Roquefort Raider
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Modus omnibus in rebus
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 14, 2015 12:09:38 GMT -5
Nope, I haven't seen that one yet, but it sounds pretty bad. I just finished that story with Odin being kidnapped by aliens last week and thought it was pretty bad, but then Conway redeems himself with the next couple of stories, so it was quickly forgiven. You never see anyone write about Thor from say... 180 to 280 when the Celestials Saga begins. It is like a 10 year dark age for the title. But I will agree... Gerry's stories had a nice high adventure feel to them blending myth and Sci-Fi and leaving earth-based superhero vs. supervillain stuff alone for the most part. The Buscema art was usually pretty decent, especially when Jim Mooney did the finishes. I think Odin was an organizer of union labor for a time around 215 - 220 (?). It is indeed as crazy as it sounds. That's when I started reading Thor, so I'm certainly biased; but the 180-210 run was very enjoyable, what with Hela claiming Thor's life, with the Mangog totally trashing Asgard, and with the one true Ragnarok story being adapted in issue 200. I also enjoyed the temporary return of Jane Foster and the Egyptian gods. The title back then switched from the cosmic to the mundane and back, as it had during the best days of Lee and Kirby, and it kept the mag fresh. What eventually made it less interesting (to me) was when it started recycling storylines. Mangog threatens Asgard (again), Odin is abducted by aliens (again), the twilight of the gods approaches (again)... it's really the Celestials saga and the adaptation of Wagner's ring leading to issue #300 that made the book fun once more.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 14, 2015 20:02:44 GMT -5
I agree the Epic line is great... I've been buying quite a few of them as well. I don't mind the skipping around so much, but I don't really understand why they're doing collections for 80s stuff that can be gotten rather easily. I wish they'd focus on stuff that's harder to get. A lot of the "harder to get stuff" has been collected many times and many ways, so is actually easier to get than 80s stuff which has never been collected before. Part of their stated goal with the Epic line was to get stuff that had never been collected before into collected editions to make them available again. Remember, back issue sales are not Marvel's concern, they want to be able to sell you the stuff in their back catalog directly so they can make money on it rather than you buying it via ebay, conventions or lcs back issue bins. With Masterworks having already covered most series through the 60s and into the 70s, the Essentials covering most of the 70s in major titles, the 80s and 90s stuff is the stuff that has yet to be collected for the most part, so they seem to be alternating between volumes of first time collected material and re-collected editions of older stuff that has gone out of print as they move forward with the Epic line. The 75th anniversary of Marvel was a good marketing push for the volume 1s of all the major series, but the focus has been on more recent uncollected stuff on most of the other releases so far. -M That makes sense, though I'm still baffled that they haven't released a Hulk volume yet. The Masterwork's still haven't gotten to the iconic Sal Buscema years, an era that's woefully underrepresented in collected editions. The era from 1975-1985 was arguably the era when the Hulk was at his zenith in popularity. I know that some of the Mantlo stuff has been collected, but I'd love to see the Len Wein/Roger Stern/Sal Buscema run next.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 14, 2015 23:15:37 GMT -5
Plus, most of the Masterworks titles are out of print, so you can only buy them on the secondary market... if the Masterworks were readily available, I'd agree, but the fact of the matter is, they're not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 23:18:30 GMT -5
Plus, most of the Masterworks titles are out of print, so you can only buy them on the secondary market... if the Masterworks were readily available, I'd agree, but the fact of the matter is, they're not. But they have since released most of those as omnibi, and continue to do so and put those back in print soon after they go out of print, so they are in print somewhere else form Marvel already. -M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 14, 2015 23:20:41 GMT -5
I didn't think the Omnibus stayed in print long, either.. the guys on the CBR forum that used to be the classic section complain about it all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 23:23:44 GMT -5
I didn't think the Omnibus stayed in print long, either.. the guys on the CBR forum that used to be the classic section complain about it all the time. They went out of print and Marvel put new printings of the key ones out-FF, Spidey, etc. collecting the early Silver Age stuff. The more odd omnibi they let go out of print (like West Coast Avengers or Atlantis Attacks, etc.) but I assume that stuff will get Epic treatments eventually. -M
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Post by Spike-X on Jun 15, 2015 3:18:38 GMT -5
I finished Lee/Kirby FF up to #50 last night. They really start to hit their stride after Reed and Sue get married, but there were a few times that the truly awful sexism had me literally facepalming.
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Confessor
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Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jun 15, 2015 6:41:25 GMT -5
I finished Lee/Kirby FF up to #50 last night. They really start to hit their stride after Reed and Sue get married, but there were a few times that the truly awful sexism had me literally facepalming. Yeah, the sexism that Sue had to endure in those old FF stories is almost unbelievable from a modern viewpoint. But, it's also part of the charm of those old books in some small way. Like someone clever once said, "the past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 15, 2015 7:08:26 GMT -5
There's an interesting psychology going on there. It seems that it's simply not okay for Sue to "show up" the men or get physical when they're present, but she seems to be written as being more proactive when alone or in the presence of other women. In FF #10 she takes out "Dr. Doom" with a crack to the back of the head with a vase.
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Post by Spike-X on Jun 15, 2015 16:44:44 GMT -5
OMG - Sue Storm is Samantha Stevens!
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jun 17, 2015 4:06:44 GMT -5
Ive just finished reading Frank Millers Daredevil run from 158 (?)-191 which I probably havent read since I sold mine in '91. I have always considered these to be a high point for comics, one of the greats. However, while mostly good to great, there are too many mediocre patches, and the passing of the art to Janson, to call it truly great.
I also NOW think Miller should be vilified for setting Ninjas loose on the Marvelverse, those suckers be everydamnwhere now.
They are very interesting from a historic aspect too. The Punisher meeting DD for the first time being a great example of this.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jun 17, 2015 4:17:43 GMT -5
Reading through Iron Man from the Issues after the booze story, Im struck by how terrible many of these books are. I loved Iron Man by Romita and Layton (and Michelinie) in the 70s and 80s. The art team were the first(I had encountered) to make him look metallic, owing mainly to Bob Layton, but when he took over the pencils his inexperience became clear, stiff figures abounded. I stuck with the book for another 5 yearsor so, until the awful Steve Mitchell inks drove me off.
What I didnt recall were the truly terrible stories they forced Tony through. To make things worse they foisted some terrible foes on him too.
I cant even read them all, Ive had to start skipping some so there goes the goal of a consecutive read-thru.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jun 17, 2015 4:38:37 GMT -5
Another major run I am endevouring is Fantastic Four from the Byrne era (230s). I love the FF. This is despite comments Ive made about the parenting skills of Reed and Sue. I love the Thing, one of my choices for the greatest hero of alltime. I love John Byrne of the 80s. Ina geek way, nota wana have his babies way...too hairy.
This is another run which I have always remembered as elevating the books around it, an awesome example of the genre. NOW Not so much. Still good, great in places, but lacking something. Maybe its the wordy writing, very stiff in places, still a lot of patronisation of Sue, and full of awkward explanations. Then theres the odd way they talk to each other, using code names where much more informal forms are more realistic.
I also have to admit to being keen to get to the DeFalco/Ryan run after. Much like the DeFalco/Frenz combo on Thor, it may out Kirby its direct predecessor...or not.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 19, 2015 18:54:23 GMT -5
So, I was finishing up the Epic Thor vol. 1, and I came across the 1st story with the Grey Gargoyle. On one page, he says the transformation lasts a minute.. the VERY NEXT panel, he changes it to an hour... bad editing, I guess.
A few pages later.. he gets Thor, and that lasts 1 day (24 hours).. gotta love the silver age.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 21, 2015 21:52:57 GMT -5
I'm in the midst of rereading, for the first time since it was originally published, the nine-issue run of the Howard the Duck magazine. It's pretty much as I remembered it: great art by the likes of Gene Colan, Mike Golden and John Buscema, awful scripts by Bill Mantlo. Mantlo's ham-fisted, tin-eared attempts at parody are painfully contrived and completely miss the point of Steve Gerber's previous run. Not that any writer should be handcuffed by his predecessor's work, you understand, but it should at least capture the spirit and tone of the premise. The worst story so far has been the monumentally terrible "A Christmas for Carol," an anti-nuclear screed thinly disguised as a protest against the commercialization of Christmas. Scarcely better is "The Tomb of Duckula," in which Howard meets Dracula and Mantlo takes a few nasty and undeserved shots at marv Wolfman via his four-color alter-ego Harold H. Harold. Even the most promising premises, like Howard's return to Duckworld, are spoiled by Mantlo's penchant for the most puerile and obvious choices for parody. The best part of the title is Lynn Graeme and Ned Sonntag's weird and wonderful "Street Peeple" back-up, a nostalgic and very funny look at the hippie era that seems to have wondered in from the undergrounds. It's only the prospect of reading further episodes of Street Peeple that have me looking forward to reading the rest of this run.
Cei-U! Waaaaughh!
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