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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 20, 2018 23:38:28 GMT -5
I've been digging into 1982-83 issues of World's Finest, beginning with issue # 283, the book's downsizing from a Dollar Comic to a 32-pager. After a few issues by outgoing writer Cary Burkett, the title took a more cerebral turn as Doug Moench, just arrived from Marvel, explored the Superman-Batman relationship on a far more personal level, showing the two complemented each other, and playing off what Moench saw as central traits: Batman's nearly-obsessive desire to 'eradicate' crime, and Superman being the example of 'the opposite of evil', an ideal that he wants to pursue in lifting Earth to the same lofty standard as his original home, Krypton. I'm a few issues in, just finished # 292, in which Superman and Batman are guests on a radio talk show, and must deal with a phoned-in terrorist threat to murder the show's hostess...and wipe out Gotham City...before the end of the show.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 21, 2018 16:17:20 GMT -5
Somewhere around 1984 it went off the rails, though perhaps there were some warning signs even before then. Storm going all "angsty punk" was the point where the stories & characterization stopped being enjoyable for me. That was a big turning point. I agree. But the biggest jump the shark moment for me was Rachel Summers (from the Day of Future Past future) appearing and becoming a regular cast member in #184. It's one of the instances of Claremont recycling old ideas because he'd apparently run out of good new ideas, and also the start of the whole convoluted mess of alternate future reality characters popping up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 16:21:40 GMT -5
DC Archives - Legion of SuperheroesArchives 4 and 5 yesterday ... and took home Number 6 and 7 and will read them later ... Finished 6 and 7 today and returning them back tomorrow and get 8 and 9 to read for the weekend, I'm really enjoying these books and I wished that I paid more attention to LOSH back then and as an adult it is a joy to read them. My friend and I has been commenting and discussing these books. Great Group and pleasantly enjoyable to read.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 21, 2018 16:28:38 GMT -5
DC Archives - Legion of SuperheroesArchives 4 and 5 yesterday ... and took home Number 6 and 7 and will read them later ... Finished 6 and 7 today and returning them back tomorrow and get 8 and 9 to read for the weekend, I'm really enjoying these books and I wished that I paid more attention to LOSH back then and as an adult it is a joy to read them. My friend and I has been commenting and discussing these books. Great Group and pleasantly enjoyable to read. About 10 years ago, I re-read all of my favorite runs from my childhood - X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, JLA, Micronauts, and Legion of Super-Heroes. I think the Legion and Avengers were the two I enjoyed the most upon re-reading. Most of my Legion collection is form the late 60's through the mid 80's though. As far as the Archives, I've only got #9 and 10. I am very, very slowly making my way through Legion comics now, but I'll try to read a lot of Silver Age ones too, if I can find them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 16:35:20 GMT -5
Finished 6 and 7 today and returning them back tomorrow and get 8 and 9 to read for the weekend, I'm really enjoying these books and I wished that I paid more attention to LOSH back then and as an adult it is a joy to read them. My friend and I has been commenting and discussing these books. Great Group and pleasantly enjoyable to read. About 10 years ago, I re-read all of my favorite runs from my childhood - X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, JLA, Micronauts, and Legion of Super-Heroes. I think the Legion and Avengers were the two I enjoyed the most upon re-reading. Most of my Legion collection is form the late 60's through the mid 80's though. As far as the Archives, I've only got #9 and 10. I am very, very slowly making my way through Legion comics now, but I'll try to read a lot of Silver Age ones too, if I can find them. Both Silver and Golden Age are my favorites -- I've did not read much of the Bronze Age because I was too busy with work and career. Thanks for sharing it.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 22, 2018 7:44:58 GMT -5
About 10 years ago, I re-read all of my favorite runs from my childhood - X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, JLA, Micronauts, and Legion of Super-Heroes. I think the Legion and Avengers were the two I enjoyed the most upon re-reading. Most of my Legion collection is form the late 60's through the mid 80's though. As far as the Archives, I've only got #9 and 10. I am very, very slowly making my way through Legion comics now, but I'll try to read a lot of Silver Age ones too, if I can find them. Both Silver and Golden Age are my favorites -- I've did not read much of the Bronze Age because I was too busy with work and career. Thanks for sharing it. Golden Age? I don't think there was a Golden Age Legion, was there?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 8:30:45 GMT -5
Both Silver and Golden Age are my favorites -- I've did not read much of the Bronze Age because I was too busy with work and career. Thanks for sharing it. Golden Age? I don't think there was a Golden Age Legion, was there? My bad for the communication ... I've met Golden Age period. Sorry.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 22, 2018 12:58:30 GMT -5
Golden Age? I don't think there was a Golden Age Legion, was there? My bad for the communication ... I've met Golden Age period. Sorry. Got it. As far as the Legion goes, I like it a lot from the time Jim Shooter takes over in 1966 onwards, up to the mid 80's.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 14:50:38 GMT -5
My bad for the communication ... I've met Golden Age period. Sorry. Got it. As far as the Legion goes, I like it a lot from the time Jim Shooter takes over in 1966 onwards, up to the mid 80's. Understood and thanks for your comments here.
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Post by Duragizer on Aug 24, 2018 12:28:50 GMT -5
I haven’t read too many Archie or Punisher comics, yet I’ve the sneaking suspicion this here tale tops the rest.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,946
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Post by Crimebuster on Aug 24, 2018 14:10:12 GMT -5
Archie Meets the Punisher is a legitimately awesome comic. It's just great - well written, great art, funny, everything you want from either an Archie or a Punisher comic.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 24, 2018 15:26:47 GMT -5
I finished Showcase Presents The Legion of Super-Heroes vol. 1. Frankly, most of the early stories aren't that great, though it gets better when Edmond Hamilton takes over the writing chores in 1963. Too many bizarre goings on, and it seems like almost every issue has some Legionnaire acting like a jerk or suspiciously for some hidden motive which winds up being noble, if a bit goofy. The Secret Origin of Bouncing Boy was actually one of my favorite stories in there, and the one where Hitler, John Dillinger, and Nero switch minds with Mon-el, Superboy, and Ultra Boy was cool. The stories with the Legion of Substitute Heroes were also good ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 17:53:40 GMT -5
I finished Showcase Presents The Legion of Super-Heroes vol. 1. Frankly, most of the early stories aren't that great, though it gets better when Edmond Hamilton takes over the writing chores in 1963. Too many bizarre goings on, and it seems like almost every issue has some Legionnaire acting like a jerk or suspiciously for some hidden motive which winds up being noble, if a bit goofy. The Secret Origin of Bouncing Boy was actually one of my favorite stories in there, and the one where Hitler, John Dillinger, and Nero switch minds with Mon-el, Superboy, and Ultra Boy was cool. The stories with the Legion of Substitute Heroes were also good ones. Glad that you've enjoyed it ... and thanks for sharing it. I do like the Legion of Substitute Heroes too and I've totally forgot about them too ... brought back memories.
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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 25, 2018 13:46:32 GMT -5
Completed my binge-read of the last few years of WORLD'S FINEST.I read that title whenever I could find it, although I had some gaps back when they first came out. When WFC reverted to the 32-page format, there was an effort to incorporate continuity with Superman and Batman's other books. However, aside from passing references to Lord Satanis (1982-vintage Superman villain), and a Bat-book subplot from that same year, in which Commissioner Gordon was (temporarily) out of a job, WFC went back to being in a sort of 'bubble' in which anything that happened to its co-stars in their other books was irrelevant.
WFC was,apparently, one of DC's poorer-selling books in its last several years, perhaps for continuity-related reasons(circulation around 185,000 as of '84). The writing and art varied, although a brief run by Doug Moench brought a more emotional, as well as cerebral, look at the 'World's Finest friendship', and a longer run by David Anthony Kraft saw the heroes manage to work together despite the sharp disagreement over Batman's quitting the JLA to form the Outsiders. A sweeping multi-parter, involving aliens and time-travel, culminates with both super-teams collaborating, and the heroes finally resolving their differences amicably. Beyond # 300, the book continues to ignore outside continuity, and features almost exclusively new villains, notably Null and Void. By 1984, Joey Cavalieri took over as writer, with newcomer Stan Woch, and later the more established Jose Delbo and Alfredo Alcala, on artwork. Cavalieri, writer of Green Arrow's backup series in Detective(and formerly in WFC), mixed in character-driven and action-oriented plots, although a lot of that action is turned over to Batman, as Cavalieri contrives new ways to make Superman his subordinate(one of the lesser efforts is a two-parter, in which both heroes ho on extensive 'undercover' assignments, posing as mobsters, accomplishing what each hero might have done entirely differently within a few pages, if not panels, of their solo books).
Idiosyncrasies in characterization piled up in the last year or so. For whatever reason, Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent seem to visit 'the other guy's' town too many times to be convenient for the plots. Clark is often shown doing the WGBS news is one issue(with Bruce watching faithfully from Wayne Manor), and then 'on assignment' for the GBS network news in Gotham. Bruce's 'playboy lifestyle' is at the forefront here, and, after 1983, there is no mention of Robin(either Dick Grayson or Jason Todd). A story introducing a team of MTV-inspired villains known as 'The Network', also brought in a would-be recurring romantic interest for Bruce, Lilane Stern. A rock-music promoter and nightclub owner, she has the customary fascination with Batman's 'complexity' and disdain for Bruce's 'shallowness'. She simply disappears without comment after # 318. Bruce, meanwhile, often goes off on tangents about wanting to prove that not all rich people are 'bad'. Whether this characterization is meant to contrast Bruce with any corrupt real-life business figures, or merely with J.R. Ewing, Blake Carrington, or other TV characters, it eventually sounded like they were just trying too hard to give the heroes unique 'voices' just for this title.
Ultimately, the series ends with more of a whimper than a bang. In # 321, the heroes fight an anti-climactic battle with Chronos(the first time since the Composite Superman in # 283-284 that they've met a 'classic' villain, not a recent creation). After a rather forgettable fill-in, with art by Keith Giffen, in the next issue, the series ends with # 323, as a magic-based villain named 'Nightwolf' nearly kills Superman. Batman saves the day, but, with the end of the series, and the impending, editorially-mandated end of their friendship looming, Batman chastises his about-to-be-former friend for being so careless, admonishing him with 'I'll save your neck anytime...but I won't write your epitaph. THINK about it.' Cavalieri's final caption sums up the 'fifty-year bond of friendship'(slight exaggeration for 1985), which has now developed 'a crack in the metal', and the final, cryptic, line, 'We can only hope...it is not beyond repair.'
As we know, their friendship, at least in this 'classic, pre-Crisis' form, was toast. The two are even more outwardly hostile in the one-shot HEROES FOR HOPE, and it was more of the same in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA # 250, both of which came out in that awkward interim after CRISIS, but before the revamping of both characters(which would carry over Frank Miller's DARK KNIGHT-inspired animosity into the 'new' regular DC continuity for too many years). I can actually remember choosing not to get the final issue, simply because I'd learned that the two heroes would no longer be written as friends. It just seemed too harsh of a change. Adding Batman to the 'no longer in Detroit' JLA, after similar, "I don't wanna be your friends any more!' outburst toward the Outsiders, was another ill-conceived idea of this era, and just proves that Crisis made almost as big of a mess as it supposedly 'cleaned up'. So..an interesting era to explore...but for my money, the preceding 'Dollar Comic' period (1977-82) had a better handle on the characters.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 25, 2018 15:29:27 GMT -5
That's an interesting summary; I bailed on World's Finest a few issues after it went back to the standard page count. That's because I usually liked the extra features with other characters better than the main Superman/Batman story during the dollar era. However, I think you're right that even those stories were usually better in that period as well.
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