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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Oct 20, 2015 16:44:13 GMT -5
I had no clue about Jeffrey B. Bonivert prior to this and bought it for the Paul Jenkins/Mark Martin back up, plus, it was released by the legendary imprint Tundra, always a plus. It was a quite sweet book, with a pretty unique voice and tempo, a surreal if not somewhat bittersweet look at the 80ies comic book culture, with a trio of kids and their saturday comic shop habit. Bonivert started out with Star Reached - whic I own a few issues of - but even though a strong and singular voice within the 80ies indy boom, he remained on the fringes, an aquired taste. The back up is a caricature of the mainstory and cannot be read independently, appart from great art, it doesn't really add anything appart it's brutal conclusion.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 23, 2015 7:44:55 GMT -5
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 24, 2015 10:26:25 GMT -5
I've recently discovered that our public library has a decent collection of TPBs, although they are all back in the "Teen" area, so I feel a little weird about being there but hey, comics. Took out five things yesterday completely out of my normal wheelhouse, four of them being Batman collections and the other being Forever Evil.
Finally read "The Long Halloween", but I'm not sure if I liked it or not. The art was nice, the story was decent, but there was just something I couldn't get into. What are other people's feelings on this story?
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 24, 2015 12:44:38 GMT -5
I've recently discovered that our public library has a decent collection of TPBs, although they are all back in the "Teen" area, so I feel a little weird about being there but hey, comics. Took out five things yesterday completely out of my normal wheelhouse, four of them being Batman collections and the other being Forever Evil. Finally read "The Long Halloween", but I'm not sure if I liked it or not. The art was nice, the story was decent, but there was just something I couldn't get into. What are other people's feelings on this story? "The Long Halloween" frequently shows up on Top Five or Top Ten Best Batman Stories lists, but I always assume that's because the voting is done by people in their twenties and lower who have never read a Batman story written before "The Dark Knight Returns." "The Long Halloween" is OK, and if it wasn't so popular I would probably barely remember it. It's just not that good. Jeph Loeb is the most over-rated Batman writer in the character's history. "The Long Halloween" is a series of pin-ups with a barely adequate Raymond Chandler pastiche scribbled in the margins to pad it out to 13 issues. Many people disagree with me, but I don't think I've ever met a "Long Halloween" fan who reads enough real books to know how badly Loeb is aping his sources.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 24, 2015 13:02:39 GMT -5
In Loeb's defense, I like Hush a lot better. I love the art. The story is just as dumb and needlessly convoluted with a lot of transparent opportunities for gratuitous pin-ups. But Hush doesn't take itself nearly as seriously as "The Long Halloween" does. So I found it a lot more enjoyable.
My big problem with comics (and movies like Nolan's Batman films and The Man of Steel) getting all dark and serious is that they don't go all the way. They try to act like "this is a realistic presentation of what it's like to be a super-hero" and then they make it dark and depressing, and yet the writers don't take it seriously enough to work out plotholes and weak motivations and idiotic plot points. So you really can't take it seriously and you have a depressing story and it's not fun anymore and all the really dumb stuff really sticks out.
Here's an example from The Man of Steel: the death of Pa Kent. That was ridiculous. The point they were trying to make (that Pa Kent was pretty adamant that Clark should not reveal himself) was totally ruined by the fact that there are several ways that Clark could have saved the dog without revealing himself. He could have gone and saved the dog as Clark very easily and if the tornado had grabbed him and he survived, well, Midwesterners know that tornadoes can be capricious. There was no reason for Pa Kent to die. If you're going to get that serious, you need to have better writing. (And I didn't hate The Man of Steel. I was just very disappointed that it was so bloody stupid far too much of the time. If you're just going to do stupid Superman movies, then let us have Krypto and Jimmy the giant turtle boy!)
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 24, 2015 13:51:29 GMT -5
I've recently discovered that our public library has a decent collection of TPBs, although they are all back in the "Teen" area, so I feel a little weird about being there but hey, comics. Took out five things yesterday completely out of my normal wheelhouse, four of them being Batman collections and the other being Forever Evil. Finally read "The Long Halloween", but I'm not sure if I liked it or not. The art was nice, the story was decent, but there was just something I couldn't get into. What are other people's feelings on this story? It never ceases to amaze me what little old lady librarians think is for kids. I used to crusade on that quite a bit (I've mellowed in my old age). I remember one time seeing Transmet in the kids section, along with Sandman, Lucifer, and a few others. I brought it to the libarians attention, and she said 'of course they are in the kids sections, they're funny books' I got mad, grabbed the Transmet, and showed her a page with voluminous naughty words and Spider mooning someone. She sputtered 'I never' and asked me to leave. I have no doubt there are still 6 year olds looking a Spider Jersualem's butt and giggling in that town.
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Post by The Cheat on Oct 24, 2015 16:12:29 GMT -5
Incredible Hulk Epic: Ghost of the Past - Hmm, this one didn't last long. Not sure if the panel count was low, or there was another reason it read so fast, but I breezed through it fairly quickly. Anyway, moderately decent contents. I have no real idea who the Pantheon were, and nothing in here made me too interested in finding out, but the Rick/Marlo storyline was enjoyable. Gary Frank's art in the second half of the book was pretty easy on the eye. It was interesting to see some of his early work, his style was still very similar to his current work, just less refined. Quite impressive considering how drastically some artist's styles change over the course of their careers. As for the writing, I generally enjoy PAD's work, but read in bulk his constant sarcastic voices for, pretty much all his characters, becomes very repetitive. I know the reasons they're releasing the Epics out of order, but I can't help feeling I'd have enjoyed this more if they'd started collecting PADs run from the beginning so I had a bit of context for some of the characters/situations. Oh well.
Next up, Strontium Dog: Search & Destroy Files 1.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2015 18:00:31 GMT -5
Incredible Hulk Epic: Ghost of the Past - Hmm, this one didn't last long. Not sure if the panel count was low, or there was another reason it read so fast, but I breezed through it fairly quickly. Anyway, moderately decent contents. I have no real idea who the Pantheon were, and nothing in here made me too interested in finding out, but the Rick/Marlo storyline was enjoyable. Gary Frank's art in the second half of the book was pretty easy on the eye. It was interesting to see some of his early work, his style was still very similar to his current work, just less refined. Quite impressive considering how drastically some artist's styles change over the course of their careers. As for the writing, I generally enjoy PAD's work, but read in bulk his constant sarcastic voices for, pretty much all his characters, becomes very repetitive. I know the reasons they're releasing the Epics out of order, but I can't help feeling I'd have enjoyed this more if they'd started collecting PADs run from the beginning so I had a bit of context for some of the characters/situations. Oh well. Next up, Strontium Dog: Search & Destroy Files 1. Actually PAD's entire Hulk run up to this point has already been collected in 8 Hulk Visionaries TPB's... up to #396 where Ghost of the Past picks up. They are actually around the same price as the epic line though it looks like some are out of print. The Pantheon had been in the Hulk book for a couple years by this point and are a pretty interesting group of characters once you learn more about them. I recommend reading them if you ever have the opportunity.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 25, 2015 11:32:48 GMT -5
In Loeb's defense, I like Hush a lot better. I love the art. The story is just as dumb and needlessly convoluted with a lot of transparent opportunities for gratuitous pin-ups. But Hush doesn't take itself nearly as seriously as "The Long Halloween" does. So I found it a lot more enjoyable. My big problem with comics (and movies like Nolan's Batman films and The Man of Steel) getting all dark and serious is that they don't go all the way. They try to act like "this is a realistic presentation of what it's like to be a super-hero" and then they make it dark and depressing, and yet the writers don't take it seriously enough to work out plotholes and weak motivations and idiotic plot points. So you really can't take it seriously and you have a depressing story and it's not fun anymore and all the really dumb stuff really sticks out. Here's an example from The Man of Steel: the death of Pa Kent. That was ridiculous. The point they were trying to make (that Pa Kent was pretty adamant that Clark should not reveal himself) was totally ruined by the fact that there are several ways that Clark could have saved the dog without revealing himself. He could have gone and saved the dog as Clark very easily and if the tornado had grabbed him and he survived, well, Midwesterners know that tornadoes can be capricious. There was no reason for Pa Kent to die. If you're going to get that serious, you need to have better writing. (And I didn't hate The Man of Steel. I was just very disappointed that it was so bloody stupid far too much of the time. If you're just going to do stupid Superman movies, then let us have Krypto and Jimmy the giant turtle boy!) Funny you mention Hush, because that is one of the other books I took out of the library. I actually read the entire story last night at my daughter's swim meet (70 events, and she only swims 4 of them, so there is a LOT of time I don't pay attention to what is going on in the pool). Agree with you that the art is very pretty, but the amount of disbelief one has to suspend in order to pretend like it makes any sense whatsoever is staggering. It certainly doesn't take itself as seriously as The Long Halloween, which wants to be "art" but is really just a murkily-drawn, poorly-written comic at the end of the day (or holiday, more accurately), which is why, of the two, I enjoyed Hush more.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 25, 2015 13:41:16 GMT -5
In Loeb's defense, I like Hush a lot better. I love the art. The story is just as dumb and needlessly convoluted with a lot of transparent opportunities for gratuitous pin-ups. But Hush doesn't take itself nearly as seriously as "The Long Halloween" does. So I found it a lot more enjoyable. My big problem with comics (and movies like Nolan's Batman films and The Man of Steel) getting all dark and serious is that they don't go all the way. They try to act like "this is a realistic presentation of what it's like to be a super-hero" and then they make it dark and depressing, and yet the writers don't take it seriously enough to work out plotholes and weak motivations and idiotic plot points. So you really can't take it seriously and you have a depressing story and it's not fun anymore and all the really dumb stuff really sticks out. Here's an example from The Man of Steel: the death of Pa Kent. That was ridiculous. The point they were trying to make (that Pa Kent was pretty adamant that Clark should not reveal himself) was totally ruined by the fact that there are several ways that Clark could have saved the dog without revealing himself. He could have gone and saved the dog as Clark very easily and if the tornado had grabbed him and he survived, well, Midwesterners know that tornadoes can be capricious. There was no reason for Pa Kent to die. If you're going to get that serious, you need to have better writing. (And I didn't hate The Man of Steel. I was just very disappointed that it was so bloody stupid far too much of the time. If you're just going to do stupid Superman movies, then let us have Krypto and Jimmy the giant turtle boy!) Funny you mention Hush, because that is one of the other books I took out of the library. I actually read the entire story last night at my daughter's swim meet (70 events, and she only swims 4 of them, so there is a LOT of time I don't pay attention to what is going on in the pool). Agree with you that the art is very pretty, but the amount of disbelief one has to suspend in order to pretend like it makes any sense whatsoever is staggering. It certainly doesn't take itself as seriously as The Long Halloween, which wants to be "art" but is really just a murkily-drawn, poorly-written comic at the end of the day (or holiday, more accurately), which is why, of the two, I enjoyed Hush more. I've used the library to catch up on a lot of hyped and highly acclaimed works that I missed over the years. In the last two years or so, I've read Identity Crisis ("love letter to the Silver Age"? Whoever wrote that blurb doesn't know when the Silver Age was or what a love letter is. And it's not good at all.), Final Crisis (also not good), The Dark Knight Strikes Back (I actually found this pretty entertaining) Batman RIP (Ugh.) and most of X-Men: The Age of Apocalypse (Not good, but it's so long, I warmed to it a little, I enjoyed seeing some of my favorite X-Men characters (I haven't read X-Men in a looong time) and I enjoyed hatin' on Gambit and ... there was one character I really hated, one of the other characters defined by phonetic dialogue - so bad!) Among others. Some Birds of Prey TPBs. Some Wonder Woman TPBs. Random Marvels. (I read some She-Hulk TPBs I really liked. The really bad? I thought When in Rome was one of the worst Batman stories I've ever read. Ugh. So bad. I hear Jeph Loeb got even worse but if that's true, I don't want to read any of it. But even worse: Kevin Smith's Widening Gyre. So bad, it creates a whole new category of bad comics. It helped me to appreciate every comic I'd ever read that I thought was bad. It makes When in Rome look like Big Numbers. The good? The graphic novel Lajka is incredible. Also, I love All-Star Superman. It's my second favorite Superman story after that great two-part Luthor adventure from the Golden Age where he gets hold of the Powerstone and wreaks havoc.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 25, 2015 14:02:08 GMT -5
Funny you mention Hush, because that is one of the other books I took out of the library. I actually read the entire story last night at my daughter's swim meet (70 events, and she only swims 4 of them, so there is a LOT of time I don't pay attention to what is going on in the pool). Agree with you that the art is very pretty, but the amount of disbelief one has to suspend in order to pretend like it makes any sense whatsoever is staggering. It certainly doesn't take itself as seriously as The Long Halloween, which wants to be "art" but is really just a murkily-drawn, poorly-written comic at the end of the day (or holiday, more accurately), which is why, of the two, I enjoyed Hush more. I've used the library to catch up on a lot of hyped and highly acclaimed works that I missed over the years. In the last two years or so, I've read Identity Crisis ("love letter to the Silver Age"? Whoever wrote that blurb doesn't know when the Silver Age was or what a love letter is. And it's not good at all.), Final Crisis (also not good), The Dark Knight Strikes Back (I actually found this pretty entertaining) Batman RIP (Ugh.) and most of X-Men: The Age of Apocalypse (Not good, but it's so long, I warmed to it a little, I enjoyed seeing some of my favorite X-Men characters (I haven't read X-Men in a looong time) and I enjoyed hatin' on Gambit and ... there was one character I really hated, one of the other characters defined by phonetic dialogue - so bad!) Among others. Some Birds of Prey TPBs. Some Wonder Woman TPBs. Random Marvels. (I read some She-Hulk TPBs I really liked. The really bad? I thought When in Rome was one of the worst Batman stories I've ever read. Ugh. So bad. I hear Jeph Loeb got even worse but if that's true, I don't want to read any of it. But even worse: Kevin Smith's Widening Gyre. So bad, it creates a whole new category of bad comics. It helped me to appreciate every comic I'd ever read that I thought was bad. It makes When in Rome look like Big Numbers. The good? The graphic novel Lajka is incredible. Also, I love All-Star Superman. It's my second favorite Superman story after that great two-part Luthor adventure from the Golden Age where he gets hold of the Powerstone and wreaks havoc. They have a lot of DC stuff, things that I have never even considered reading, at this particular library, so I am going to pick up things here and there to see what, if anything, I like. The other two books I took out this time are the first two volumes of Batman '66, which seems to be pretty popular with some of the folks around here who still read modern comics, so I'm cautiously optimistic; I will start reading the first volume tomorrow night during my younger daughter's piano lesson.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 25, 2015 14:08:41 GMT -5
I'm very curious about Batman '66. I'm going to see if my library has it.
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Post by Spike-X on Oct 26, 2015 1:22:40 GMT -5
Batman '66 is a big squishy goober of fun.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 26, 2015 7:07:55 GMT -5
Batman '66 is the only contemporary comic I'm following (albeit in trade).
Cei-U! I summon the keeper!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 26, 2015 18:22:40 GMT -5
Read the newly revamped Children's Crusade crossover today... I had missed it back in the day. I remember being confused about the Free Country stuff in Book of Magic as a newish reader. I was a little disappointed it was mostly about the Dead Boy Detectives, rather than being more crossover-y (or, just about Tim), and it was at an eariler point than I thought. The DBD's grew on me, though, I didn't like them that much in their previous appearance (though that was long ago that I read that).
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