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Post by paulie on May 6, 2014 12:54:15 GMT -5
I never understood why people don't like particular characters. It's all about who writes and draws it. It's the story that is compelling and characters are merely a part of the story.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 6, 2014 14:09:01 GMT -5
I never understood why people don't like particular characters. It's all about who writes and draws it. It's the story that is compelling and characters are merely a part of the story. On the one hand I basically agree - On the other hand... Characters are also a vehicle for specific themes, motifs, and art styles. And I like some themes, motifs, and art styles better than others. So I like the cluster of ideas that goes into Wonder Woman or Spider-man better than the cluster of ideas that goes into Batman or Thor. |
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Post by paulie on May 6, 2014 14:14:04 GMT -5
I never understood why people don't like particular characters. It's all about who writes and draws it. It's the story that is compelling and characters are merely a part of the story. On the one hand I basically agree - On the other hand... Characters are also a vehicle for specific themes, motifs, and art styles. And I like some themes, motifs, and art styles better than others. So I like the cluster of ideas that goes into Wonder Woman or Spider-man better than the cluster of ideas that goes into Batman or Thor. Well-put.
'Why I Hate/Love the Hulk' has been discussed at great volume over at the old place and on a couple of other forums I post to.
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Post by DE Sinclair on May 6, 2014 16:23:36 GMT -5
I never understood why people don't like particular characters. It's all about who writes and draws it. It's the story that is compelling and characters are merely a part of the story. The story, writer, and artist are all important parts of the product, but so are the characters. The characters are what readers (or viewers in the case of TV/movies) get invested in. They start to care about what happens to these fictional people. It's a well established fact that anthologies have a much more difficult time surviving in comics or on TV than do series with recurring characters. That's due in large part to there being no one for the audience to get attached to. If there is something the audience doesn't like about the character, that can cause them to disengage from the entire product. And, of course, it's also true that writing or art they don't like can overcome them liking the character as well and cause them to drop the product. Plus what Reptisaurus! said. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 6, 2014 16:29:57 GMT -5
I never understood why people don't like particular characters. It's all about who writes and draws it. It's the story that is compelling and characters are merely a part of the story. Mostly I agree with you. I'm not a character guy any more. But there are some characters that just don't click with you for one reason or another no matter who is writing them. For me that's Silver/Bronze Age Superman. If Alan Moore can't make him interesting to me (and he couldn't) nobody can. |
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Post by Ozymandias on May 6, 2014 17:18:20 GMT -5
I never understood why people don't like particular characters. It's all about who writes and draws it. It's the story that is compelling and characters are merely a part of the story. Mostly I agree with you. I'm not a character guy any more. But there are some characters that just don't click with you for one reason or another no matter who is writing them. For me that's Silver/Bronze Age Superman. If Alan Moore can't make him interesting to me (and he couldn't) nobody can. Even if the character wasn't interesting, you must admit the story was. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 6, 2014 17:22:55 GMT -5
Mostly I agree with you. I'm not a character guy any more. But there are some characters that just don't click with you for one reason or another no matter who is writing them. For me that's Silver/Bronze Age Superman. If Alan Moore can't make him interesting to me (and he couldn't) nobody can. Even if the character wasn't interesting, you must admit the story was. I absolutely don't have to admit that because it simply isn't the case. |
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Post by Ozymandias on May 6, 2014 17:25:50 GMT -5
Even if the character wasn't interesting, you must admit the story was. I absolutely don't have to admit that because it simply isn't the case. Well, if it's "absolutely" I'll have to take your word for it. Someone who expresses himself with such confidence obviously has access to knowledge from higher planes of existence. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 6, 2014 17:30:43 GMT -5
I absolutely don't have to admit that because it simply isn't the case. Well, if it's "absolutely" I'll have to take your word for it. Someone who expresses himself with such confidence obviously has access to knowledge from higher planes of existence. It's good that you're finally acknowledging the simple truths of life. |
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Post by Ozymandias on May 6, 2014 17:33:14 GMT -5
Well, if it's "absolutely" I'll have to take your word for it. Someone who expresses himself with such confidence obviously has access to knowledge from higher planes of existence. It's good that you're finally acknowledging the simple truths of life. Less than a week to achieve that won't make a slow learner out of me, I hope. |
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Post by maddog1981 on May 6, 2014 17:56:30 GMT -5
I'm working my way through the Essential Defenders volumes. I just read Defenders #10 which had a pretty good Thor vs. Hulk fight. Defenders is pretty good up until, oh I dunno..., issue 65 or 70 or thereabouts. Lots of good stories.
#10 might be the best Thor/Hulk fight.
David Kraft's last issue as writer was #68 and then it's a pretty stable decline after that. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 18:08:44 GMT -5
Copied over from my accidental duplicate thread
I've been reading through Came The Dawn, the Fantagraphics collection of Wally Wood's EC horror and crime contributions. It's all his efforts in that genre for EC, which is really cool, even if he's better known for the rocket ships and space stuff.
So one other thing Wood did was what they called "Preachies," which were social commentary stories that tackled issues such as racism, antisemitism, sexism, and so on. And I just got to that part of the book, having read three examples so far, and at this point I consider these stories absolute must reads for everyone interested in Golden Age comics. It was a rare attitude to see print in those days, and very refreshing from the unfortunate examples of race and gender issues displayed by other great Golden Age creators. So pick it up, it's much cheaper than the EC Archives reprints, features one of the Golden Age's greatest illustrators, and has rare pre-Civil Rights movement social commentary that doesn't seem to be coming from the wrong side of the issue. Hooray!
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Post by fanboystranger on May 6, 2014 18:11:14 GMT -5
Defenders is pretty good up until, oh I dunno..., issue 65 or 70 or thereabouts. Lots of good stories.
#10 might be the best Thor/Hulk fight.
David Kraft's last issue as writer was #68 and then it's a pretty stable decline after that. Yeah. I like Ed Hannigan's art, but his run on Defenders is one of the single worst comics runs I've ever read. Notable for a young Kurt Busiek writing a few critical letters to the letters page.
JM DeMatteis brought some life back to the title. I actually liked a lot of Peter Gillis was trying to do with the title. He was throwing around some wild ideas, but the very pedestrian art from Don Perlin didn't do his stories any favors.
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Post by fanboystranger on May 6, 2014 18:16:25 GMT -5
Copied over from my accidental duplicate thread I've been reading through Came The Dawn, the Fantagraphics collection of Wally Wood's EC horror and crime contributions. It's all his efforts in that genre for EC, which is really cool, even if he's better known for the rocket ships and space stuff. So one other thing Wood did was what they called "Preachies," which were social commentary stories that tackled issues such as racism, antisemitism, sexism, and so on. And I just got to that part of the book, having read three examples so far, and at this point I consider these stories absolute must reads for everyone interested in Golden Age comics. It was a rare attitude to see print in those days, and very refreshing from the unfortunate examples of race and gender issues displayed by other great Golden Age creators. So pick it up, it's much cheaper than the EC Archives reprints, features one of the Golden Age's greatest illustrators, and has rare pre-Civil Rights movement social commentary that doesn't seem to be coming from the wrong side of the issue. Hooray! I remember back at CBR a few months ago that you were eyeing the slipcase that included Kurtzman's Corpse on the Imjin and Willaimson's 50 Girls 50. Is that the one you bought? That seemed like such a great value. I own Corpse... and 50 Girls 50, but I haven't pulled the trigger on Came the Dawn yet. (I do own the Johnny Craig volume, which has some great crime stories.) |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 18:32:30 GMT -5
Yeah I bought that set for $60. For four 200 page hardcovers it is a tough deal to beat. They all look amazing too. I haven't had much exposure to EC except the odd 80's reprint and maybe one or two FCBD floppies, so this is my first time really getting into it. They had a very high standard for their work.
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