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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 26, 2020 16:32:48 GMT -5
I read this adaptation of the 1979 Buck Rogers in the 25th Century movie. I fondly remember watching the TV show as a kid, but I guess I'd forgotten (or never known) that it was a movie first. This was pretty good. I liked the story well enough (though Wilma doesn't come across as too smart) and the art was decent, but nothing spectacular.
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Post by spoon on Nov 26, 2020 22:40:19 GMT -5
I just finished the Essential Black Panther TPB, so the rest of the Jungle Action run that I was in the middle of plus Black Panther #1-10 by Jack Kirby.
My take on the McGregor vs. Kirby debate is that they're apples and oranges. Each run had it's pluses and minuses, although I can see how someone reading it at the time could be annoyed that Don McGregor's run was cut short. The McGregor run is stronger at the big ideas, but so-so on the execution. The Kirby run is a lot more superficial and doesn't a really good overarching plan to it in my opinion, but skilled in its visual storytelling.
McGregor clearly wanted to do world-building with his Wakanda, create a supporting cast, and deal with real world themes. There was a map of Wakanda created, and McGregor actually has a lot of his stories clearly take place in the locales on the map. I like how Black Panther's African-American girlfriend, Monica Lynne, is used to give an American perspective on Wakanda and a conduit for the connection between the U.S. and Africa. There's some parallels with Monica as a visitor to Wakanda in the first story arc, and T'Challa as a guest in Monica's childhood home of Georgia in the second arc.
But honestly, some of the execution was shaky. Members of the supporting cast blended together to me. I kept confusing W'Kabi, Zatama, etc. I think McGregor gets a little ahead of skis in his writing. He'll drop in some caption about human alienation, but he doesn't do the set-up to tie that to the story. And then he botches little things, like repeatedly referring to a bow as a crossbow. I also think that the bigger themes and world-building get sidelined for several issues in the first arc for what seems like torture porn, as we're repeatedly shown and told how badly Black Panther is brutalized in a series of battles against Killmonger's minions. I was disappointed a bit by Billy Graham's art, although that varied a bit by inker. Back in the 90s, I got the coffee table book Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World's Greatest Comics by Les Daniels as a Christmas present. It had a page from this run, but it turns out to be an atypically strong page, so it set my expectations too high. A similar thing happened with Steranko's Nick Fury, where Daniels excerpted the best pages, and many others pale by comparison. Now, Graham does some creative and impressive things with the page design and how panels are laid out. It's the rendering that's so-so. I think Graham is best served when Bob McLeod comes on as inker during the Klan storyline, even though McLeod can be a bit heavy.
It's cool that McGregor tried to infuse serious themes, although I think they get sidelined at times, especially in the Wakanda arc. It works a bit better in the Klan arc, especially in an issue where Monica's mother recounts some old family lore. That issue has an interesting concept, with Monica imagining the Black Panther in the 1860s to change the course of events. Unfortunately, McGregor actually sticks a little bit of Lost Cause framing in there is a way I felt was inaccurate and annoying.
Kirby's issues are lively reads. I think I actually got through 8 issues today. There's the visual kinetic dynamism that flows through so much Kirby work, and a lot of cliffhangers that make it natural to turn the page. But it's really superficial. It's not really a run that would drive me to re-read it. It also feels like Kirby is going to use the same tools in his toolbox rather than adjust to the character or what's come before. He goes to regular Kirby tropes, including ones that annoy me, like costume designs with a head piece that frames the face on Princess Zanda. He starts in medias res, ignore what went immediately before. And for the first half, it's basically MacGuffins that just seem designed to lead to the next action sequence, monster, or Kirby-esque gadget. The psychology isn't that important. There are all sort of causual sexism like calling Zanda a treacherous female (yes, I known she's bad, but her sex should be irrelevant) to BP repeatedly lifting a little person off the ground. After McGregor did all that work of establishing black supporting cast members, both in Wakanda and Georgia, I don't think there's a black character other than T'Challa until #5 or #6. It's a shame, because the plot (as opposed to the action sequences) get more interesting when Kirby brings Wakanda back. Kirby ignores all McGregor's Wakandan cast members, though, and creates his own Wakanda cast. While the artists who worked with McGregor (Graham and Rich Buckler) did a better job showing Wakanda's physical geography, I like Kirby's take on Wakanda architecture better. For someone interested in social and political themes, McGregor seems too willing to put Wakandans in straw huts. Kirby actually does a better job of creating the advanced nation, or at least one that doesn't seem so disjointed.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 27, 2020 14:08:28 GMT -5
I guess I'd forgotten (or never known) that it was a movie first. I saw it in the movie theater. The original Battlestar Galactica briefly was also in theaters here before being pulled and airing as episodes on tv. I think it was some sort of legality to try to pacify Lucas, I remember the Canadian radio news reporting on it's withdrawal, and something about the Vipers being alleged copies of X-Wings. I had one tv Buck Rogers comic (#11), and one other item; a Twiki robot (with Theo around his neck)... kids loved making the Mel Blanc voice for him. It's hard to believe it was beating Doctor Who in the rating in England for awhile but I know I used to watch it every week.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 14:26:51 GMT -5
I guess I'd forgotten (or never known) that it was a movie first. I saw it in the movie theater. The original Battlestar Galactica briefly was also in theaters here before being pulled and airing as episodes on tv. I think it was some sort of legality to try to pacify Lucas, I remember the Canadian radio news reporting on it's withdrawal, and something about the Vipers being alleged copies of X-Wings. I had one tv Buck Rogers comic (#11), and one other item; a Twiki robot (with Theo around his neck)... kids loved making the Mel Blanc voice for him. It's hard to believe it was beating Doctor Who in the rating in England for awhile but I know I used to watch it every week. I am really surprised Twiki's head design made it past the standards and practice guys at the network. I wonder what the designer was thinking of... -M
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 27, 2020 14:45:57 GMT -5
Nein, es ist ein "pilsen kopf"!
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 27, 2020 15:08:43 GMT -5
Dunno if he's still there but Twiki used to be on display at the Science Fiction Hall of Fame in Seattle.
Cei-U! B'dee-b'dee-b'dee!
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 27, 2020 16:29:31 GMT -5
Dunno if he's still there but Twiki used to be on display at the Science Fiction Hall of Fame in Seattle. Cei-U! B'dee-b'dee-b'dee! I must've missed him, but I got to meet a famous daggit (and Bo Diddley's guitar) when I was there... Bad photo by me.
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Post by earl on Nov 27, 2020 22:43:26 GMT -5
It is kinda neat when you think about it that Doug Moench and Paul Gulacy got to do those stories back referencing Master of Kung Fu. This Batman annual is a bit of a throwback to that style too. This one features some nice JH Williams III artwork.
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Post by spoon on Nov 28, 2020 15:50:32 GMT -5
My next reading project is X-Men Epic Collection vol. 4: It's Always Darkest Before the Dawn. This TPB reprints various appearances by the X-Men after the cancellation of the original series of with X-Men #66 but before the revival with Giant Size X-Men #1. It also includes the covers of the reprint issues. I've previously read most of the comics reprinted here, although I hadn't read most of the Beast stories from Amazing Adventures and some of these I've only read in black and white via Essential TPBs. I think it'll be fun to read these stories together to see how well (or not so well) they link up.
So far in this reading, I'm through Amazing Spider-Man #92 (Iceman guest appearance), Incredible Hulk #150 (Havok & Polaris guest appearances), and Amazing Adventures #11-13 (Beast solo stories). The Spider-Man story has no explicit mention of things being amiss with the X-Men, although Iceman does mention that he's been out of action for a while. He has a couple of encounters with Spidey, but doesn't call the X-Men for help.
I love Incredible Hulk #150. Years ago, when I was trying to look for X-Men completist goals beyond the series itself, this was probably the first issue I bought from the reprint gap. I wish there were more X-Men adventures with Havok and Polaris on the roster back then, but unfortunately it was cancelled before they got fully integrated and I know many X-Men appearances during the gap ignore them. I love the Havok's costume. It's great to see it drawn as pure black, rather than blue or shaded. It gives it a unique look. I'm not much of a Herb Trimpe fan, but the pairing with inker John Severin works a lot better than most Trimpe/inker pairings. This issue mentions that Havok left the X-Men after a fight (shown in flashback, occurred after the original X-Men run) with Iceman. In the end, Polaris convinces him to rejoin the team.
The Beast solo run is interesting so far. There's horror and tragedy running through it. I'm interested in seeing how the industrial espionage subplot plays out. At the beginning, Hank McCoy leaves Xavier Mansion to take a job with the Brand Corporation. Later, it's claimed that the X-Men have been in hiding since the events of X-Men #66. This seems at odds with Iceman ability to operate in public in Amazing #92, where a D.A. candidate actually tries to use him to benefit his campaign. Beast gets transformed into his furry form, although so far he's more gray than blue. There's a Dr. Maddicks, who as I remember it is the father of Archie Maddicks who shows up in early issues of X-Factor more than a decade later. Hank has an excuse why he doesn't turn to the X-Men for help, which sort of seems to work. Jean comments to Professor X that Hank is the only one who has been "allowed to leave", which is a creepy way of putting it.
The stories (and covers of the reprint issues) are most in order of publication. Hulk #150 is moved a bit earlier, presumably to avoid interrupting the flow of the Beast solo stories. One set of stories was published during the reprint era but ends up in the prior Epic Collection. That an Angel solo story that was a back-up in 2 issues of Ka-Zar and 1 issue of Marvel Tales. It probably ends up there, because the first part was before the Amazing Spider-Man story with Iceman, although the 2 other parts were published after. Also, it was written in 1967, but held in inventory for 3 years, so it may fit better then, and it balances the page count.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 28, 2020 16:58:12 GMT -5
My next reading project is X-Men Epic Collection vol. 4: It's Always Darkest Before the Dawn. This TPB reprints various appearances by the X-Men after the cancellation of the original series of with X-Men #66 but before the revival with Giant Size X-Men #1. It also includes the covers of the reprint issues. Some of those new reprint covers were very memorable. I had the early '80s reprint of that Havok & Polaris Hulk story. I think anything by either Severin is bound to be top drawer, but seeing favorite underused characters as well made that extra cool. The thing I most remember thinking from one of those Beast comics was what were the odds of him making a rubber mask of his old human face (and hands) that would fool people close up? Suddenly Hank McCoy was great effects artist? And a back straightening brace. I did like the Mike Ploog art though, someone else who couldn't have made enough comics for me! I have the Captain America and Defenders issues with some of the X-Men appearing. In relation to the later Hidden Years series I mentioned to John Byrne something about how their seeming to have gone back to their original costumes (which was due to the reprints in X-Men at that time being pre #39, and where they were still in the old uniforms) might've been handled if he'd gotten up to the point of the Captain America appearance. He replied they might've done it for a reason to stabilize Professor X. I remember Xavier having some incidents of treating X-men, even Wolverine, like a school master issuing demerits, so maybe he would've reverted to that for awhile requiring his students wear their school uniforms.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 28, 2020 19:46:06 GMT -5
I just read that a bit ago (almost done with vol 5 now). I was surprised at how Horror-y the Beast stories were... definitely a big departure for the character. It was almost a Jekyll and Hyde vibe. I was thinking the rubber mask and gloves were a bit ridiculous, too, but no more so than image inducers or unstable molecules.
Thought it was nice how they tied up loose ends (like Havoc and Polaris) outside their book. I wonder if they were testing a return, or just wrapping things up?
I was surprised how much of a connection they had to the Hulk.. quite a few guest spots. It's a nice run the epics cover now... I next one coming out brings you up to Days for Future past.
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Post by spoon on Nov 28, 2020 20:30:38 GMT -5
I just read that a bit ago (almost done with vol 5 now). I was surprised at how Horror-y the Beast stories were... definitely a big departure for the character. It was almost a Jekyll and Hyde vibe. I was thinking the rubber mask and gloves were a bit ridiculous, too, but no more so than image inducers or unstable molecules. Thought it was nice how they tied up loose ends (like Havoc and Polaris) outside their book. I wonder if they were testing a return, or just wrapping things up? I was surprised how much of a connection they had to the Hulk.. quite a few guest spots. It's a nice run the epics cover now... I next one coming out brings you up to Days for Future past. I was going to say that it's hard for me to justify buying more X-Men Epic Collection TPBs because I have the stories in other forms. But then I see vol. 5 has a little bit of stuff (MTU #53 and FOOM #10) that I don't have in another form. The three X-Men Epics I own (3, 4, and 17) were purchased because I had teeny tiny gaps to fill in the materials, and I had gift cards I could use to buy those TPBs at Barnes & Noble or Amazon. Yeah, I'm 3 issues into the Beast stories, and a little unnerving when his assistant leans in to give him a peck on the (rubber mask) cheek.
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Post by spoon on Nov 28, 2020 21:11:59 GMT -5
My next reading project is X-Men Epic Collection vol. 4: It's Always Darkest Before the Dawn. This TPB reprints various appearances by the X-Men after the cancellation of the original series of with X-Men #66 but before the revival with Giant Size X-Men #1. It also includes the covers of the reprint issues. Some of those new reprint covers were very memorable. I had the early '80s reprint of that Havok & Polaris Hulk story. I think anything by either Severin is bound to be top drawer, but seeing favorite underused characters as well made that extra cool. The thing I most remember thinking from one of those Beast comics was what were the odds of him making a rubber mask of his old human face (and hands) that would fool people close up? Suddenly Hank McCoy was great effects artist? And a back straightening brace. I did like the Mike Ploog art though, someone else who couldn't have made enough comics for me! I have the Captain America and Defenders issues with some of the X-Men appearing. In relation to the later Hidden Years series I mentioned to John Byrne something about how their seeming to have gone back to their original costumes (which was due to the reprints in X-Men at that time being pre #39, and where they were still in the old uniforms) might've been handled if he'd gotten up to the point of the Captain America appearance. He replied they might've done it for a reason to stabilize Professor X. I remember Xavier having some incidents of treating X-men, even Wolverine, like a school master issuing demerits, so maybe he would've reverted to that for awhile requiring his students wear their school uniforms. I didn't realize Incredible Hulk #150 was reprinted. I see per the GCD it was in Marvel Super-Heroes. As far as reprint series go, Classic X-Men was essentially in assembling my X-Men collection as a kid, which is still a Frankenstein's monster of Uncanny and Classic stitched together. I was excited about Hidden Years, but the execution didn't live up to my expectations. I stopped reading after a while. It's a shame the X-Men switched back to the original uniforms in their guest appearances to match the reprints. The individualized costumes they got in the latter part of the Silver Age were much better.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 29, 2020 13:35:24 GMT -5
I was excited about Hidden Years, but the execution didn't live up to my expectations. I stopped reading after a while. I would say that series started out with a bang, that got me wanting #2, 3, but then it did seem to be stretched out and not as interesting for awhile, they do meet a young Ororo, and Sentinels are usually good, but most had flown into the sun at that time... by the end however I felt things got interesting again tying-in with Fantastic Four #103-104 (Magneto and Sub-Mariner included)! Plus Joe Sinnott did some of the inking (the FF parts). If I'd known more about his Lost Generation title of 1950s-ish characters I might've appreciated that tie-in more initially.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 29, 2020 15:25:25 GMT -5
I guess I'd forgotten (or never known) that it was a movie first. I saw it in the movie theater. The original Battlestar Galactica briefly was also in theaters here before being pulled and airing as episodes on tv. I think it was some sort of legality to try to pacify Lucas, I remember the Canadian radio news reporting on it's withdrawal, and something about the Vipers being alleged copies of X-Wings. I had one tv Buck Rogers comic (#11), and one other item; a Twiki robot (with Theo around his neck)... kids loved making the Mel Blanc voice for him. It's hard to believe it was beating Doctor Who in the rating in England for awhile but I know I used to watch it every week. I know Lucas wasn't too happy about Battlestar Galactica. I think the special effects guy that worked on Star Wars also did Battlestar, and I don't think he amicably left Lucas. I do remember having the Ceylon Raider and Colonial Viper...not to mention the Space:1999 Eagle space ship. I also remember having the Twiki action figure. That's all I really remember having as far as Buck Rogers collectibles.
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