Byrne FF one. All that said, I don't think the Phoenix issue is one of those cases. They seemed fine to me.
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Post by sabongero on Apr 27, 2018 10:36:02 GMT -5
What you get in these tales are Marvel characters OOC as compared to their regular MCU counterparts that we are familiar with. That's their purpose. After all, life altering situations (What If...?) occurring can change anyone's path going to a different direction and changing everything about that person. Imagine you or anyone of us, changing an important life-changing decision, and that particular stepping stone instead of the right direction that we took leading to our current lives and attitude, suddenly has the other stepping stone with the left direction... Imagine what our current lives and attitudes would be like? I see what you are saying, but I think they still need to retain some of the character we know, otherwise they aren't the same characters and what's the point. I think some of the mis-characterization comes from writers who aren't used to those characters. That's why I think some of the best ones are the Miller Daredevil stories, or the Byrne FF one. All that said, I don't think the Phoenix issue is one of those cases. They seemed fine to me. You hit it on the spot! Not just back then, even current stories. There are many writers that are not good at writing some characters, while they are tremendous in writing other characters. It's probably not knowing enough about those characters through research (reading comic books on those characters) or not enough exposure to those characters and their world.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Apr 30, 2018 12:43:21 GMT -5
Claremont and Byrne originally planned for the Shi'ar to turn off Jean's powers and release her back to live as a civilian on Earth. Shooter said that there needed to be a more significant penalty for justice to be served. He did not specify what that penalty ought to be. Claremont and Byrne tossed around the idea of Jean going to a Shi'ar prison planet for her crimes. But they realized the X-Men would never tolerate that, and the thought of "Let's go rescue Jean" would hang over all X-Men stories for years to come. So Claremont and Byrne (not Shooter) proposed killing Jean, probably not thinking that Shooter would allow one of Marvel's founding heroes to be killed. But he said OK, and the rest was history, until it was retconned to no longer be history just a few years later. I heard Claremont speak at a con in the 80s shortly after the decision had been made, and he seemed quite still in favor of the ensuing 'X-men rescuing Jean from the Shi'Ar' storyline and still unhappy about Shooter's dictate.
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 30, 2018 13:51:39 GMT -5
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