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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 27, 2015 23:21:11 GMT -5
After reading Incredible Hulk #103 to 121 and Annual #1, I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely don't understand what the point of that series was at the time. Every issue is pretty much the same: Hulk runs from Ross and Talbot, comes across some other super-powered individual(s), gets into a fight because they look at him wrong, whines that Hulk has no friends (maybe if he stopped punching everyone he encounters, that might not be the case), then winds up running from Ross and Talbot again. The very early issues at least feature nice artwork from Marie Severin, but Herb Trimpe's initial work on the book is not good at all. Stan seems to be mailing in most of the issues, including two issues in a row where he uses the exact same phrasing from Hulk to describe why Hulk is busting up some equipment ("Hulk hates machines. Machines always hurt the Hulk."). Some of the plot ideas are ridiculous, such as the Mandarin teaming up with Sandman or the Leader convincing Ross and Talbot that because he was declared legally dead (even though he is very much alive), he can't be arrested for his previous crimes. I don't have too many more issues of Hulk between this point and the 140's, so maybe they will pick up when I get around to reading them in the future, but I can say that this batch was sorely disappointing. I seem to recall enjoying these more than you but it has been a looooong time since I have read them. I particularly enjoy the issues with Ka-Zar (109-110) where the Savage Land endures not a small amount of deforestation. But yes... it is all 'samey'. It feels that way because it's being read one after the other. It's a different experience when each issue is read 30 days apart.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jun 28, 2015 6:31:16 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the Dixon Airboy series when I read the 1st two trades a bit back... looking forward to getting the 3rd! I know it isnt classic, and it sure as heck aint like the 80s version, but do yourself a favour and try the new Airboy, damn its good.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 28, 2015 9:42:40 GMT -5
It's in the pile... probably will read it tomorrow
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sacorn
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by sacorn on Jun 30, 2015 20:33:08 GMT -5
Been pulling out some old boxes anticipating a purge and stumbled across the first half dozen issues of Peter Bagge's Hate, so I gave them another read. I've read them a few times now and each time I find them as fun as when they first came out, with Bagge being spot on with dialogue and embracing the slacker mentality.
I do wonder if they are a product of their time and my generation, as I'm not sure if kids like my teenage son would find them as amusing as I do.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 30, 2015 22:02:36 GMT -5
It's in the pile... probably will read it tomorrow So, Robinson's Airboy... that was one messed up comic! Very curious where he's going with it.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 1, 2015 9:23:06 GMT -5
I read Batman: Blink on the train today... it's a trade of two stories by MCDuffie/Semekis.. what a great character! It's a shame no one else has used him... I'd defintely grab whatever comic they put him in.
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Post by sabongero on Jul 1, 2015 17:40:33 GMT -5
Batman: The Killing Joke by Alan Moore. Re-reading it in one sitting, it's just amazing dialogue penned by Alan Moore. If you were into highlighting passages, this book's dialogue box would be covered almost in yellow highlighting pen.
Ambiguous ending. We somehow thought that perhaps Batman killed the Joker, but then at the time the Joker was still alive in the DC universe. So we didn't think so. We thought he might have killed him because Alan Moore meant for it to be a one shot deal from a different universe in DC. But then, Barbara was paralyzed for years, so it's a no for that aspect.
I am still thinking what happened at the end.
What do you guys think?
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 2, 2015 0:07:35 GMT -5
I've been reading Marvel Masterworks: Avengers, Volume Six, and there are some good stories in this volume!
I read Avengers #54 and #55 today, and I think this is my new favorite Masters of Evil appearance! (Not really. Under Siege is REALLY GOOD!)
I really love the line-ups of the two opposing groups! The Avengers are: Black Panther, Hawkeye, Goliath and the Wasp. I love 'em all! I actually kind of prefer when the Avengers are a little underpowered. Make no mistake, they are all skilled and talented and resourceful, but you add Iron Man and/or Thor, and everybody else becomes practically useless.
And the Masters of Evil are: The Melter, Whirlwind, Radioactive Man and Klaw. Also, the Black Knight, but it's not the real Black Knight, it's his nephew! And he wants to help the Avengers. The Masters of Evil are led by the Crimson Cowl, who turns out to be ... Jarvis! (And then it turns out that it's really Ultron-5, but BOYOBOY, the whole Jarvis thing is pretty dumb and my brain is working overtime to rationalize the Jarvis parts of the story because aside from the stupid Jarvis material, I love this two-parter so much!
I love these guys! The Melter and Radioactive Man are both pretty lame, but it was still the Silver Age, so they hadn't worn out their usefulness as yet, and I think they are well-written here. The fights against the individual Avengers are believable because, without Thor and Iron Man, these two groups are pretty well-matched. For example, I believe Radioactive Man can take out Goliath and that Whirlwind can beat the Black Panther. (The fight between Klaw and the Wasp is kind of silly. He knocks her out by closing a door as she flies into it. Sheesh!)
The art is amazing! John Buscema inked by George Klein!
Anyway, it ends with the Masters of Evil defeated and Jarvis says he's sorry for selling the Avengers' security secrets to the Masters of Evil, but they forgive him and then they meet Captain America to go back in time to watch Bucky die, but the Wasp falls asleep at the controls and that makes reality change so that the new Avengers fight the original Avengers, and Black Panther gets paired against the Hulk.
And then they meet the Vision.
This era is one of my favorites for Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,081
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Post by Confessor on Jul 2, 2015 6:09:37 GMT -5
Batman: The Killing Joke by Alan Moore. Re-reading it in one sitting, it's just amazing dialogue penned by Alan Moore. If you were into highlighting passages, this book's dialogue box would be covered almost in yellow highlighting pen. Ambiguous ending. We somehow thought that perhaps Batman killed the Joker, but then at the time the Joker was still alive in the DC universe. So we didn't think so. We thought he might have killed him because Alan Moore meant for it to be a one shot deal from a different universe in DC. But then, Barbara was paralyzed for years, so it's a no for that aspect. I am still thinking what happened at the end. What do you guys think? The way I read that ending for the first time in 1988, as a naive 16 year old, is exactly the same way it reads to to me now as a cynical 40-something. Batman took the Joker into police custody and he was returned to Arkham Asylum. Simple. Let me reproduce the final page before I get started with why I think that... I really don't buy into the whole "Batman killed the Joker at the ending" theory at all. The artwork on the last page certainly doesn't support that conclusion, in my view. What happens is that the two characters share a moment of madness at the end -- although I've always had a sense that Batman empathises a little with his foe here, realising that, actually, the Joker is a victim too, a victim of tragic circumstance and his own insanity (much like the Batman himself). Batman places his arm on the Joker's shoulder (NOT around his neck, look at the artwork), the pair laugh hysterically at the Joker's joke, but also at the bizarrely macabre states of their respective lives and their interactions together, as the wail of an approaching police car increases. The final three panels first show the pair stood together, but the laughing has stopped, as the enemies silently look at each other, with the realisation that their interaction in that moment has changed nothing. Then a little time elapses before the next panel (as evidenced by some of the patch of earth on the ground having become submerged in the rain water) and they are both gone from the spot where they stood just before, with the joker having been put into the patrol vehicle and the Batman having vanished into the night, presumably. Then, in the last panel the reflection of the headlight is gone (which is itself an allusion to the torch beam meantioned in the joke that the Joker just told Batman). But notice that the patch of earth visible in the preceding two panels is gone, covered up by the incessant rain, showing us that a lot of time -- hours probably -- has passed between the final panel and the one preceding it. The impression to me has always been that nothing is really resolved between the two of them and the Batman and the Joker will continue to dance their mad, tragic, lethal dance for many, many years to come. Anyway, I agree with you that the Killing Joke is superb and one of Alan Moore's greatest achievements as a writer.
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Post by MDG on Jul 2, 2015 9:07:36 GMT -5
Batman places his arm on the Joker's shoulder (NOT around his neck, look at the artwork), the pair laugh hysterically at the Joker's joke, but also at the bizarrely macabre states of their respective lives and their interactions together, as the wail of an approaching police car increases.... Anyway, I agree with you that the Killing Joke is superb and one of Alan Moore's greatest achievements as a writer. I haven't read it since a couple years after it came out, but I know a couple people who felt that having Batman share a joke with the Joker was wrong. It might make sense at some time, but after the specific things the Joker did in this story, it didn't feel right. And i can't really disagree with that.
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Post by paulie on Jul 2, 2015 9:22:42 GMT -5
The art is amazing! John Buscema inked by George Klein! Nuff Said!
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,947
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 2, 2015 9:29:12 GMT -5
The Masters of Evil are led by the Crimson Cowl, who turns out to be ... Jarvis! (And then it turns out that it's really Ultron-5, but BOYOBOY, the whole Jarvis thing is pretty dumb and my brain is working overtime to rationalize the Jarvis parts of the story because aside from the stupid Jarvis material, I love this two-parter so much! This was a comic fan in-joke from Roy Thomas, who was making fun of the then-recent storyline in Batman where Alfred died, then returned to life as a supervillain named The Outsider who was bent on destroying Batman.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 2, 2015 10:17:52 GMT -5
The Masters of Evil are led by the Crimson Cowl, who turns out to be ... Jarvis! (And then it turns out that it's really Ultron-5, but BOYOBOY, the whole Jarvis thing is pretty dumb and my brain is working overtime to rationalize the Jarvis parts of the story because aside from the stupid Jarvis material, I love this two-parter so much! This was a comic fan in-joke from Roy Thomas, who was making fun of the then-recent storyline in Batman where Alfred died, then returned to life as a supervillain named The Outsider who was bent on destroying Batman. I was just about to say that the Outsider storyline was the worst Batman story ever, but then I remembered The Widening Gyre.
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Post by Farrar on Jul 2, 2015 10:28:05 GMT -5
The art is amazing! John Buscema inked by George Klein! Nuff Said! ITA! The Buscema-Klein art in those issues is superb. I know Buscema said his preferred inkers--besides himself--were Sal, Giacoia, Adkins, and of course Palmer, but George Klein was always my favorite inker for Big John (and for Curt Swan too). IMO Klein didn't overpower or smother Buscema's linework, but smoothed it out somewhat while not removing the "bumps" and idiosyncracies so it didn't look bland (which is what I feel happened when Sinnott inked Buscema, IMHO).
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Post by MDG on Jul 2, 2015 10:48:31 GMT -5
This was a comic fan in-joke from Roy Thomas, who was making fun of the then-recent storyline in Batman where Alfred died, then returned to life as a supervillain named The Outsider who was bent on destroying Batman. I was just about to say that the Outsider storyline was the worst Batman story ever, but then I remembered The Widening Gyre. I'd heard somewhere that it wasn't planned that Alfred was going to be the Outsider, but they needed to bring him back for the TV show. ITA! The Buscema-Klein art in those issues is superb. I know Buscema said his preferred inkers--besides himself--were Sal, Giacoia, Adkins, and of course Palmer, but George Klein was always my favorite inker for Big John (and for Curt Swan too). IMO Klein didn't overpower or smother Buscema's linework, but smoothed it out somewhat while not removing the "bumps" and idiosyncracies so it didn't look bland (which is what I feel happened when Sinnott inked Buscema, IMHO). I think in the 70s Marvel assigned Sinnott to give certain books a kind of "house style."
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