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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 23, 2018 23:00:35 GMT -5
Early Thor was a mess. And it was easily the most DC-like of the early Marvel superhero books. Thor was pretty much a Superman ripoff until they started to explore Asgard. It was. But it became something awesome when it did explore Asgard, All our favorites have to start somewhere . I think the early Batman and Superman stories are awful. The early Superman stories, say the first year or two, are the only time I’ve found Superman remotely interesting. I’d also say that Batman was ruined by Robin and didn’t become interesting again until the 70s.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 23, 2018 23:12:54 GMT -5
I've read several times you saying you are not a Superman fan, in disbelief. I thought they were typos. Superman is the greatest character ever created. You never enjoyed the Swan/Anderson era?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 23:28:55 GMT -5
In the current Avengers: No Surrender event, Mark Waid was asked for his Top 5 favorite Avengers stories. This novel was his fifth choice. Waid praised the book for it's solid characterization and fun story. Considering that I'd never heard of this book (or this novel series of which it's a part of), I was intrigued enough to hunt down a copy. Michelinie being a seasoned comic pro made this an easier choice too and in his intro, he gives credit to Layton, Shooter, Mantlo, and Stern for their assistance in getting this book done. The plot revolves around a lingering plot thread that, as far I as know, has never really been picked up within any of the comics. It concerns the time when Cap was frozen in the ice block and worshiped in the Eskimo village before being found by Namor. The question is, as the local shaman of that village, who saw Steve as an ice god totem that brought prosperity back to his village and helped keep their traditions alive, what lengths would this shaman go to in order to retrieve his former ice god totem and thus refurbish not only his village but his own reputation and pride as well? And what role does Kang, future warlord, have in all this? The story moves at a brisk pace, with plenty of action naturally. I can very well see this whole story being released as a small multi-part arc within the comic itself during the Bronze Age. But Waid most praised the characterization and on this point, he was spot-on. The reader gets a strong impression of the differing opinions and feelings of these Avengers (whose roster is that pictured on the front cover). Note is especially given to the triangle of Pietro-Wanda-Vision as Quicksilver feels anger over what he considers is an unfeeling machine taking over the role of protecting his sister while Wanda and Vision continue to explore their new found marriage. Thor is haughty of course with Beast being ever so jovial but I also liked the focus on Iron Man and his efforts to calm the brewing tension among the team members while presenting the image of a confident leader. Being published in 1979, the book does have it's dated references (who knew the Quinjet had an 8-track player?) but for me, that's just part of the charm, a neat fun piece of Marvel mania that does indeed showcase the strength of the mighty Avengers. I have several books form that series. Avengers 170 and 171 I believe (an Ultron story) was an adaptation of a short story Shooter wrote for the anthology book in the series. I'm not sure if I have that particular book though (I have the Dr. Strange, the anthology and 2-3 more but I can't recall offhand which ones. -M
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 23:31:33 GMT -5
It was. But it became something awesome when it did explore Asgard, All our favorites have to start somewhere . I think the early Batman and Superman stories are awful. The early Superman stories, say the first year or two, are the only time I’ve found Superman remotely interesting. I’d also say that Batman was ruined by Robin and didn’t become interesting again until the 70s. I pretty much agree. Superman was much more interesting when he couldn't fly and a bursting bombshell could still hurt him, and Tec 27-37 are among my favorite Batman stories and the dynamic was never as interesting once Robin was introduced until Dick went off to college. I really enjoyed Robin as part of the New Teen titans, but as Batman's sidekick, not so much, and don't even get me started on Jason Todd... -M
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 23, 2018 23:33:01 GMT -5
I've read several times you saying you are not a Superman fan, in disbelief. I thought they were typos. Superman is the greatest character ever created. You never enjoyed the Swan/Anderson era? Not a hoax. Not a trick. Not an imaginary story. I despise the Silver/Bronze Age Superman. Not even Alan Moore could make him interesting. I find the far less powered very early Superman that was focused on societal ills instead of tricking Lois Lane into wearing a silly hat far preferable. To be fair, I generally don’t care for overly powered characters. I have virtually no interest in Marvel’s cosmic characters. I’m not a big fan of Green Lantern. The exception, to some extent, is supernatural or magical characters. It’s possible, however, that I find them better written (Swamp Thing, Spectre, John Constantine).
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 23, 2018 23:37:02 GMT -5
The early Superman stories, say the first year or two, are the only time I’ve found Superman remotely interesting. I’d also say that Batman was ruined by Robin and didn’t become interesting again until the 70s. I pretty much agree. Superman was much more interesting when he couldn't fly and a bursting bombshell could still hurt him, and Tec 27-27 are among my favorite Batman stories and the dynamic was never as interesting once Robin was introduced until Dick went off to college. I really enjoyed Robin as part of the New Teen titans, but as Batman's sidekick, not so much, and don't even get me started on Jason Todd... -M Agreed. I do have a very soft spot for the Batman television show as it's directly responsible for me getting into comics. Jason Todd was bad enough when he was a Dick Grayson clone. His second iteration was irredeemable in every way.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 23, 2018 23:40:21 GMT -5
I've read several times you saying you are not a Superman fan, in disbelief. I thought they were typos. Superman is the greatest character ever created. You never enjoyed the Swan/Anderson era? Not a hoax. Not a trick. Not an imaginary story.
Nice. So what characters do you like ? Please don't say 'Mazing man...
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 23, 2018 23:42:15 GMT -5
The early Superman stories, say the first year or two, are the only time I’ve found Superman remotely interesting. I’d also say that Batman was ruined by Robin and didn’t become interesting again until the 70s. I pretty much agree. Superman was much more interesting when he couldn't fly and a bursting bombshell could still hurt him, and Tec 27-37 are among my favorite Batman stories and the dynamic was never as interesting once Robin was introduced until Dick went off to college. I really enjoyed Robin as part of the New Teen titans, but as Batman's sidekick, not so much, and don't even get me started on Jason Todd... -M You find this interesting , but unless you are 100 years old you weren't around to read these when they came out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 23:46:17 GMT -5
I pretty much agree. Superman was much more interesting when he couldn't fly and a bursting bombshell could still hurt him, and Tec 27-37 are among my favorite Batman stories and the dynamic was never as interesting once Robin was introduced until Dick went off to college. I really enjoyed Robin as part of the New Teen titans, but as Batman's sidekick, not so much, and don't even get me started on Jason Todd... -M You find this interesting , but unless you are 100 years old you weren't around to read these when they came out. I read Superman from the 30s to the 70s as a kid, and the early stories from Action in the 30s and 40s were more interesting to me than the 50 and 60s stuff. I liked syndicated reruns of the George Reeves Adventures of Superman where he was addressing more mundane stuff much more than Superfriends where he was punching planets. So while I wasn't there when they were coming out, I was exposed ot both types of stories a sa kid and liked the earlier stuff better. When I purged comics last year, I kept the Superman Chronicles editions I had reprinting the ealry stories and gave away all the late Silver and Bronze Superman stuff I had (most of it went to you if I recall) -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 23, 2018 23:52:07 GMT -5
You find this interesting , but unless you are 100 years old you weren't around to read these when they came out. I read Superman from the 30s to the 70s as a kid, and the early stories from Action in the 30s and 40s were more interesting to me than the 50 and 60s stuff. I liked syndicated reruns of the George Reeves Adventures of Superman where he was addressing more mundane stuff much more than Superfriends where he was punching planets. So while I wasn't there when they were coming out, I was exposed ot both types of stories a sa kid and liked the earlier stuff better. When I purged comics last year, I kept the Superman Chronicles editions I had reprinting the ealry stories and gave away all the late Silver and Bronze Superman stuff I had (most of it went to you if I recall) -M I see many of the Silver/Bronze Age Superman stories as mysteries that he has to solve. It showed a clever way of writing that doesn't exist today.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 23, 2018 23:58:08 GMT -5
Not a hoax. Not a trick. Not an imaginary story.
Nice. So what characters do you like ? Please don't say 'Mazing man... Mazing Man was incredible. Super fun book gone way before its time. Overall I’m not a character guy. Characters are only as good as the creators (though in some cases even the best creators don’t help). That said... Dian Belmont and Wes “Sandman” Dodds. Jon Sable. Dominic Fortune. Wildcat I was a fan of the Bronze Age Batman. Jim Corrigan...much more so than the Soectre. Jonah Hex. I liked Spider-Man in the Bronze Age.
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Post by Batflunkie on Feb 24, 2018 0:20:58 GMT -5
To be fair, I generally don’t care for overly powered characters. I have virtually no interest in Marvel’s cosmic characters. I’m not a big fan of Green Lantern. The exception, to some extent, is supernatural or magical characters. It’s possible, however, that I find them better written There's also much more freedom in magic based characters. For as old as it is, Alan Scott era Green Lantern has held up vastly betrer when compared to it's silver age counterparts, even though it does fall into every action adventure trope of the period. And my love for space based characters is hard to describe but watching/reading any of Carl Sagan's work a good window into it. It's about life itself and harnessing it's power to do good
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 24, 2018 6:41:50 GMT -5
Nice. So what characters do you like ? Please don't say 'Mazing man... Mazing Man was incredible. Super fun book gone way before its time. Overall I’m not a character guy. Characters are only as good as the creators (though in some cases even the best creators don’t help). That said... Dian Belmont and Wes “Sandman” Dodds. Jon Sable. Dominic Fortune. Wildcat I was a fan of the Bronze Age Batman. Jim Corrigan...much more so than the Soectre. Jonah Hex. I liked Spider-Man in the Bronze Age. All in all, not a bad group of characters. They all seem to have in common that none of them are the strongest hero in the room and often have to struggle against odds to win. I like the confident hero that has the situation in hand when they arrive , guys like Superman, Thor Iron Man. You're group is usually weaker than their opponent and my group is stronger but have to get past obstacles to win.
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Post by String on Feb 24, 2018 12:36:50 GMT -5
In the current Avengers: No Surrender event, Mark Waid was asked for his Top 5 favorite Avengers stories. This novel was his fifth choice. Waid praised the book for it's solid characterization and fun story. Considering that I'd never heard of this book (or this novel series of which it's a part of), I was intrigued enough to hunt down a copy. Michelinie being a seasoned comic pro made this an easier choice too and in his intro, he gives credit to Layton, Shooter, Mantlo, and Stern for their assistance in getting this book done. The plot revolves around a lingering plot thread that, as far I as know, has never really been picked up within any of the comics. It concerns the time when Cap was frozen in the ice block and worshiped in the Eskimo village before being found by Namor. The question is, as the local shaman of that village, who saw Steve as an ice god totem that brought prosperity back to his village and helped keep their traditions alive, what lengths would this shaman go to in order to retrieve his former ice god totem and thus refurbish not only his village but his own reputation and pride as well? And what role does Kang, future warlord, have in all this? The story moves at a brisk pace, with plenty of action naturally. I can very well see this whole story being released as a small multi-part arc within the comic itself during the Bronze Age. But Waid most praised the characterization and on this point, he was spot-on. The reader gets a strong impression of the differing opinions and feelings of these Avengers (whose roster is that pictured on the front cover). Note is especially given to the triangle of Pietro-Wanda-Vision as Quicksilver feels anger over what he considers is an unfeeling machine taking over the role of protecting his sister while Wanda and Vision continue to explore their new found marriage. Thor is haughty of course with Beast being ever so jovial but I also liked the focus on Iron Man and his efforts to calm the brewing tension among the team members while presenting the image of a confident leader. Being published in 1979, the book does have it's dated references (who knew the Quinjet had an 8-track player?) but for me, that's just part of the charm, a neat fun piece of Marvel mania that does indeed showcase the strength of the mighty Avengers. I have several books form that series. Avengers 170 and 171 I believe (an Ultron story) was an adaptation of a short story Shooter wrote for the anthology book in the series. I'm not sure if I have that particular book though (I have the Dr. Strange, the anthology and 2-3 more but I can't recall offhand which ones. -M I was surprised to learn of this series. I recall some paperbacks that collected the strips/comics from that time but not any prose novels. I will have to hunt down some more books from this series. For I've always enjoyed novels based on the comics and even novelizations of major events (O'Neill's Knighfall, Rucka's No Man's Land, Maggin's Kingdom Come, Stern's Death of Superman was especially good). To me, they showcase the strength of these characters and concepts apart from the amazing art that typically accompanies them. Marvel had a line of novels back in the late 90s that featured some good stories and I think it was the early aughts that DC released a small line of Justice League novels, featuring solo books (such as O'Neill writing Kyle Rayner and Stern writing Superman) and a team book.
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Post by String on Feb 24, 2018 12:41:17 GMT -5
I read Superman from the 30s to the 70s as a kid, and the early stories from Action in the 30s and 40s were more interesting to me than the 50 and 60s stuff. I liked syndicated reruns of the George Reeves Adventures of Superman where he was addressing more mundane stuff much more than Superfriends where he was punching planets. So while I wasn't there when they were coming out, I was exposed ot both types of stories a sa kid and liked the earlier stuff better. When I purged comics last year, I kept the Superman Chronicles editions I had reprinting the ealry stories and gave away all the late Silver and Bronze Superman stuff I had (most of it went to you if I recall) -M I see many of the Silver/Bronze Age Superman stories as mysteries that he has to solve. It showed a clever way of writing that doesn't exist today. To be fair though, I thought that was in response to how powerful he had become by that point. That to maintain interest, they had to switch to his outwitting foes more because he could out-punch anything.
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