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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 4, 2023 12:56:13 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of Moench or Conway's Thor runs. shax has a much higher opinion of the former than I do.
Cei-U!
I summon the double dose of "meh"!
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 4, 2023 14:27:28 GMT -5
Shax feels about Moeoch the way I feel about Shooter. They can do no wrong.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 4, 2023 21:36:06 GMT -5
I’m up to Avengers #65.
It’s been quite an interesting time for the Avengers. It’s kind of like every issue since about #50 has been part of a series of auditions for new members, and every new member has several issues for their backstory, contrasted with Avengers #16 where all the new members’ backstories were in footnotes. (Of course, some of the new members aren’t new; they’re just going through changes.)
The Black Panther, on Captain America’s recommendation, joins in #52.
The Vision first appears in #57 and soon joins the ranks.
Here comes Yellowjacket (and that whole can of worms) in #59.
And Hawkeye hangs up his bow in #63 to take Pym’s growth serum to become Goliath.
Not to mention guest appearances by the Black Knight, the X-Men, Wanda, Pietro, Doctor Strange and the occasional former Avenger.
Villains include: the Collector, the Grim Reaper, Magneto, the Toad, the new Masters of Evil, Jarvis, Ultron, Zemo, the Scarlet Centurion, the Man-Ape, Surtur, Ymir, the Swordsman and the terrifying trio of Egghead, the Thinker and the Puppet-Master.
One thing that struck me was the way that Hawkeye is a constant presence on the team through the entire Silver Age after his introduction in #16. I’m not sure how far it keeps going into the Bronze Age. Some fans might think Captain America is the heart of the Avengers. I’m starting to think that, for a very long time, it was Hawkeye.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 5, 2023 14:23:52 GMT -5
I finished Marvel Mastetworks, Hulk, Volume Three, reprinting Tales to Astonish #80 to #101 and Incredible Hulk #102. When I was done, I thought about a few weird incidents involving the transformations to or from the Hulk, especially when he turns from Hulk to Banner, and I marked down every time he changes form, and I made notes on what causes each change.
In the 1970s and most of the 1980s, Bruce Banner would change into the Hulk when he was attacked or excited or stressed. And he would change back into Bruce Banner when he calmed down or fell asleep. (Although I’m sure that if I go through those issues and take notes, I’ll find it’s not always very consistent.)
As we all probably know, in the first few years of the Hulk’s career, he went through various ways for the transformation to take place. He became Hulk at night; he used a gamma machine; in one issue, Rick tossed a pill into Hulk’s mouth and he turned into Banner.
In the period covered by this Masterworks collection, it was pretty firmly established that Banner turned into Hulk when stressed or excited, despite a few occasions where he turned into Hulk via other means. Of the 11 times Banner turns into the Hulk, it’s because of excitement or stress or danger on eight occasions. Of the other three, in TTA #89, the Stranger turns him into the Hulk; in TTA #99, Banner uses one of his gamma devices from earlier issues because (it’s implied) his powers were drained by a ray gun used by the Legion of the Living Lightning; and Loki’s magic turns him into the Hulk in TTA #101.
I should mention that the Hulk frequently rampaged through entire issues without ever turning into Banner. In TTA #82, #83, #84, #93, #94, #97 and #98, he remains the Hulk throughout the entire issue.
Hulk changes to Banner ten times in these issues. On only two of these occasions does the change occur because Hulk is calm, asleep or unconscious: in TTA #88, Boomerang uses a tranquilizer gas which causes Hulk to turn into Banner; and in TTA #101, Hulk is knocked unconscious by a tidal wave and washes up on the beach in the form of Bruce Banner.
In the other eightcases, the transformation occurs for a variety of reasons:
TTA #80 - Hulk is fighting Mole Man’s Octo-sapien robot and it explodes. Bruce Banner walks out of the smoke and rubble. (He appears to be wearing glasses, which is a bit odd.)
TTA #85 - The Hulk leaps up and grabs the out-of-control Orion missile. Somehow, hanging on to the missile triggers the change to Bruce Banner.
TTA #87 - The Hulk-Killer android strikes Rick, and somehow that makes Hulk turn into Banner
TTA #90 - Thinking too hard triggers the change to Banner.
TTA #91 - Rick Jones grabs Hulk’s leg and begs him to change to Banner. The Hulk drags him along behind him for a few panels, but eventually it works and he becomes Banner.
TTA #95 - Cosmos rays change Hulk to Bruce Banner as he is traveling on a spaceship on the way to New Wundagore.
TTA #99 - A device used by the Legion of the Living Lightning drains Hulk if his gamma power and he changes into Banner
TTA #100 - Loki’s magic changes Hulk into Banner.
I’m tempted to read the next batch of Hulk issues just to find out when the writers started treating the Hulk-to-Banner transformation with the same consistency that they observe for the Banner-to-Hulk transformation.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 6, 2023 0:30:50 GMT -5
Finished up the Essential Spider-Woman... the last few issues by Ann Nocenti. That was something! She created a bunch of characters just to never use again? (at the time) I guess when you get a swing at the Marvel Universe you give it a shot and see if anything sticks? Very interesting to think about... and something that never in a million years would happen today.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 5:13:40 GMT -5
Finished up the Essential Spider-Woman... the last few issues by Ann Nocenti. That was something! She created a bunch of characters just to never use again? (at the time) I guess when you get a swing at the Marvel Universe you give it a shot and see if anything sticks? Very interesting to think about... and something that never in a million years would happen today. I read that about 3 years ago. Which characters are you thinking of? Which one do you most wish had been used again? |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 6, 2023 7:54:32 GMT -5
I liked Daddy Long Legs alot (apparently they tied him to Eric Josten, but never did anything else).. Locksmith also seemed interesting, but was never was mentioned again. It's more it was odd to throw new characters out in a series that was already known to be cancelled.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 8:03:39 GMT -5
I liked Daddy Long Legs alot (apparently they tied him to Eric Josten, but never did anything else).. Locksmith also seemed interesting, but was never was mentioned again. It's more it was odd to throw new characters out in a series that was already known to be cancelled. I’m thinking about Leverage, who challenged She-Hulk. His name says it all, he’d studied the scientific principles of leverage. Interesting gimmick. Not sure if he appeared again. |
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Post by tonebone on Feb 6, 2023 9:23:18 GMT -5
Shax feels about Moeoch the way I feel about Shooter. They can do no wrong. You know, I've been reading through the first handful of issues of Warriors of Plasm (scans), and I've been really impressed with Shooter's worldbuilding. The phrases and concepts were hard to muddle through at first, but he's really building a solid mythology for the world of Plasm, and how the ecosystem and politics work. He's really great at throwing "normies" into the mix, as well. So far, I would recommend it, and look forward to reading more. |
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Post by arfetto on Feb 6, 2023 10:55:01 GMT -5
You know, I've been reading through the first handful of issues of Warriors of Plasm (scans), and I've been really impressed with Shooter's worldbuilding. The phrases and concepts were hard to muddle through at first, but he's really building a solid mythology for the world of Plasm, and how the ecosystem and politics work. He's really great at throwing "normies" into the mix, as well. So far, I would recommend it, and look forward to reading more. I think I am probably the biggest Warriors of Plasm fan on this board (I am just guessing haha), so I am glad to read another member's thoughts on it. The first storyline (that is collected in a tpb) is probably the best group of issues (though there is a fun Lapham written and drawn issue involving Grimmax/Splatterball), but some of the later ones were setting up for the Schism event that I think would have been quite interesting. I have a lot to type about Warriors of Plasm (but I will probably do that in my '90s thread when I re-read it). |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 6, 2023 16:33:40 GMT -5
Currently making my way through King of the Royal Mounted, a serialized comic strip that I'd never heard of until I found two collected editions by Dragon Lady Press in my local comic shop this week. I've always wanted to spend more time on Golden Age adventure comic strips, but the few I've tried in the past failed to grab my attention. I'm finding this one thrilling, though.  |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,844
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Post by shaxper on Feb 6, 2023 16:47:09 GMT -5
Shax feels about Moeoch the way I feel about Shooter. They can do no wrong. Both are quite capable of wrong. I've definitely given some low grades in my Doug Moench from the Beginning review thread. This one comes to mind as a particularly terrible story that there is no forgiving. I'm not a big fan of Moench or Conway's Thor runs. shax has a much higher opinion of the former than I do. Moench's Thor run certainly wasn't an all-out classic (I gave it a B in my writeup here), but it went in some pretty bold directions that I'm surprised no one talks about today: crises of faith, the "god" aspect of Thor, Dr. Don Blake inadvertantly allowing a patient to die by transforming into Thor, and an entire issues devoted to depression and implied thoughts of suicide. Speedy shoots up, and the whole world is still taking five decades later, but somehow this stuff got forgotten even when some of it is arguably bolder. FWIW Shooter told Moench that he could not bring in the norse Gods nor do anything mythic with Thor in his run. Allegedly, Shooter wanted Thor treated like Marvel's version of Superman. That seriously limited the scope of Moench's work and ensured that it was never going to be on the level of Lee/Kirby and Simonson. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 6, 2023 17:28:27 GMT -5
Currently making my way through King of the Royal Mounted, a serialized comic strip that I'd never heard of until I found two collected editions by Dragon Lady Press in my local comic shop this week. I've always wanted to spend more time on Golden Age adventure comic strips, but the few I've tried in the past failed to grab my attention. I'm finding this one thrilling, though. Is this Sgt. Preston? And King is his dog? If so, I’m very familiar with the radio show, but I’m not familiar with Sgt. Preston in any other medium. I think the radio show was usually called The Challenge of the Yukon, so maybe it’s not the same thing. It’s been quite a while since I listened to old radio on a regular basis. One of my friends, however, is a huge fan of Challenge of the Yukon. So the format and the characters are pretty fresh in my memory just because he brings it up a lot. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,844
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Post by shaxper on Feb 6, 2023 17:42:00 GMT -5
Currently making my way through King of the Royal Mounted, a serialized comic strip that I'd never heard of until I found two collected editions by Dragon Lady Press in my local comic shop this week. I've always wanted to spend more time on Golden Age adventure comic strips, but the few I've tried in the past failed to grab my attention. I'm finding this one thrilling, though. Is this Sgt. Preston? And King is his dog? No, Dave King is a Canadian Mountie. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Feb 6, 2023 18:19:58 GMT -5
Shax feels about Moeoch the way I feel about Shooter. They can do no wrong. You know, I've been reading through the first handful of issues of Warriors of Plasm (scans), and I've been really impressed with Shooter's worldbuilding. The phrases and concepts were hard to muddle through at first, but he's really building a solid mythology for the world of Plasm, and how the ecosystem and politics work. He's really great at throwing "normies" into the mix, as well. So far, I would recommend it, and look forward to reading more. They kind of incorporated some elements from Plasm into Valiant's War-Mother one-shot and subsequent mini-series. I'd really be interested to know what kind of direction the Defiant universe would have taken if they hadn't been so decimated by the Marvel lawsuit
FWIW Shooter told Moench that he could not bring in the norse Gods nor do anything mythic with Thor in his run. Allegedly, Shooter wanted Thor treated like Marvel's version of Superman. That seriously limited the scope of Moench's work and ensured that it was never going to be on the level of Lee/Kirby and Simonson. Shooter really makes it hard for me to stand in his corner sometimes. It feels more like a mandate from the higher ups rather than him. Somebody who really understood Thor and was true "ambassador of the characters" would understand that the not having the mythology aspect in Thor is basically screwing up everything that makes the character fun and unique |
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