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Post by tingramretro on May 18, 2016 16:40:40 GMT -5
I think the problem with Dredd, as opposed to most of 2000 AD's strips, is that there simply isn't much you can do with him as a character. He can't develop, he can't change, he's basically one dimensional. The real star of Dredd is always the city itself and the loonies who live there.
A lot of people use that same arguement for Gotham city and Batman and it makes sense when you think about it. But I think there are times where Dredd can be an interesting character, but only when he's given the proper treatment and attention. For instance, there's this one particular serial that sticks out in my mind; It's about Dredd having to rescue his niece, Vera (Rico's Daughter), from an escaped convict with a vendetta against Dredd. Afterwards, he coldly distances himself from Vera for the sole purpose of ensuring that she doesn't go through the emotional torment if he died in the line of duty. He may be a genetic clone of the Chief Judge that created the right-wing utopia of a judicial system that's in place in the Mega-Cities, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have his own identity or his own sense of "right" from "wrong". There's more to Dredd than a lot of people give him credit for, stuff that goes beyond just the surface level
Also, it just doesn't make any logical sense for the lead to be a bit player in his own story, especially when it's even named after him That would be Vienna, not Vera, but I take your point. However, it's a comparatively recent development as far as Dredd's character is concerned. Carlos Ezquerra was asked in an interview a couple of years ago if he thought Dredd was becoming softer as a character. He replied that he felt that perhaps John Wagner was mellowing wth age and that "Dredd is John".
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Post by Batflunkie on May 18, 2016 17:00:30 GMT -5
Dredd has never struck me as "soft", just well-reasoned, taking into account all the facts and factors of any given situation. He's a by-product what he was taught and brought up to believe, sort like the religious type but with lingering doubts
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Post by Rob Allen on May 18, 2016 17:02:38 GMT -5
Also, it just doesn't make any logical sense for the lead to be a bit player in his own story, especially when it's even named after him Will Eisner did that sort of thing with The Spirit decades before Judge Dredd, and people seemed to like the results.
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Post by tingramretro on May 18, 2016 17:05:16 GMT -5
Dredd has never struck me as "soft", just well-reasoned, taking into account all the facts and factors of any given situation. He's a by-product what he was taught and brought up to believe, sort like the religious type but with lingering doubts Doubts? There's no room for doubt. The law is the law, creep.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 18, 2016 17:10:05 GMT -5
Doubts? There's no room for doubt. The law is the law, creep. Need I bring up the "Democracy" story arc and how Dredd was all for it in favor of it?
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Post by Spike-X on May 19, 2016 3:51:34 GMT -5
I'm honestly not sure what is so awful about so-called "political correctness." People can still say awful racist, sexist things. But in the universal PC culture, other people will point it out and criticize it, and the racists will have to - shudder - face the fact that other people have the same rights as they do to comment. Unless we're going to start making laws against saying things that would offend racists. (Not to mention the blatant hypocrisy involved among conservatives who are continually offended about lots of things, yet no one ever calls them out for their own political correctness. Because it's not politically correct to say "political correctness" when a conservative is offended.) 'Politically incorrect' is just the politically correct term for 'asshole'.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 19, 2016 7:32:18 GMT -5
I don't think political correctness is all bad, but like overly seasoned food it's going to taste awful unless it's competently prepared by someone who knows what they're doing. It's not quite at the levels of perverse absurditiy that Orwell warned they would be in Nineteen-Eighty-Four, but it's getting there
Words like "triggered" and "priviledge" are being used and abused by people who have no real idea of what they really "mean" and are taking the power away from those words and people and situations that are in dire need of them. "Old man took me book and now me can't speak" level shit
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Post by Hoosier X on May 19, 2016 8:48:54 GMT -5
The abuse of "trigger" and "privilege" isn't anywhere near as bad as the abuse of "political correctness."
Many conservatives deflect legitimate and much-deserved criticism by saying things like "I don't have time for all this political correctness." It's becomes a crutch and a tired rhetorical device for conservatives to beat their opponents with. And their supporters eat it up.
"Political correctness" has become a useless term. If you try to define it by the way it's used most often, it means "terms and phrases used by the opponents of reactionary extremists that those extremists don't like and would rather not discuss in a useful or constructive manner."
Some examples of the use and abuse of "political correctness":
People that were upset that Jimmy Olsen is black on "Supergirl." It was all about "political correctness."
Donald Trump almost every time he talks. When his terms of abuse and insults directed at women were brought up, he didn't respond in any useful manner, He invoked the anti-PC card and thus felt himself absolved of any accusation of misogyny.
Most of the GOP presidential candidates played the anti-PC card a lot too. Ben Carson played it when asked about the dumb stories he told about his past.
And like I've mentioned, conservatives never get called on their own moments of political correctness. They have their own perpetual outrage machine, but it's not politically correct to call it "political correctness" when conservatives are offended.
I'm curious about what you mean by the use and abuse of "privilege" and "trigger." I'm not saying it doesn't happen. From my own observations, I don't think the abuse of terms like "privilege" and "trigger" is anywhere near the scale of the epidemic of the attempts to shut down discussion by playing the anti-PC card.
I know that many reactionaries get riled by phrases like "mansplaining" or "whitesplaining." (It's another example of conservatives being politically correct when it suits them.) And I'm always amused at the way that the explanation about why "mansplaining" is an offensive word sounds just like a standard mansplanation.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 19, 2016 10:38:31 GMT -5
I'm curious about what you mean by the use and abuse of "privilege" and "trigger." I'm not saying it doesn't happen. From my own observations, I don't think the abuse of terms like "privilege" and "trigger" is anywhere near the scale of the epidemic of the attempts to shut down discussion by playing the anti-PC card. Oh that's fine. If it hasn't already been apparent enough already, I don't mind sharing my opinion with those willing to listen. I'll be the first to admit, that I don't have real world experience seeing these words abused. I tend to exist in my own "fabricated reality" on the internet because I'm sort of a hermit IRL. Most of the people that I see using "privilege" and "trigger" are the 20 something "special snowflakes" on Tumblr who's parent's obviously didn't care enough that the "rotten fruits of their loins" are entitled little assholes who think that the world owes them something by the sheer fact of simply being alive. I'm twenty six and they give people in my age group a really bad reputation, especially when I'm so desperately trying to make it in the world on my own. They represent this "new wave of liberalism" that I'm honestly kind of scared of, one that "identifies more with the products they consume than they do their own nationalities" to quote William Gibson. Now I'm a fairly level headed person, even if I can be brash or even brazen sometimes, but I always go out of my way to listen to what both sides have to say. At first I thought I was republican, then I thought I was non-partisan, now I'm under the impression that I'm something of a "conservative" liberal, with no real ties to either party. They're both equally bad in my opinion, but also have so much potiential to do good, that it kind of angers me. Especially when a third option is practically non-existent, so we're stuck with the "Douche" and the "Turd Sandwich" to borrow a comparison from South Park Look, I might have very little experience when it comes to the world, it's people, and the politics that govern it that sometimes border on insanity. But I think we owe it to ourselves and to each other to try and see where the "opposing perspective" is coming from. And with the threat of nuclear war upon us yet again by morons with a god complex that never learn, I think we need "friendship" more than ever
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Post by Hoosier X on May 19, 2016 11:03:52 GMT -5
I thought that was a particularly bad episode of South Park. John Kerry was so much better than George W. Bush. Not perfect, by any means.
The Douche vs. Turd Sandwich comparison is ridiculous. It's more like a piece of stale bread vs. a Turd Sandwich. The first is not what you want, but at least you can eat it. The second is a disaster.
My evidence? George W. Bush's disastrous two terms as president.
"South Park" is very funny sometimes. But I don't think it's a particularly good forum for developing a political philosophy.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 19, 2016 11:16:26 GMT -5
Look, I might have very little experience when it comes to the world, it's people, and the politics that govern it that sometimes border on insanity. But I think we owe it to ourselves and to each other to try and see where the "opposing perspective" is coming from. And with the threat of nuclear war upon us yet again by morons with a god complex that never learn, I think we need "friendship" more than ever I agree. My best friend is a Trump supporter. He's also a rabid gun nut who has given his brain to NRA propaganda. And I have told him exactly that. He sends me text messages full of NRA gibberish and "our n*gger president" and Islamophobic filth. He calls me a naïve tool of the Liberal Establishment Media (and worse) all the time. I call him a committed gun hobbyist, and it makes him lose his temper But he's still my friend. I don't respond to most of his inane gibberish. I call him in a few days and we talk about the latest super-hero movie. I apologize if I've said anything that makes you think I'm being unfriendly. I'm just fed up with the flagrant abuse of the term "politically correct" and the selective way it's applied. So I comment, and I provide examples of what I'm talking about. I may raise a few hackles but I hope it gives people something to think about.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 19, 2016 11:26:49 GMT -5
At the risk of remaining horribly off topic, it is a phrase, that if it ever had meaning, has now completely lost all meaning. Essentially it now means, "I don't like being called out for being an asshole so I'm going to say that you're being politically correct. That'll learn ya."
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 19, 2016 11:33:10 GMT -5
I like the Citizen Kang episode of the Simpsons when it comes to politics.
Kang: "It's true we are aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It's a two party system. You have to vote for one of us." Onlooker: "Well I believe I'll vote for a third party candidate." Kodos: "Go ahead throw your vote away!" *They both laugh maniacally*
As to your friend Hoosier, I had to pull strings to get time off on the 4th of July weekend for my wife's family reunion because her brother in law will be there. And he sounds like your friend a lot. Expect he can't find anything to be civil about with her because of their opposing political views. So I am literally going there as a buffer or mental body guard so she doesn't have to just be continuingly insulted for her beliefs if the subject comes up. Personally I mostly don't care either way, and have felt as though (from an old enough age to understand politics around Clinton's first term) that Matt Groening in that satire isn't too far off, so I try not to judge either side to hard or take sides. Politics, and how most people handle them, really feels like the black plague or an alien invasion.
Then the episode ends with ...
Marge: "I don't understand why we have to build a ray gun to aim at a planet I've never even heard of." Homer: "Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
:-)
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Post by Batflunkie on May 19, 2016 11:56:37 GMT -5
I apologize if I've said anything that makes you think I'm being unfriendly. I'm just fed up with the flagrant abuse of the term "politically correct" and the selective way it's applied. So I comment, and I provide examples of what I'm talking about. I may raise a few hackles but I hope it gives people something to think about. You seemed fairly even tempered to me and I'm sorry if my post made me come off like a sarcastic asshole. The internet can only go so far in conveying the raw emotions of people, that's why some guy with nothing better to do came up with emoticons and what have you. You know, stuff that's really productive to the plight of the human condition
But yes, challenging why people "think" a certain way is important. Helps us keep our wits about ourselves
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Post by Hoosier X on May 19, 2016 12:38:17 GMT -5
I like the Citizen Kang episode of the Simpsons when it comes to politics. Kang: "It's true we are aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It's a two party system. You have to vote for one of us." Onlooker: "Well I believe I'll vote for a third party candidate." Kodos: "Go ahead throw your vote away!" *They both laugh maniacally* As to your friend Hoosier, I had to pull strings to get time off on the 4th of July weekend for my wife's family reunion because her brother in law will be there. And he sounds like your friend a lot. Expect he can't find anything to be civil about with her because of their opposing political views. So I am literally going there as a buffer or mental body guard so she doesn't have to just be continuingly insulted for her beliefs if the subject comes up. Personally I mostly don't care either way, and have felt as though (from an old enough age to understand politics around Clinton's first term) that Matt Groening in that satire isn't too far off, so I try not to judge either side to hard or take sides. Politics, and how most people handle them, really feels like the black plague or an alien invasion. Then the episode ends with ... Marge: "I don't understand why we have to build a ray gun to aim at a planet I've never even heard of." Homer: "Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos." :-) That's a pretty funny episode and not nearly as mean-spirited as the South Park episode. But, no, the parties are not the same. If people don't want to get involved, I'm not going to fault them for that. It can be a dirty business. But when you're not involved, you're not really particularly well-informed. (And if I'm wrong about that in your specific case, I apologize.) I hope you don't take that as an insult. As far as I can tell, it's just a statement of fact. Did you watch any of the GOP debates? I did. I watched most of them. I watched most of the "kids table" events as well. It was absolutely terrifying. It was a perfect opportunity for the conservative movement to make its case, and they failed miserably. From Lindsey Graham's statement that he knows Iran can't be trusted because he worked at a pool hall to Donald Trump playing the anti-PC card at every opportunity to Ben Carson justifying the bombing deaths of children in the Middle East by saying that children understand that invasive brain surgery is necessary to the Marcobot's endless "Blame Obama" loop. I've been reading conservative opinions in the newspaper for almost forty years. I worked as a copy editor at a conservative newspaper and read almost the whole paper five days a week for seven years. I also used to read books by conservatives to give them the full chance to make their case. I read a couple of Rush Limbaugh's books. I read Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fasicsm. (I haven't read one for a while because life's too short for this hateful gibberish. I did go see Expelled, the movie hosted by Ben Stein about creationism. More hateful and misleading gibberish.) The conservative movement has had numerous opportunities to convince me that it's not totally horrible and vile. It has failed every time. The Democrats certainly aren't perfect but at least you don't have to be a total nutter to run for office as a Democrat. I hope this helps to demonstrate why I'm not particularly impressed by arguments that involve invoking a TV show to justify thinking the parties are just the same. I think it might be more persuasive to lead with something a Democrat or Republican actually said or did. (I know that's probably not the most diplomatic way to express this particular sentiment. That's why I put the smiley. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just a bit weary of arguments that "the Democrats and Republicans are the same" that don't offer any evidence except TV show references and the statement that "Democrats and Republicans are the same." Just ask a transgendered person trying to use the toilet in North Carolina and you might get an earful. Or a currently married same-sex couple.)
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