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Post by impulse on Oct 15, 2020 7:49:36 GMT -5
I'm torn on the issue in general. On the one hand, representation is absolutely important and helpful. On the other, it IS a movie about a ruler of Egypt from a non-African lineage. That is a key aspect of the person. Then again, in the modern age, it is somewhat tone deaf not to be aware of these sensitivities
Then again, I've seen a post of someone railing on Rami Malek I think it was being cast in an Egpytian role because he is too white. Dude is literally Egyptian...
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 15, 2020 9:51:58 GMT -5
Gal Gadot as Cleopatra is decried by a few misinformed souls as a case of Hollywood whitewashing. Well, it might arguably be "Prettywashing" since Gadot is far more beautiful than the images we have of Cleoptara... but despite not being the product of eight generations of Greek inbreeding, I'm fairly sure that Gadot's skin color is perfect for the historical ruler. And if we want to split hairs, Israel is located within the borders of Alexander's empire, of which Ptolemy I (her ancestor and founder of her line) was a general. So even culturally, this is no usurpation. Plus, she'd make a stunning queen of Egypt. (As stunning as Monica Bellucci? That remains to be seen!  ) There! I said it. Some movie studios are being forced to cast politically correct people for various roles. I don't have a problem with that but sometimes the demands get in the way of movies being made. I understand that Scarlett Johansen was set to star in a movie about a transexual woman but they wanted an actual transexual for the lead. It ended up scrapping the project altogether. Gadot has some star power that other actresses don't have and would have drawn more people to watch the movie. If they cast an unknown or lesser known actress , it might kill the box office. It's a business after all. And that's absolutely what some people don't get or are intentionally feigning ignorance when it comes to representation. It's no more the studio's responsibility to do so than it is Marvel to write more Warlock comics because I'm a fan. They do what brings in the profits. Also Monica Bellucci ..... Bram's Stoker's Dracula .....  |
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Post by berkley on Oct 15, 2020 10:32:19 GMT -5
Based on the little I've seen in clips and previews from the Wonder Woman movies, etc I don't like Gadot's casting because I just don't like her much on-screen. Cleopatra will be a tough role for anyone to pull off, as would any of these larger-than-life historical characters - and this is one of the biggest you can get in terms of the impact she's had on the western cultural imagination. Even in very good historical dramas like Rome, they missed the boat, IMO.
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Post by impulse on Oct 15, 2020 11:06:49 GMT -5
My only issue with her portrayal of Wonder Woman is she is way too "pretty" for the role. She looks like she has the body of a model, not a warrior.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 15, 2020 11:17:40 GMT -5
To add to my previous post ... I also think we tend to forget acting is a job first and foremost. Sure some actors actually like their jobs and excel at it. Many might just be good at acting and that's why they excel and have mansions in five different states and one overseas. Representation without qualification shouldn't be a thing. Even in non-artist jobs affirmative action isn't meant to help minorities replace people, but to place them in the job that fits their skill set. No manager is going to replace a white employee with 20 years experience in their field for a minority that is not qualified for that job. Affirmative action is there to help place minorities in roles that fit their skills and not be discriminated because of the color of their skin, gender, sexuality, etc. So why should that not be the case with casting for movies/shows as well?
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Post by impulse on Oct 15, 2020 12:03:38 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is seriously saying fire a long-term good white employee to arbitrarily replace them with a minority class person regardless of any context, qualification, etc. More like to use the current topic, see if you can find an actress of actual Greek descent or from the region and consider holding auditions there etc and you will get some points.
Maybe hold casting calls in Egypt, etc. If no one stands out, no worries. Then again, is that even safe to do during COVID?
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 15, 2020 13:13:24 GMT -5
Based on the little I've seen in clips and previews from the Wonder Woman movies, etc I don't like Gadot's casting because I just don't like her much on-screen. Cleopatra will be a tough role for anyone to pull off, as would any of these larger-than-life historical characters - and this is one of the biggest you can get in terms of the impact she's had on the western cultural imagination. Even in very good historical dramas like Rome, they missed the boat, IMO. I enjoyed the WW movie but it wasn't because I though Gadot was amazing in the role. The story and adventure was the best part of the film. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 15, 2020 13:52:51 GMT -5
Based on the little I've seen in clips and previews from the Wonder Woman movies, etc I don't like Gadot's casting because I just don't like her much on-screen. Cleopatra will be a tough role for anyone to pull off, as would any of these larger-than-life historical characters - and this is one of the biggest you can get in terms of the impact she's had on the western cultural imagination. Even in very good historical dramas like Rome, they missed the boat, IMO. I enjoyed the WW movie but it wasn't because I though Gadot was amazing in the role. The story and adventure was the best part of the film. I did like her very much, but I agree completely about the story and adventure. It captured the Raiders style that it needed (mythical battle scenes excepted, of course), but once off Paradise Island, it's up there with the first Mummy and Rocketeer, which also captured a lot of what Raiders got right. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 15, 2020 15:00:17 GMT -5
I enjoyed the WW movie but it wasn't because I though Gadot was amazing in the role. The story and adventure was the best part of the film. I did like her very much, but I agree completely about the story and adventure. It captured the Raiders style that it needed (mythical battle scenes excepted, of course), but once off Paradise Island, it's up there with the first Mummy and Rocketeer, which also captured a lot of what Raiders got right. To further my thought on the movie, I thought she didn't hurt the movie. But she lacked the star power that someone like Hugh Jackman brought to the X-men movies. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 15, 2020 15:07:26 GMT -5
My only issue with her portrayal of Wonder Woman is she is way too "pretty" for the role. She looks like she has the body of a model, not a warrior. Heh! In my opinion she has the body of a goddess, so everything's cool! Plus, she had the candour of George Perez's version of WW, which I really enjoyed back in the day (the only time I bought several issues in a row). |
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Post by impulse on Oct 15, 2020 15:31:29 GMT -5
My only issue with her portrayal of Wonder Woman is she is way too "pretty" for the role. She looks like she has the body of a model, not a warrior. Heh! In my opinion she has the body of a goddess, so everything's cool! Plus, she had the candour of George Perez's version of WW, which I really enjoyed back in the day (the only time I bought several issues in a row). Haha. Don't get me wrong, She is stunning and played the part well. She just didn't look like she had ever lifted anything heavy before. |
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Post by berkley on Oct 15, 2020 22:13:15 GMT -5
Heh! In my opinion she has the body of a goddess, so everything's cool! Plus, she had the candour of George Perez's version of WW, which I really enjoyed back in the day (the only time I bought several issues in a row). Haha. Don't get me wrong, She is stunning and played the part well. She just didn't look like she had ever lifted anything heavy before. I've said this before but I think they should do like the old days and look for athletes to cast for some of these parts that require physically impressive types to play them convincingly, just as back in the 1920s or 30s they got Johnny Weismuller to play Tarzan or Buster Crabbe to play Flash Gordon.
Gina Carano is about the only present-day actress I can think of along those lines, but I think someone like Serena Williams would look fantastic as a superheroine and I'm sure there are many other possibilities. Also, with today's technology, I think they could probably get around some problems - for example, if they wanted a gymnast to play an acrobatic type, they might be able to make them look appropriately taller than they are in real life (since gymnasts tend to be quite short).
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,221 
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Post by Confessor on Oct 16, 2020 0:02:31 GMT -5
A cat standing on your left testicle will wake you up in the night! (yep, the one standing over my shoulder, in my avatar photo) My wife complains when our cat walks over her breasts while she's laying in bed. It hurts! She's sure he does it just to annoy her.  |
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Post by berkley on Oct 16, 2020 0:31:53 GMT -5
Some movie studios are being forced to cast politically correct people for various roles. I don't have a problem with that but sometimes the demands get in the way of movies being made. I understand that Scarlett Johansen was set to star in a movie about a transexual woman but they wanted an actual transexual for the lead. It ended up scrapping the project altogether. Gadot has some star power that other actresses don't have and would have drawn more people to watch the movie. If they cast an unknown or lesser known actress , it might kill the box office. It's a business after all. And that's absolutely what some people don't get or are intentionally feigning ignorance when it comes to representation. It's no more the studio's responsibility to do so than it is Marvel to write more Warlock comics because I'm a fan. They do what brings in the profits. Also Monica Bellucci ..... Bram's Stoker's Dracula ..... Who's talking about responsibility? I'm talking about what I'd like to see, not what's commercially optimal. Besides, Gadot herself was a relative unknown when she was first cast as WW, so that argument isn't necessarily decisive.
Imagine if every new novel, in order to be published, had to contain some already established fictional character because publishers thought that would be likely to push sales up. No new horror novel would hit the shelves unless it featured favourite at least one famous horror icon like Dracula or Dr. Frankenstein. Wouldn't that be wonderful! Well maybe not, but we would no doubt accept it willingly because after all, the publishers have to maximise profits.
I know, a silly example, that would never happen ... uh, at least not outside Marvel/DC superhero comics, hopefully.
Monica Bellucci in Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula (it's worth typing all that out just to highlight how f***ing stupid that title is) was severely under-utilised. Her role should have been expanded - they could have made room for it by cutting that ridiculous reincarnation love story with Mina.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 8:18:04 GMT -5
Heh! In my opinion she has the body of a goddess, so everything's cool! Plus, she had the candour of George Perez's version of WW, which I really enjoyed back in the day (the only time I bought several issues in a row). Haha. Don't get me wrong, She is stunning and played the part well. She just didn't look like she had ever lifted anything heavy before. I don't think finding an actor with twenty more pounds of muscle is going to make the act of lifting a bus over your head look any more believable. (I'm assuming WW performs some super-heroish feats of strength in the movie). I do like the idea of finding (non-'roided) athletic figures for these roles, but super-hero strength is basically magic, so it's not that disconcerting for me if they don't give these roles to athletic types. |
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