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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 21, 2015 22:15:36 GMT -5
I'm in the midst of rereading, for the first time since it was originally published, the nine-issue run of the Howard the Duck magazine. It's pretty much as I remembered it: great art by the likes of Gene Colan, Mike Golden and John Buscema, awful scripts by Bill Mantlo. Mantlo's ham-fisted, tin-eared attempts at parody are painfully contrived and completely miss the point of Steve Gerber's previous run. Not that any writer should be handcuffed by his predecessor's work, you understand, but it should at least capture the spirit and tone of the premise. The worst story so far has been the monumentally terrible "A Christmas for Carol," an anti-nuclear screed thinly disguised as a protest against the commercialization of Christmas. Scarcely better is "The Tomb of Duckula," in which Howard meets Dracula and Mantlo takes a few nasty and undeserved shots at marv Wolfman via his four-color alter-ego Harold H. Harold. Even the most promising premises, like Howard's return to Duckworld, are spoiled by Mantlo's penchant for the most puerile and obvious choices for parody. The best part of the title is Lynn Graeme and Ned Sonntag's weird and wonderful "Street Peeple" back-up, a nostalgic and very funny look at the hippie era that seems to have wondered in from the undergrounds. It's only the prospect of reading further episodes of Street Peeple that have me looking forward to reading the rest of this run. Cei-U! Waaaaughh! I read every issue when it first came out and I remember thinking it was OK. Nowhere near as good as the color comic. I don't think I liked it as humor comic but I thought it was fine as an adventure comic continuing the exploits of Howard and Beverly. But truthfully I just don't remember it very well. (I do remember thinking that the transformation of Harold H. Harold into a vampire was pretty stupid.)
"Street Peeple" was pretty cool though.
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Post by berkley on Jun 22, 2015 0:16:34 GMT -5
I'm in the midst of rereading, for the first time since it was originally published, the nine-issue run of the Howard the Duck magazine. It's pretty much as I remembered it: great art by the likes of Gene Colan, Mike Golden and John Buscema, awful scripts by Bill Mantlo. Mantlo's ham-fisted, tin-eared attempts at parody are painfully contrived and completely miss the point of Steve Gerber's previous run. Not that any writer should be handcuffed by his predecessor's work, you understand, but it should at least capture the spirit and tone of the premise. The worst story so far has been the monumentally terrible "A Christmas for Carol," an anti-nuclear screed thinly disguised as a protest against the commercialization of Christmas. Scarcely better is "The Tomb of Duckula," in which Howard meets Dracula and Mantlo takes a few nasty and undeserved shots at marv Wolfman via his four-color alter-ego Harold H. Harold. Even the most promising premises, like Howard's return to Duckworld, are spoiled by Mantlo's penchant for the most puerile and obvious choices for parody. The best part of the title is Lynn Graeme and Ned Sonntag's weird and wonderful "Street Peeple" back-up, a nostalgic and very funny look at the hippie era that seems to have wondered in from the undergrounds. It's only the prospect of reading further episodes of Street Peeple that have me looking forward to reading the rest of this run. Cei-U! Waaaaughh! I've avoided the Mantlo HtD like the plague all these years, as I am the new Howard series Marvel is currently putting out, but the satire on Marv Wolfman is interesting. Assuming this took place after Wolfman had left Marvel for DC, was this a Shooter-approved attack against a disgruntled former employee? Mantlo was never a favourite of mine, but he came up with a few good stories over the years - the Killraven fill-in he did with Keith Giffen stands out in my memory.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,082
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Post by Confessor on Jun 22, 2015 5:30:17 GMT -5
The best part of the title is Lynn Graeme and Ned Sonntag's weird and wonderful "Street Peeple" back-up, a nostalgic and very funny look at the hippie era that seems to have wondered in from the undergrounds. This sounds intriguing.
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Post by The Captain on Jun 22, 2015 11:55:12 GMT -5
After reading Incredible Hulk #103 to 121 and Annual #1, I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely don't understand what the point of that series was at the time. Every issue is pretty much the same: Hulk runs from Ross and Talbot, comes across some other super-powered individual(s), gets into a fight because they look at him wrong, whines that Hulk has no friends (maybe if he stopped punching everyone he encounters, that might not be the case), then winds up running from Ross and Talbot again.
The very early issues at least feature nice artwork from Marie Severin, but Herb Trimpe's initial work on the book is not good at all. Stan seems to be mailing in most of the issues, including two issues in a row where he uses the exact same phrasing from Hulk to describe why Hulk is busting up some equipment ("Hulk hates machines. Machines always hurt the Hulk."). Some of the plot ideas are ridiculous, such as the Mandarin teaming up with Sandman or the Leader convincing Ross and Talbot that because he was declared legally dead (even though he is very much alive), he can't be arrested for his previous crimes.
I don't have too many more issues of Hulk between this point and the 140's, so maybe they will pick up when I get around to reading them in the future, but I can say that this batch was sorely disappointing.
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Post by MDG on Jun 22, 2015 11:59:53 GMT -5
...The best part of the title is Lynn Graeme and Ned Sonntag's weird and wonderful "Street Peeple" back-up, a nostalgic and very funny look at the hippie era that seems to have wondered in from the undergrounds. It's only the prospect of reading further episodes of Street Peeple that have me looking forward to reading the rest of this run. Ned Sonntag is a name I haven't thought of for years. I knew his work through Smacky Duck in Apple Pie magazine and a couple other things. Got a quick sketch from him at a con in '75 or so, Been re-reading Spain's work in Cruisin' with the Hound and My True Story. Excellent stuff--can always find more to appreciate with each re-reading. Also re-read (or, more accurately, re-looked-through) The Mad Peck Studios book from the late 80s. People here might know him best for designing Les Daniel's excellent history COMIX!, but he also did a lot of other things, most notably record reviews in comic form for Creem and other rock magazines. The swipe-heavy strips have a handmade DIY quality I really miss. He got some flak from the record companies for providing mix tape recipes (though not selling tapes)
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 22, 2015 12:57:33 GMT -5
After reading Incredible Hulk #103 to 121 and Annual #1, I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely don't understand what the point of that series was at the time. Every issue is pretty much the same: Hulk runs from Ross and Talbot, comes across some other super-powered individual(s), gets into a fight because they look at him wrong, whines that Hulk has no friends (maybe if he stopped punching everyone he encounters, that might not be the case), then winds up running from Ross and Talbot again. The very early issues at least feature nice artwork from Marie Severin, but Herb Trimpe's initial work on the book is not good at all. Stan seems to be mailing in most of the issues, including two issues in a row where he uses the exact same phrasing from Hulk to describe why Hulk is busting up some equipment ("Hulk hates machines. Machines always hurt the Hulk."). Some of the plot ideas are ridiculous, such as the Mandarin teaming up with Sandman or the Leader convincing Ross and Talbot that because he was declared legally dead (even though he is very much alive), he can't be arrested for his previous crimes. I don't have too many more issues of Hulk between this point and the 140's, so maybe they will pick up when I get around to reading them in the future, but I can say that this batch was sorely disappointing. I love these comics, partly because they are so crazy! My favorite Hulk story ever is the three-part story with the Leader in Hulk #115 to #117.
As for that ridiculous business with Ross, Talbot and the Leader, you should either get used to ridiculous stuff like that or just stop reading Bronze Age Hulk. Not just the Leader. Pretty much everything about the Hulk-Busters is totally ridiculous. But ... though I think it's ridiculous, I don't think it's unrealistic for a government project to be so luxuriously funded despite being horribly inefficient and destructive. Look at the Vietnam War, the War on Terror, the Drug War. I sometimes wonder if the Hulk-Busters concept was purposefully a very subtle comment on the Vietnam conflict.
Overall I think the series was a little better later in the 1970s, but I still consider the Hulk series from the late 1960s and early 1970s to be great comics.
The issue where Mandarin teams up with the Sandman is one of the few issues I haven't read. I really want to read it though!
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Post by The Captain on Jun 22, 2015 16:22:18 GMT -5
After reading Incredible Hulk #103 to 121 and Annual #1, I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely don't understand what the point of that series was at the time. Every issue is pretty much the same: Hulk runs from Ross and Talbot, comes across some other super-powered individual(s), gets into a fight because they look at him wrong, whines that Hulk has no friends (maybe if he stopped punching everyone he encounters, that might not be the case), then winds up running from Ross and Talbot again. The very early issues at least feature nice artwork from Marie Severin, but Herb Trimpe's initial work on the book is not good at all. Stan seems to be mailing in most of the issues, including two issues in a row where he uses the exact same phrasing from Hulk to describe why Hulk is busting up some equipment ("Hulk hates machines. Machines always hurt the Hulk."). Some of the plot ideas are ridiculous, such as the Mandarin teaming up with Sandman or the Leader convincing Ross and Talbot that because he was declared legally dead (even though he is very much alive), he can't be arrested for his previous crimes. I don't have too many more issues of Hulk between this point and the 140's, so maybe they will pick up when I get around to reading them in the future, but I can say that this batch was sorely disappointing. I love these comics, partly because they are so crazy! My favorite Hulk story ever is the three-part story with the Leader in Hulk #115 to #117.
As for that ridiculous business with Ross, Talbot and the Leader, you should either get used to ridiculous stuff like that or just stop reading Bronze Age Hulk. Not just the Leader. Pretty much everything about the Hulk-Busters is totally ridiculous. But ... though I think it's ridiculous, I don't think it's unrealistic for a government project to be so luxuriously funded despite being horribly inefficient and destructive. Look at the Vietnam War, the War on Terror, the Drug War. I sometimes wonder if the Hulk-Busters concept was purposefully a very subtle comment on the Vietnam conflict.
Overall I think the series was a little better later in the 1970s, but I still consider the Hulk series from the late 1960s and early 1970s to be great comics.
The issue where Mandarin teams up with the Sandman is one of the few issues I haven't read. I really want to read it though!
I actually think the Hulkbusters concept is solid, and it gives the book some focus. Where it's at now is that the military just keeps happening upon the Hulk and they send men and vehicles after him. I'd hate to be General Ross trying to explain why he keeps throwing planes and tanks at Hulk even though they keep getting torn apart. I'm going to soldier on through the series at some point, because I know Trimpe's art gets better over time and some of the other issues I've perused from later periods seem to be more sensibly plotted than just an unending string of random foes for Hulk to punch, kick, and leap away from.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 22, 2015 18:19:29 GMT -5
I'm going to soldier on through the series at some point, because I know Trimpe's art gets better over time and some of the other issues I've perused from later periods seem to be more sensibly plotted than just an unending string of random foes for Hulk to punch, kick, and leap away from. I love the whole Trimpe era. One of the things I like about it is the inkers. Trimpe never gets stale, and part of that is that there are so many inkers and they don't stick around for more than a year or so. Dan Adkins, Sam Grainger, John Severin, Jack Abel, Joe Staton ... and more! I don't think I could pick a favorite! Maybe I can't be objective about those issues you didn't like. I was 11 or 12 when I first started reading the Hulk reprints in Marvel Super-Heroes (my first issue reprinted Tales to Astonish #99) and I liked it even more than the regular Hulk series (which I started reading right after Trimpe left). I still have all those beat-up issues of Marvel Super-Heroes, which I collected up to the issue that reprinted Hulk #111. (I quit buying reprint comics (except Marvel Tales) because I started buying more new comics.) I love those crazy stories. Come on! The Rhino! The Missing Link! The Mandarin! Ka-Zar! Umbu the Unliving! The Galaxy Master! Yeah, keep reading. There's a couple of really good Leader stories in your immediate future, and eventually you'll get to stuff like the Moby-Dick homage, the Severin-inked Valkyrie story, the trial of the Hulk ... and Harlan Ellison! There's also a crazy crazy Kang appearance where Hulk meets the Phantom Eagle!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 22, 2015 18:51:10 GMT -5
The Leader has such a nice, kind face. I can see why General Ross and Major Talbot were always so eager to trust him and let him use the facilities.
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Post by The Captain on Jun 22, 2015 20:38:15 GMT -5
The Leader has such a nice, kind face. I can see why General Ross and Major Talbot were always so eager to trust him and let him use the facilities. That and the fact The Leader and Major Talbot have matching mustaches.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,947
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Post by Crimebuster on Jun 22, 2015 22:47:33 GMT -5
After reading Incredible Hulk #103 to 121 and Annual #1, I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely don't understand what the point of that series was at the time. Yesssssss. Embrace your hatred.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 1:41:40 GMT -5
Reading through a bunch of stuff-finished off the first volume of the Conan newspaper strips by Thomas and Chan (with Big John B doing the first few weeks). Decent Conan fare from Thomas, some of it adapted from non-Conan Howard stories-in particular the werewolf tale is adapted from Wolfshead. Also read Beyond the Black River by REH to get more of my Conan fix as I work my way through the Howard originals. Not quite classic, but first written in '74, I finally read the Dark Horse adaptation of George Lucas' original rough draft screenplay of Star Wars (was playing around exploring my new Marvel Unlimited subscription so read through those). It was more interesting as a curiosity than enjoyable as a story in and of itself. Been on a Phantom kick of late as well, so read the Peter David/Joe Orlando mini form DC from 1988 and have started on the follow up ongoing from '89 as well. Solid enjoyable stuff. Also continuing my way through Don McGregor's Sabre and just started the last arc of that series. Finally dove into Dixon and Truman's Airboy series from '86 reading the first dozen issues and quite enjoyed them. Have also been in a Doc Strange mood, so picked up where I left off in the Essentials (and then on Unlimited to get what I could in color) to read through the '68 solo series and the follow ups in Hulk and Namor leading to the launch of Defenders. Just started up the Marvel Premiere run with the Stan Lee Barry Smith issue as well. Been itching to dive into a long Thor read as well, so checked out the first 2 JiM stories on Unlimited as well.
My reading has been kind of all over the place, but I am just going with the flow reading what I enjoy and am in the mood for rather than trying to trudge through stuff that I want to read to have read. I'll get back to stuff I was in the middle of soon,but right now enjoying what I am reading through so it is what it is.
-M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 23, 2015 13:46:27 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the Dixon Airboy series when I read the 1st two trades a bit back... looking forward to getting the 3rd!
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Post by paulie on Jun 23, 2015 15:20:24 GMT -5
After reading Incredible Hulk #103 to 121 and Annual #1, I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely don't understand what the point of that series was at the time. Every issue is pretty much the same: Hulk runs from Ross and Talbot, comes across some other super-powered individual(s), gets into a fight because they look at him wrong, whines that Hulk has no friends (maybe if he stopped punching everyone he encounters, that might not be the case), then winds up running from Ross and Talbot again. The very early issues at least feature nice artwork from Marie Severin, but Herb Trimpe's initial work on the book is not good at all. Stan seems to be mailing in most of the issues, including two issues in a row where he uses the exact same phrasing from Hulk to describe why Hulk is busting up some equipment ("Hulk hates machines. Machines always hurt the Hulk."). Some of the plot ideas are ridiculous, such as the Mandarin teaming up with Sandman or the Leader convincing Ross and Talbot that because he was declared legally dead (even though he is very much alive), he can't be arrested for his previous crimes. I don't have too many more issues of Hulk between this point and the 140's, so maybe they will pick up when I get around to reading them in the future, but I can say that this batch was sorely disappointing. I seem to recall enjoying these more than you but it has been a looooong time since I have read them. I particularly enjoy the issues with Ka-Zar (109-110) where the Savage Land endures not a small amount of deforestation. But yes... it is all 'samey'.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 27, 2015 23:13:26 GMT -5
I don't know why I do this to myself.
I went to the library yesterday and picked up some more reprint collections. I'm still reading the Thor Epic Collection that covers Thor #154 to #174 (I read the origin of Galactus yesterday!). And I picked up Marvel Masterworks: Avengers, Volume 6, (reprints Avengers #51 to #58, and I'm really looking for ward to these!) and I also got the second volume of the Mod Wonder Woman reprint series.
But I also got Showcase Presents: Wonder Woman, Volume 2. As much as I like Mouse Man, these early 1960s Wonder Woman stories get really old really fast. I had the third volume a few months ago and it was a it of a chore. There are a few stories I really liked. I even like Wonder Girl! (But Mer-Boy and Bird-Boy get used way too much.) But those Wonder Family stories strain even my well-known high tolerance for Silver Age silliness.
I decided to slog through it over the next few weeks and see if there are a couple of good ones I haven't read. I flipped through it last night, and guess what? The first appearance of Wonder Tot is the fifth story in this volume!
Still, it's worth it for the Ross Andru/Mike Esposito art.
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