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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 7, 2023 7:35:29 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate the "spider totem" concept. It's right up there with "Peter's parents were murdered SHIELD agents" in the pantheon of boneheaded ideas grafted onto a great character.
Cei-U!
I summon the Marvel equivalent of Mopee the Heavenly Helper!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 7, 2023 7:41:00 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate the "spider totem" concept. It's right up there with "Peter's parents were murdered SHIELD agents" in the pantheon of boneheaded ideas grafted onto a great character. Cei-U! I summon the Marvel equivalent of Mopee the Heavenly Helper! Agreed, but 'Tony Stark was really an alien, and Arno is really Howard and Maria's kid' might be worse. Tough call, there. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 7, 2023 9:08:46 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate the "spider totem" concept. It's right up there with "Peter's parents were murdered SHIELD agents" in the pantheon of boneheaded ideas grafted onto a great character. Well, at least the Spider-totem idea was left ambiguous in the final analysis. So, as a fan you could basically choose whether you thought Peter's powers came from science or magic. Myself, I thought it was an interesting concept, but was glad that Straczynski refrained from making it abolute cannon and instead left it up to the individual reader to form his/her own opinion. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 7, 2023 11:16:09 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate the "spider totem" concept. It's right up there with "Peter's parents were murdered SHIELD agents" in the pantheon of boneheaded ideas grafted onto a great character. Well, at least the Spider-totem idea was left ambiguous in the final analysis. So, as a fan you could basically choose whether you thought Peter's powers came from science or magic. Myself, I thought it was an interesting concept, but was glad that Straczynski refrained from making it abolute cannon and instead left it up to the individual reader to form his/her own opinion. It's good for broadening the scope of the mythos I guess, same with the Spider-Verse, but IDK
I think there's something to be said for the nice kind of simplicity involving Peter's origins in Amazing Fantasy #15, just a wall-flower trying to make up for egotistical mistake that cost his Uncle's life. I mean the book ran for a long time just with that as the backing and that's all people needed and it's what made the character such a big success
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 7, 2023 12:00:03 GMT -5
Well, at least the Spider-totem idea was left ambiguous in the final analysis. So, as a fan you could basically choose whether you thought Peter's powers came from science or magic. Myself, I thought it was an interesting concept, but was glad that Straczynski refrained from making it abolute cannon and instead left it up to the individual reader to form his/her own opinion. It's good for broadening the scope of the mythos I guess, same with the Spider-Verse, but IDK I think there's something to be said for the nice kind of simplicity involving Peter's origins in Amazing Fantasy #15, just a wall-flower trying to make up for egotistical mistake that cost his Uncle's life. I mean the book ran for a long time just with that as the backing and that's all people needed and it's what made the character such a big success
I don't disagree with you on that at all. That's why I like it that the origin as shown in AF #15 is still absolutely sound if you want it to be. In fact, I'm not sure the "Spider-totem" thing has even been referenced that much outside of JMS' run, has it? I know Morlun has appeared elsewhere, but I'm not sure how connected he is to the totem concept these days. Personally, I quite liked the "Spider-totem" concept, without loving it -- at least where Peter is concerned (Ezekiel is another matter because he definitely has totemic powers, which is fine with me). Either way, I think it made for some good comics in the short term. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 7, 2023 14:49:16 GMT -5
It's good for broadening the scope of the mythos I guess, same with the Spider-Verse, but IDK I think there's something to be said for the nice kind of simplicity involving Peter's origins in Amazing Fantasy #15, just a wall-flower trying to make up for egotistical mistake that cost his Uncle's life. I mean the book ran for a long time just with that as the backing and that's all people needed and it's what made the character such a big success
I don't disagree with you on that at all. That's why I like it that the origin as shown in AF #15 is still absolutely sound if you want it to be. In fact, I'm not sure the "Spider-totem" thing has even been referenced that much outside of JMS' run, has it? I know Morlun has appeared elsewhere, but I'm not sure how connected he is to the totem concept these days. Personally, I quite liked the "Spider-totem" concept, without loving it -- at least where Peter is concerned (Ezekiel is another matter because he definitely has totemic powers, which is fine with me). Either way, I think it made for some good comics in the short term. See, the thing is, I'm not exactly big into Spidey. I was as a kid, same with Batman (I think I'll chalk that it to being in love with their respective 90's cartoons), and while he never personally gelled with me as I got older, I still probably know more about him than I'd actually care to (and with Batman, I probably enjoy the other titles more than I do Detective and the main book)
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 7, 2023 16:34:29 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you on that at all. That's why I like it that the origin as shown in AF #15 is still absolutely sound if you want it to be. In fact, I'm not sure the "Spider-totem" thing has even been referenced that much outside of JMS' run, has it? I know Morlun has appeared elsewhere, but I'm not sure how connected he is to the totem concept these days. Personally, I quite liked the "Spider-totem" concept, without loving it -- at least where Peter is concerned (Ezekiel is another matter because he definitely has totemic powers, which is fine with me). Either way, I think it made for some good comics in the short term. See, the thing is, I'm not exactly big into Spidey. I was as a kid, same with Batman (I think I'll chalk that it to being in love with their respective 90's cartoons), and while he never personally gelled with me as I got older, I still probably know more about him than I'd actually care to (and with Batman, I probably enjoy the other titles more than I do Detective and the main book)
Yeah, I get that. Our tastes change as we grow older. Lord knows there are quite a few comic series that I thought were fantastic as a kid which are basically unreadable to me now. Spider-Man (1963-2007) has always been my favourite superhero though and, I'm happy to say, I can enjoy his classic comic exploits every bit as much as an adult as I did as a child (though obviously I'm getting something slightly different from them nowadays). |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 7, 2023 16:58:39 GMT -5
See, the thing is, I'm not exactly big into Spidey. I was as a kid, same with Batman (I think I'll chalk that it to being in love with their respective 90's cartoons), and while he never personally gelled with me as I got older, I still probably know more about him than I'd actually care to (and with Batman, I probably enjoy the other titles more than I do Detective and the main book)
Yeah, I get that. Our tastes change as we grow older. Lord knows there are quite a few comic series that I thought were fantastic as a kid which are basically unreadable to me now. Spider-Man (1963-2007) has always been my favourite superhero though and, I'm happy to say, I can enjoy his classic comic exploits every bit as much as an adult as I did as a child (though obviously I'm getting something slightly different from them nowadays). I'm the same with Captain America, been a fan since I was 8, grew until an even bigger fan when I was older and started actively reading the comics after watching The First Avenger
And I'm sure the people on this forum are starting to get a little tired of hearing about it at this point  |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 7, 2023 20:47:16 GMT -5
I think Morlun was the big bad in one of the Spider-verse events.. maybe the first one? I'm definitely not an expert.
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 8, 2023 9:34:10 GMT -5
Going through my old comics collection, I read the first issue of Liefeld and Loeb's take on Cap for the Heroes Reborn line.  And, blandness aside, I actually didn't mind it? I thought the idea incorporating elements of "We can remember it for you wholesale"/Total Recall was kind of interesting, but not enough to keep reading it |
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Post by Hoosier X on Aug 8, 2023 10:34:13 GMT -5
Going through my old comics collection, I read the first issue of Liefeld and Loeb's take on Cap for the Heroes Reborn line. And, blandness aside, I actually didn't mind it? I thought the idea incorporating elements of "We can remember it for you wholesale"/Total Recall was kind of interesting, but not enough to keep reading it MY EYES! IT BURNS!! |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 8, 2023 10:40:56 GMT -5
Going through my old comics collection, I read the first issue of Liefeld and Loeb's take on Cap for the Heroes Reborn line. And, blandness aside, I actually didn't mind it? I thought the idea incorporating elements of "We can remember it for you wholesale"/Total Recall was kind of interesting, but not enough to keep reading it MY EYES! IT BURNS!! Oh, the artwork is pretty friggin' terrible. But with Liefeld, that kind of goes without saying |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 8, 2023 12:58:14 GMT -5
Poor Rob... He exerts himself drawing feet, and this is all the thanks he gets?  |
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Post by MDG on Aug 8, 2023 13:27:37 GMT -5
Poor Rob... He exerts himself drawing feet, and this is all the thanks he gets? It's tempting to rank on Liefeld fans, but then I remember, when I was 13, I was really, really into Peter Max. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 8, 2023 15:57:40 GMT -5
Poor Rob... He exerts himself drawing feet, and this is all the thanks he gets? It's tempting to rank on Liefeld fans, but then I remember, when I was 13, I was really, really into Peter Max. What's wrong with liking Peter Max?
Cei-U! I summon the groovy vibes, man!
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