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Post by kirby101 on Jan 8, 2023 19:54:40 GMT -5
I think the Black Panther was meant for younger readers, and for that they are a joy. Captain America has some good parts, I think he lost interest because there were some in Marvel who were sabatoging him. But he did manage to create the Mad Bomb and Ansem Zola as a plus.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 8, 2023 19:55:02 GMT -5
The magic of the Fourth World books was that Kirby would give you a concept or character and switch to something else. It left you wanting more. Unfortunately, that was also the weakness of a Kirby book, he gave you something but never fully developed it. That's why he needed Stan Lee.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2023 19:57:49 GMT -5
I read Avengers #2 today. The Space Phantom is so crazy. Hulk rudely calling Thor “stupid” makes me laugh. I think the most brain-goggling moment is when the Space Phantom masquerades as a regular guy on the street in a striped orange jacket and infiltrates Avengers Mansion and is being monitored by the Avengers and the Wasp says “He’s not bad-looking.” Oh Janet. The Avengers and all the kooky bits INCLUDING the Wasp' dialogue could do no wrong with me. I love it all. But remember, the Wasp was always trying to get a rise out of Hank by making him jealous. No argument there! It’s all great. I also love that part where Rick learns that the Hulk is actually a Space Phantom, and he hunts up the nearest ham-radio operator who is in the Teen Brigade so he can warn the Avengers. And the kid is like, “Ma! Pa! It’s Rick Jones himself and he’s calling up Giant-Man!” And in the next panel, ma and pa are right there, about to swoon because somebody in their house is actually talking to Giant-Man! |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 8, 2023 20:00:21 GMT -5
The magic of the Fourth World books was that Kirby would give you a concept or character and switch to something else. It left you wanting more. Unfortunately, that was also the weakness of a Kirby book, he gave you something but never fully developed it. That's why he needed Stan Lee. I agree.. I actually like Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur alot more than New Gods and Eternals... the former just oozes amazing creativity and concepts. New Gods and Eternals try to be epic and just sort of fall a bit flat, IMO. |
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Post by Calidore on Jan 8, 2023 20:03:56 GMT -5
I read all of Kirby's Fourth World work a couple of years ago and largely enjoyed it. The one thing I really hated was his lack of interest in writing Mister Miracle's escapes. Scott would be caught in a deathtrap, and then he's just suddenly not in the trap anymore, because he escaped, because he's the world's greatest escaper. That, at least, is something I was thankful later writers fixed.
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 8, 2023 20:57:35 GMT -5
The magic of the Fourth World books was that Kirby would give you a concept or character and switch to something else. It left you wanting more. Unfortunately, that was also the weakness of a Kirby book, he gave you something but never fully developed it. That's why he needed Stan Lee. I don't completely agree. Yes he and Stan developed the concepts more. But that was over 50 or 100 issues. The New Gods had 11. Were the FF or Thor or X-Men developed after that many issues? That said, even his assistants tried to keep Jack on track at times. Not to start the whole Kirby-Lee thing. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2023 22:45:02 GMT -5
I’m up to Avengers #4 and I hardly know where to begin. I’ve read it a bunch of times and I always have the same problems, most of them going back to when I first read it about 1980.
Captain America is being worshipped by Eskimos ... OK.
Namor just happens to come by and gets mad at the Eskimos because reasons and throws their god out to sea.
Where the Avengers somehow find him thawed out and floating in the Arctic Ocean. I guess they had a bunch of coincidences left over from last issue.
(But let’s give them some extra points because the Wasp didn’t say, “For a frozen, floating corpse, he’s pretty cute!”)
Cap flashes back to the war and remembers a shadowy villain but not his name or what he looks like. Also he mentions they were assigned to the ETO (European Theater of Operations) despite being found floating off the coast of Newfoundland.
The bad guy is a broccoli-headed alien with a ray gun that turns you to stone.
Somehow, the Sub-Mariner has contacted the alien and knows about his trapped spaceship and his ray gun and gets him to petrify the Avengers in the exchange for helping with his spaceship.
Oh! And Rick Jones looks just like Bucky!
I love so much of the craziness in these early issues of the Avengers but #4 has always been a bit much for me.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 8, 2023 22:48:03 GMT -5
I’m up to Avengers #4 and I hardly know where to begin. I’ve read it a bunch of times and I always have the same problems, most of them going back to when I first read it about 1980. Captain America is being worshipped by Eskimos ... OK. Namor just happens to come by and gets mad at the Eskimos because reasons and throws their god out to sea. Where the Avengers somehow find him thawed out and floating in the Arctic Ocean. I guess they had a bunch of coincidences left over from last issue. (But let’s give them some extra points because the Wasp didn’t say, “For a frozen, floating corpse, he’s pretty cute!”) Cap flashes back to the war and remembers a shadowy villain but not his name or what he looks like. Also he mentions they were assigned to the ETO (European Theater of Operations) despite being found floating off the coast of Newfoundland. The bad guy is a broccoli-headed alien with a ray gun that turns you to stone. Somehow, the Sub-Mariner has contacted the alien and knows about his trapped spaceship and his ray gun and gets him to petrify the Avengers in the exchange for helping with his spaceship. Oh! And Rick Jones looks just like Bucky! I love so much of the craziness in these early issues of the Avengers but #4 has always been a bit much for me. I may just have to link here when I get around to reviewing Avengers #4. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2023 23:00:45 GMT -5
I’m up to Avengers #4 and I hardly know where to begin. I’ve read it a bunch of times and I always have the same problems, most of them going back to when I first read it about 1980. Captain America is being worshipped by Eskimos ... OK. Namor just happens to come by and gets mad at the Eskimos because reasons and throws their god out to sea. Where the Avengers somehow find him thawed out and floating in the Arctic Ocean. I guess they had a bunch of coincidences left over from last issue. (But let’s give them some extra points because the Wasp didn’t say, “For a frozen, floating corpse, he’s pretty cute!”) Cap flashes back to the war and remembers a shadowy villain but not his name or what he looks like. Also he mentions they were assigned to the ETO (European Theater of Operations) despite being found floating off the coast of Newfoundland. The bad guy is a broccoli-headed alien with a ray gun that turns you to stone. Somehow, the Sub-Mariner has contacted the alien and knows about his trapped spaceship and his ray gun and gets him to petrify the Avengers in the exchange for helping with his spaceship. Oh! And Rick Jones looks just like Bucky! I love so much of the craziness in these early issues of the Avengers but #4 has always been a bit much for me. I may just have to link here when I get around to reviewing Avengers #4. Honestly? I just barely scratched the surface. Like, look at the way Thor got the spaceship out of the ocean floor. He could just go down and lift it up. But no. He moves the hammer in a circular motion or something and activated the hammer’s magnetic power and uses that to raise the spaceship. This comic book. I can’t even ... |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2023 23:03:50 GMT -5
I do like the way that Rick contacts the Teen Brigade, and all the New York members show up to help Rick and Cap find the broccoli-headed alien.
If I think of anything else I like, I’ll let you know.
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 8, 2023 23:16:54 GMT -5
I think it took a few years for many of the Marvel books to hit there stride. The art, characters and inventiveness made up for a lot of awkwardness. And I think it's important to compare them to other books at the time than say Bronze Age classics.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,193 
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Post by Confessor on Jan 9, 2023 0:45:15 GMT -5
I read the first two Doctor Strange stories last night. It is amazing what Ditko could do in just five pages. They have such a Golden Age feel to them, like they could easily have been produced twenty or even thirty years earlier. I love Ditko's Dr. Strange. I'm not sure I agree that those first couple of stories seem like something from the Golden Age, but I would say that they smack much more of the weird tales that would populate these types of comics, rather than regular superhero fare. That first Dr. Strange story in particular, with its moralistic tale of a not-so-nice man who has a problem and encounters a magical force (in the shape of Dr. Strange) and ultimately gets his comeuppance, is very much in the tradition of the weird/sci-fi tales that had been regularly featured in Strange Tales. The villain Nightmare might well be the most memorable and striking character from that first story. The second Dr. Strange story is probably a bit more "superhero-y" than the first, what with the introduction of Baron Mordo as a recurring arch-enemy. There's also an improvement in Ditko's artwork. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,193
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Post by Confessor on Jan 9, 2023 1:01:13 GMT -5
Just finished Dan Dare: The Man from Nowhere, which was great fun, like all the Dan Dares I've read so far, but I didn't realise it was just the first part of a story that continues in Rogue Planet. So I had to order Rogue Planet and since the Titan volume was a little more expensive than I'd hoped, I ordered an older edition. This happened once before and it worked out fine - the older edition was of as good quality as the Titan - but you never know until you actually see it. You can't go wrong with mid-period Dan Dare like this. "The Man from Nowhere" is a real favourite of mine, and of course constitutes the first part of a loose trilogy with "Rogue Planet" and "Reign of the Robots". |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 9, 2023 6:55:51 GMT -5
I may just have to link here when I get around to reviewing Avengers #4. Honestly? I just barely scratched the surface. Like, look at the way Thor got the spaceship out of the ocean floor. He could just go down and lift it up. But no. He moves the hammer in a circular motion or something and activated the hammer’s magnetic power and uses that to raise the spaceship. This comic book. I can’t even ... I love that it took them an afternoon to build the ramp in order to lift the ship up. That ship might have been thousands of feet under water. The storytelling wanted to reflect teamwork and that it wasn't an easy thing to get this ship out of the ditch. These days they would shortcut the entire thing and have him left it up, but I liked that these situations were shown to be more difficult than just snapping a finger or pulling a lever. These are storytelling choices that writers made and make for a genre that mostly silly and impossible. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 9, 2023 7:05:29 GMT -5
Just finished Dan Dare: The Man from Nowhere, which was great fun, like all the Dan Dares I've read so far, but I didn't realise it was just the first part of a story that continues in Rogue Planet. So I had to order Rogue Planet and since the Titan volume was a little more expensive than I'd hoped, I ordered an older edition. This happened once before and it worked out fine - the older edition was of as good quality as the Titan - but you never know until you actually see it. You can't go wrong with mid-period Dan Dare like this. "The Man from Nowhere" is a real favourite of mine, and of course constitutes the first part of a loose trilogy with "Rogue Planet" and "Reign of the Robots".
What? I didn't realise Reign was part of it too. I would have ordered it eventually anyway but now I'll do that sooner than I would have. Always nice to have the next one on hand just in case you feel like continuing immediately.
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