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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 1, 2024 9:33:53 GMT -5
Excellent write-up on these issues. I believe that Lorna and Alex would have gone on to be main cast members had the book continued bevond #66. They were recurring supporting characters, but #65 establishes them as X-Men proper. Too bad they didn't get in on the action in #66. They would be further neglected in the re-print years, where they only made one co-starring appearance in an issue of Hulk before being kidnapped by the Secret Empire and not joining the X-Men in any guest appearances until Giant-Size. The Siegel Angel story provides a little continuity hiccup since it's canon. Angel shows up in his ugly canary-with-suspenders costume and his father is killed... but in the pages of X-Men #60, where he ditches the costume for his Avenging Angel get-up, Cyclops makes a comment about what Warren's father is paying taxes for. I adore Adams' art in this run, and two of my favourite sequences involve Beast and Iceman: the first is when Beast is knocked out of the building and Iceman saves him, the second is when the two of them go up against the new Sentinels while Trask is gushing over their adaptability to mutant powers on TV. First time the Sentinels actually look menacing. Scott didn't know about Warren's father dying... Warren got upset at the comment off camera and Scott apologized (Candy Southern told me about it one time). You can send my no prize by email  |
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Post by Batflunkie on Dec 1, 2024 10:17:38 GMT -5
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Post by spoon on Dec 1, 2024 10:38:45 GMT -5
Excellent write-up on these issues. I believe that Lorna and Alex would have gone on to be main cast members had the book continued bevond #66. They were recurring supporting characters, but #65 establishes them as X-Men proper. Too bad they didn't get in on the action in #66. They would be further neglected in the re-print years, where they only made one co-starring appearance in an issue of Hulk before being kidnapped by the Secret Empire and not joining the X-Men in any guest appearances until Giant-Size. Thanks. Cancelled series spark my curiosity about when the decision was made and what the future plans were. I gotta check the X-Men Companion to see if that comes up in any interviews. Incredible Hulk #150 is one of my favorite X-Men appearances during the reprint era because we get to see Alex and Lorna. Herb Trimpe & John Severin do a great job illustrating Havok's costume. It's also one of the issues that actually moves the characters forward. Lots of other appearances are regressions (e.g., going back to the old costumes, not featuring Alex & Lorna). Nice catch. This time I read the Angel story after X-Men #66 because that's where it was in the Epic Collection. But it's slotted earlier in Marvel Masterworks and might fall even earlier based on both Angel's costume and the appearance by Agent Duncan. But of course, that would make Cyclops's comments about Warren's already dead dad incredibly callous. I'm curious about the backstory of Jerry Siegel writing an Angel story that actually kills off a character, but then having the story shelved for three years. Apparently, there's an article in the magazine Back Issue about the Angel story, so maybe I'll read that. Such great work. |
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Post by spoon on Dec 1, 2024 13:20:55 GMT -5
Excellent write-up on these issues. I believe that Lorna and Alex would have gone on to be main cast members had the book continued bevond #66. They were recurring supporting characters, but #65 establishes them as X-Men proper. Too bad they didn't get in on the action in #66. They would be further neglected in the re-print years, where they only made one co-starring appearance in an issue of Hulk before being kidnapped by the Secret Empire and not joining the X-Men in any guest appearances until Giant-Size. The Siegel Angel story provides a little continuity hiccup since it's canon. Angel shows up in his ugly canary-with-suspenders costume and his father is killed... but in the pages of X-Men #60, where he ditches the costume for his Avenging Angel get-up, Cyclops makes a comment about what Warren's father is paying taxes for. I adore Adams' art in this run, and two of my favourite sequences involve Beast and Iceman: the first is when Beast is knocked out of the building and Iceman saves him, the second is when the two of them go up against the new Sentinels while Trask is gushing over their adaptability to mutant powers on TV. First time the Sentinels actually look menacing. Scott didn't know about Warren's father dying... Warren got upset at the comment off camera and Scott apologized (Candy Southern told me about it one time). You can send my no prize by email Scott hid the existence of his brother from his teammates, so Warren hiding the death of his father would be par for the course. In X-Men #60, Jean notes that Warren's parents gave him a car, which he then lent to Scott and Jean. That's the last ugly costume issue, as Warren temporarily dons the Avenging Angel costume mid-issue. |
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Post by spoon on Dec 1, 2024 13:41:47 GMT -5
I read Legion of Super-Heroes #269-272. It's a three-parter featuring the Fatal Five, followed an issue with Blok's origin. The three-parter picks up a plot thread from #253-254, as the mysterious Dark Man who gave the League of Super-Assassins their power is also the mastermind between the Fatal Five's new plot, who keeps messing with Tharok's head. It's definitely above average for this period. I like Legion stories with recurring adversaries. Also, Blok was the one member of the Super-Assassins who seemed conflicted in the prior story. His change of heart to help the Legion may not have been entirely unexpected, although I say that as someone who was too young to read LOSH before Blok was a member. I like Blok's origin story in which he joins the Legion as well. It does diverge from the impression given by #253-254 though, as it turns out that he alone among the Super-Assassins has natural powers rather than powers artificially bestowed by the Dark Man.
There is also a Dial H for Hero preview in LOSH #272. All I can say is dial C for Corny. I figured I'd give it a try, and it lived down to my prior expectations.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 1, 2024 19:24:01 GMT -5
Been reading "Guardians Of The Galaxy Epic Collection Volume 1" (Marvel Super-Heroes #18, Marvel Two-In-One #4-#5, Giant-Size Defenders #5, and Defenders #26), most of which I've surprisingly never read before and kind of wanted to save myself from until I bought this collection physically. And, tbh, I'm kind of glad that I waited. Have always loved the original Guardians, particularly Vance because he's such a big Captain America fan. I thought Marvel Super-Heroes #18 was excellent and was amazed that the property basically laid dormant for five years until Gerber brought them back. I was mainly interested to see what Gerber did with the title because I don't think I've ever read anything by him that was particularly science fiction focused unless you count "Star Waugh" from HTD #22 and #23. He does a good job with it, but I was waiting for him to inject a little bit of that "absurd weirdness" that is his hallmark and I got it towards the end of Defenders #26. I think my take away from all this (aside from the bonkers, but very real threat of Aerosol totally screwing with the Ozone layer) is that Killraven is fully a part of the Marvel timeline. I can't express the sheer amount of joy on my face when I saw the Martian tri-pods on page 11 And you know... 2099 can totally fit in that time line... just a bit later than the actual year 2099, maybe more like 2199 |
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Post by berkley on Dec 1, 2024 19:36:49 GMT -5
Excellent question, as both artists were still active at the time. Lots of potential reasons -neither may have wanted to commit to the regular schedule and grind of doing a monthly or bi-monthly book, the art was already done for the portfolio at a pace they set, not one a periodical's deadline required -it's a lot more work to do a story page than a pin up but the page rate is the same, so again neither may have wanted to do it -as established artists, their page rates may have been too high to allow for a book with that expected sales level to be profitable long term, since the art was already done and paid for by the company producing the portfolio, Marvel may have only had to pay reprint rates rather than page rates to include them in the mag both were professionals and while they may have liked Kull, they looked at it as a job not "a chance to do Kull" and it may not have been an appealing job from their perspective for any number of reasons. A professional's perspective on working on a potential title is likely vastly different than a fan's perspective, but many fans have a sort of tunnel vision when it comes to that perspective and never look at anything from anything other than that fan perspective. -M
As so often, I think you're dragging in your personal bête noir of fan privilege - or, in this case, "tunnel vision" - to a discussion in which it is largely irrelevant. Idle comments or questions like "I wonder why someone didn't try to get the Severins to do another Kull series?" are meant more as conversation starters than as serious comments or criticisms. Obviously there are all kinds of reasons it didn't happen. For one thing, John Severin rarely worked as a regular artist or inker on any comics at all after Kull; for another, Marie Severin seems to have been locked into her rôle as jack of all trades in the Marvel art dept and thus she as well rarely worked on any series as a regular artist after Kull; for a third, the Kull character was never anywhere near as popular as Conan, so there probably wasn't a huge incentive from Marvel's perspective, though I'm glad they kept trying, off and on, through the years.
But so what? I wouldn't dream of self-censoring harmless comments or questions such as the above for any such considerations, so you can expect to continue to hear me say from time to time things like, "Gee, it's too bad BWS didn't have a longer run on Conan", even though I'm well aware that was never going to happen because of how he felt about his relations with Marvel and the industry in general; or "boy, I sure wish Steranko had drawn more stories instead of doing mostly covers", even though etc, etc.
I think it's utterly ridiculous to stigmatise such idle chatter as "tunnel vision" or "fan privilege" or whatever else you like to call it.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Dec 1, 2024 19:42:09 GMT -5
Lots of potential reasons -neither may have wanted to commit to the regular schedule and grind of doing a monthly or bi-monthly book, the art was already done for the portfolio at a pace they set, not one a periodical's deadline required -it's a lot more work to do a story page than a pin up but the page rate is the same, so again neither may have wanted to do it -as established artists, their page rates may have been too high to allow for a book with that expected sales level to be profitable long term, since the art was already done and paid for by the company producing the portfolio, Marvel may have only had to pay reprint rates rather than page rates to include them in the mag both were professionals and while they may have liked Kull, they looked at it as a job not "a chance to do Kull" and it may not have been an appealing job from their perspective for any number of reasons. A professional's perspective on working on a potential title is likely vastly different than a fan's perspective, but many fans have a sort of tunnel vision when it comes to that perspective and never look at anything from anything other than that fan perspective. -M As so often, I think you're dragging in your personal bête noir of fan privilege - or, in this case, "tunnel vision" - to a discussion in which it is largely irrelevant. Idle comments or questions like "I wonder why someone didn't try to get the Severins to do another Kull series?" are meant more as conversation starters than as serious comments or criticisms. Obviously there are all kinds of reasons it didn't happen. For one thing, John Severin rarely worked as a regular artist or inker on any comics at all after Kull; for another, Marie Severin seems to have been locked into her rôle as jack of all trades in the Marvel art dept and thus she as well rarely worked on any series as a regular artist after Kull; for a third, the Kull character was never anywhere near as popular as Conan, so there probably wasn't a huge incentive from Marvel's perspective, though I'm glad they kept trying, off and on, through the years. But so what? I wouldn't dream of self-censoring harmless comments or questions such as the above for any such considerations, so you can expect to continue to hear me say from time to time things like, "Gee, it's too bad BWS didn't have a longer run on Conan", even though I'm well aware that was never going to happen because of how he felt about his relations with Marvel and the industry in general; or "boy, I sure wish Steranko had drawn more stories instead of doing mostly covers", even though etc, etc.
I think it's utterly ridiculous to stigmatise such idle chatter as "tunnel vision" or "fan privilege" or whatever else you like to call it.
tunnel vision and such because fans rarely if ever take into consideration the business and professional realities of making comics and trat it like it's some dream job where people can do whatever they want creatively without regards of the wants/desires of the rightsholders and the realities of having to make ends meet and support oneself and one's family by doing it. Often times the questions they ask come form a place where those aren't the realities comic creators have to deal with in every decision they make in their chosen career, and if they were taken into consideration many of those questions wouldn't even be raised because the answers lie there and not in some rose-colored view of comics where those things don't exist or apply. If those realities are taken into consideration, then there really is no conversation to be had that is germane to the reality in the business of comics, so are really not conversation starters in my estimation. -M |
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Post by Batflunkie on Dec 1, 2024 19:52:27 GMT -5
Been reading "Guardians Of The Galaxy Epic Collection Volume 1" (Marvel Super-Heroes #18, Marvel Two-In-One #4-#5, Giant-Size Defenders #5, and Defenders #26), most of which I've surprisingly never read before and kind of wanted to save myself from until I bought this collection physically. And, tbh, I'm kind of glad that I waited. Have always loved the original Guardians, particularly Vance because he's such a big Captain America fan. I thought Marvel Super-Heroes #18 was excellent and was amazed that the property basically laid dormant for five years until Gerber brought them back. I was mainly interested to see what Gerber did with the title because I don't think I've ever read anything by him that was particularly science fiction focused unless you count "Star Waugh" from HTD #22 and #23. He does a good job with it, but I was waiting for him to inject a little bit of that "absurd weirdness" that is his hallmark and I got it towards the end of Defenders #26. I think my take away from all this (aside from the bonkers, but very real threat of Aerosol totally screwing with the Ozone layer) is that Killraven is fully a part of the Marvel timeline. I can't express the sheer amount of joy on my face when I saw the Martian tri-pods on page 11 And you know... 2099 can totally fit in that time line... just a bit later than the actual year 2099, maybe more like 2199 There would had to have been a TON of re-building though post-Martian Invasion and a huge leap in technology because during Killraven's time, stuff really didn't advance passed the 70's |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 1, 2024 19:56:57 GMT -5
yeah, but they are talking about fighting over the Moon, so it seems there was a big tech leap... or it could even be later.. they are taking about the fall of the technolords in the 26th century, plenty of time in there... make it 2299 if you prefer |
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Post by berkley on Dec 1, 2024 21:31:43 GMT -5
As so often, I think you're dragging in your personal bête noir of fan privilege - or, in this case, "tunnel vision" - to a discussion in which it is largely irrelevant. Idle comments or questions like "I wonder why someone didn't try to get the Severins to do another Kull series?" are meant more as conversation starters than as serious comments or criticisms. Obviously there are all kinds of reasons it didn't happen. For one thing, John Severin rarely worked as a regular artist or inker on any comics at all after Kull; for another, Marie Severin seems to have been locked into her rôle as jack of all trades in the Marvel art dept and thus she as well rarely worked on any series as a regular artist after Kull; for a third, the Kull character was never anywhere near as popular as Conan, so there probably wasn't a huge incentive from Marvel's perspective, though I'm glad they kept trying, off and on, through the years. But so what? I wouldn't dream of self-censoring harmless comments or questions such as the above for any such considerations, so you can expect to continue to hear me say from time to time things like, "Gee, it's too bad BWS didn't have a longer run on Conan", even though I'm well aware that was never going to happen because of how he felt about his relations with Marvel and the industry in general; or "boy, I sure wish Steranko had drawn more stories instead of doing mostly covers", even though etc, etc.
I think it's utterly ridiculous to stigmatise such idle chatter as "tunnel vision" or "fan privilege" or whatever else you like to call it.
tunnel vision and such because fans rarely if ever take into consideration the business and professional realities of making comics and trat it like it's some dream job where people can do whatever they want creatively without regards of the wants/desires of the rightsholders and the realities of having to make ends meet and support oneself and one's family by doing it. Often times the questions they ask come form a place where those aren't the realities comic creators have to deal with in every decision they make in their chosen career, and if they were taken into consideration many of those questions wouldn't even be raised because the answers lie there and not in some rose-colored view of comics where those things don't exist or apply. If those realities are taken into consideration, then there really is no conversation to be had that is germane to the reality in the business of comics, so are really not conversation starters in my estimation. -M
Hmm, well I can see continuing this particular conversation is pointless so I'll leave it at that.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 2, 2024 14:24:22 GMT -5
That ozone layer image haunts me to this day. Every time the weather forecast tells us about the UV index I think of it, and cry a little inside. How easily we get used to dystopia. (Luckily, the ozone problem will likely be solved in a couple of centuries thanks to that rare case of countries working together to solve a global crisis, the Montreal protocols, but it's not the only major problem we face). |
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Post by commond on Dec 3, 2024 8:08:38 GMT -5
Finished Castle Waiting Vol. 2: The Definitive Edition. I finished the first volume in a week but took a much more leisurely pace with the second volume. Not because there was a drop off in quality, but more the fact that I knew there wasn't anymore after the volume was done and wanted to savor the book for a little longer. There are still a lot of questions left unanswered, but if Medley is unable to pen another tale, she has left us with some of the most charming cartooning you'll ever encounter and one of the warmest comics you'll ever read.
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Post by gryffin on Dec 3, 2024 10:03:06 GMT -5
Can someone help me to remember an X-Men issue? I thought it was the wedding of Scott and Jean, but now I'm not so sure because I think it was either Lobdell or Liefeld. Definitely it was a lot of outdoor scenery with characters walking around and brooding in the fall. So maybe it was the wedding issue? But I don't know why I remember it being one of the other 90s artists that people seem to dislike so much.
Oh yeah haha, I remember really liking it, which is why I'm trying to find it.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Dec 3, 2024 13:26:43 GMT -5
Can someone help me to remember an X-Men issue? I thought it was the wedding of Scott and Jean, but now I'm not so sure because I think it was either Lobdell or Liefeld. Definitely it was a lot of outdoor scenery with characters walking around and brooding in the fall. So maybe it was the wedding issue? But I don't know why I remember it being one of the other 90s artists that people seem to dislike so much. Oh yeah haha, I remember really liking it, which is why I'm trying to find it. I think it's X-Men 308 |
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