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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 20, 2016 6:27:58 GMT -5
Hey bor, I felt the same way. On one hand, many of Ennis' books contain unbelievable over the top violence and offensive content and you have to know at it going in. But on the other hand, is book contained many disrespectful things about heaven and Jesus and that can be off putting. Back in the 90's I had a huge run of this title but sold it off without blinking.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Sept 20, 2016 8:47:33 GMT -5
Hey bor, I felt the same way. On one hand, many of Ennis' books contain unbelievable over the top violence and offensive content and you have to know at it going in. But on the other hand, is book contained many disrespectful things about heaven and Jesus and that can be off putting. Back in the 90's I had a huge run of this title but sold it off without blinking. Hey mate, so to start with I just want you to know Im not intending to attack you so I hope this doesnt come across like that at all, I just want to respond to the comments about Preacher, and you were the last poster so you got choosed. This is all going to sound like me defending the book, and while it is to some extent I surely dont profess to be in any way qualified to do so, morally or intellectually (but righteous indignation... oh hell yeah... nah just pullin yuh leg). Im hoping its going to seem more like my reasons for liking it. You guys talk about the violence, so for me, remembering this was in the mid 90s, it was close to the first book Id seen of its kind. Not afraid to tell a story with real violence(no 30 page slugfests over New York here folks), with real consequences of said violence(ie death and/or dismemberment), and with violent people who seemed closer to the drunken assholes I knew than to Lex Luthor in his bionic suit. Sure some was over the top, but remember the rest of the stuff we read folks, how freakin over the top is that. I got to be an adult, with adulter entertainment, AND I got to read a comic too... no brainer right there. I have no problems with profanity, well other than having to rein it in a bit here to keep the kiddies and faint of heart safe, and liked that Garth populated his book with all manner of...alternative life styles...hmm. On to the sticky issue of whether or not its disrespectful to Christianity. If thats your take on it, thats cool mate, Im not here to say youre wrong, and you sure as heck are entitled to your opinion, AND I do see how people would jump to that conclusion. I just dont agree. Im no Christian scholar, or expert, hell to most of youse Im probably not even Christian, but I have faith. The depictions of heaven, hell, angels, and demons are neither here nor there for me but I know you Yanks are all a bit nuts anyway so I wont talk about that ( shhh dont tell Iccy ) However I see no reason why a person shouldnt be entitled to question his faith and/or his God should they need to, so Jesse seeking God to hold him to task for the way he had gone about things...I get it. Isnt one of the most common questions to people of faith something like "Why would God take my Daddy and leave me alone?". His journey was essentially a quest for answers to those very same questions. I know, the way he goes about it aint right by a lotta folk, and he smokes a lot, and sexes a lot, and drinks like a ... texan, BUT hes following that damned John Wayne creed aint he ? Do the right thing. Thats the other thing I loved about this book, that whole cowboy vibe, literally with the Duke there, but also with his being haunted by the ghost of his father in so much of what he tries to do. How the heck do you live up to that ? That drive to do right by your woman, your best friend, to not let folk down, to never give upon your ideals(how freakin much does he sound like Peter Parker now ?). All those years of John Wayne movies and Louis Lamour novels, I lived and breathed this shit as a kid and its speaking to me in such a big way. All about being the type of man I never could be, but damn it, I could strive. Its also that ache of a question. Would my father have approved of me? Would he even like me? Well I rambled again, but its .. yikes...01.45am here right now and my brains fogging up, hope you havent taken offense where none was meant, I just wanted , well to talk a bit more about how I see this book. Peace.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 20, 2016 9:03:13 GMT -5
Pak, I like the cut of your gib. I appreciate the respect in which you gave your opinion. I can see that the book has two possible issues that can cause people to stay away.
The first is his interpretation of the God of the Bible. I'm a Christian and I believe that the Bible is Gods message to us and true. Many people don't believe it and that's okay. But making a great relative to Jesus that's retarded is pretty terrible. Again, this is up to the reader how he or she feels about it. I didn't really like it.
The other issue is the violence. From what I see every book that Ennis has written has this type of action. The Boys has unbelievable violence that makes this book pale in comparison. But hey, to each his own.
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Post by Spike-X on Sept 20, 2016 15:44:33 GMT -5
Pak, I like the cut of your gib. I appreciate the respect in which you gave your opinion. I can see that the book has two possible issues that can cause people to stay away. The first is his interpretation of the God of the Bible. I'm a Christian and I believe that the Bible is Gods message to us and true. Many people don't believe it and that's okay. But making a great relative to Jesus that's retarded is pretty terrible. That's how inbreeding works, dude.
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Post by brutalis on Sept 20, 2016 16:26:25 GMT -5
And now for something completely different: with a week off read through the full Essential Spider-Woman #2. Mostly mediocre stories but gorgeously illustrated by Steve Leialoha. One of those types of books that never truly succeeded but was a mid level entertainer. it was slightly improving under the 10 or so issues by Chris Claremont where he began to redefine the character but he left and they chose to cancel and the Ann Nocenti issues truly ruined it for me. The final issue was only two halves of a story. the ist part finishing a story line from previous issues and then the last half to kill the main character, turning her into a ghost and having Magus wipe the memories of everyone she knew was insulting to me and i felt Jessica deserved a better ending. The entire series was a nice change of pace from the regular Marvel world and was nice while it lasted...
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RikerDonegal
Full Member
Most of the comics I'm reading at the moment are Marvels from 1982.
Posts: 128
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Post by RikerDonegal on Sept 23, 2016 10:37:16 GMT -5
And now for something completely different: with a week off read through the full Essential Spider-Woman #2. Mostly mediocre stories but gorgeously illustrated by Steve Leialoha. One of those types of books that never truly succeeded but was a mid level entertainer. it was slightly improving under the 10 or so issues by Chris Claremont where he began to redefine the character but he left and they chose to cancel and the Ann Nocenti issues truly ruined it for me. The final issue was only two halves of a story. the ist part finishing a story line from previous issues and then the last half to kill the main character, turning her into a ghost and having Magus wipe the memories of everyone she knew was insulting to me and i felt Jessica deserved a better ending. The entire series was a nice change of pace from the regular Marvel world and was nice while it lasted... I'm in the early stages of reading Spider-Woman at the moment. Up as far as #16 and enjoying what Mark Gruenwald is doing with the series (after a middle-of-the-road start under Marv Wolfman). I see I have Fleisher ahead of me, before getting to Claremont and Nocenti.
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Post by brutalis on Sept 23, 2016 11:52:42 GMT -5
Went home ill early from work yesterday so lay in bed after taking medication and finished reading the Jack Kirby portion of the Machine Man Collection. The Ten-For story was excellent and fast moving. It was fun seeing Machine Man at the Halloween party interacting with everyone and thinking his true face was still another piece of his costume. Typical Kirby in that a beautiful woman see's there is more to him than the outer shell. Also that she is helpful in goading him into action in response to his own depression and writing off of humanity as they have written him off. Once that ended Kirby was gearing up for the next big story only to be told the series was being cancelled as things slowed down immensely and seemed to begin to drag without a real goal. All still enjoyable nonetheless and weak Kirby will always trump nearly anything from anybody else. Next up this weekend is to follow the story into Incredible Hulk for its finish and then for dessert the Ditko artistic version of Mr.Stack.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 23, 2016 12:05:48 GMT -5
Went home ill early from work yesterday so lay in bed after taking medication and finished reading the Jack Kirby portion of the Machine Man Collection. The Ten-For story was excellent and fast moving. It was fun seeing Machine Man at the Halloween party interacting with everyone and thinking his true face was still another piece of his costume. Typical Kirby in that a beautiful woman see's there is more to him than the outer shell. Also that she is helpful in goading him into action in response to his own depression and writing off of humanity as they have written him off. Once that ended Kirby was gearing up for the next big story only to be told the series was being cancelled as things slowed down immensely and seemed to begin to drag without a real goal. All still enjoyable nonetheless and weak Kirby will always trump nearly anything from anybody else. Next up this weekend is to follow the story into Incredible Hulk for its finish and then for dessert the Ditko artistic version of Mr.Stack. I hope you like the Ditko more than I did FYI, if you head over to the series overview thread, I did a review there when i read what I expect is the same collection you're reading about a month ago.
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Post by brutalis on Sept 23, 2016 13:11:54 GMT -5
Went home ill early from work yesterday so lay in bed after taking medication and finished reading the Jack Kirby portion of the Machine Man Collection. The Ten-For story was excellent and fast moving. It was fun seeing Machine Man at the Halloween party interacting with everyone and thinking his true face was still another piece of his costume. Typical Kirby in that a beautiful woman see's there is more to him than the outer shell. Also that she is helpful in goading him into action in response to his own depression and writing off of humanity as they have written him off. Once that ended Kirby was gearing up for the next big story only to be told the series was being cancelled as things slowed down immensely and seemed to begin to drag without a real goal. All still enjoyable nonetheless and weak Kirby will always trump nearly anything from anybody else. Next up this weekend is to follow the story into Incredible Hulk for its finish and then for dessert the Ditko artistic version of Mr.Stack. I hope you like the Ditko more than I did FYI, if you head over to the series overview thread, I did a review there when i read what I expect is the same collection you're reading about a month ago. I bought and read these from the rack in the day. Already remember them as being fairly lackluster both in story and art. But it is Ditko and like Kirby i can enjoy a lesser story. I remember that they really de-powered Machine Man and had him resorting to having a junk yard mechanic doing repairs. i have known many mechanics but are they really going to be intelligent enough for a state of the art mechanical man with complicated parts with no manual?
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 24, 2016 10:28:39 GMT -5
I've been reading through my machine man collection and I got up to #15 last night. Solid Bronze Age storytelling. I only have #1 to #3 of the Kirby issues. I love these so much nowadays that it irks me that I quit getting Machine Man for a while. There was so much Marvel Kirby in the late 1970s, and I didn't really understand it a lot of the time. I have every issue of Black Panther and I only missed three or four issues of Kirby's Captain America. But I stopped buying Devil Dinosaur after #4 (I love those four issues! And I ordered the rest of the series off eBay recently. Just waiting for #5 right now) and I only bought one issue of The Eternals. But I was such a fan of Captain America and the Black Panther that I bought those despite my dislike for 1970s Marvel Kirby, and eventually that stuff grew on me. The Ditko took over on Machine Man and I bought every issue when it came out! I haven't read them for a long time but I'm really enjoying them. I especially liked the issue with Khan and the epic battle on the airship Xanadu. I also like the SUPER-AWKWARD way that Ditko draws the Thing! It's been a lot of fun! I also like the way that writer Marv Wolfman really captured the Ditko writing style with some of those overblown stereotypes among the supporting characters, especially among Aaron's co-workers at the insurance office. (And I love the way that you can tell from Aaron's facial expressions (or lack thereof) that his responses are being stated in the most cold and contemptuous way possible. That is a very badly run office, by the way, with too many people slacking off and being jerks for no reason. Management should have stepped in a long time ago. Unfortunately, it's just like most places where I've ever worked.)
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RikerDonegal
Full Member
Most of the comics I'm reading at the moment are Marvels from 1982.
Posts: 128
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Post by RikerDonegal on Sept 24, 2016 12:09:35 GMT -5
That is a very badly run office, by the way, with too many people slacking off and being jerks for no reason. Management should have stepped in a long time ago. Unfortunately, it's just like most places where I've ever worked.) LOL Yeah, it sure was!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 24, 2016 13:24:27 GMT -5
Superman #94
Another random issue from a lot of comics. Jurgens has Superman fighting Conduit, that is an actual friend of Kent when they were young in school. Now Conduit holds a grudge and is trying to kill Kent.
Meanwhile Star Labs is doing tests on Superman's body. I guess there's question that the Superman fighting Conduit is not the real Superman. As is insinuated as much in the final panel.
Did DC do a clone saga Superman story like Marvel did with Spidey? It would have been around the same time in 1994.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 24, 2016 13:39:53 GMT -5
I'm reading Sabre #1. Boy, did Mcgregor get paid by the word ?
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 24, 2016 17:45:44 GMT -5
I must have been freaking stupid when I was a kid! I bought the first four issues of Devil Dinosaur and then stopped. But these four issues are among the comics I carry with me wherever I go and I pull them out and read them every once in a while. I came across a dealer with #6 to #9 at a good price and decided to get them. And I realized I was only missing one issue - #5 - with the conclusion to #4, a story that ended with Moon Boy in the hands of weird tin-can aliens, and Devil teamed up with a couple of the hill people - White-Hairs and Stone-Hand - to stop the aliens that are terrorizing the valley. Devil gets an idea and leads them in the direction of a hill in the distance as White-Hairs seems to figure out what he's up to and approves. NEXT ISSUE! JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE ANTS! And that's where the story has been stuck for me for 35 years. So I ordered #5 a few days ago and I was hoping it would arrive by now. But no. I got #6 to #9 and decided to wait until I get #5. I usually don't worry too much about reading comics in order. I usually just read everything within a few days of getting it. But #5 should be here very soon. So I pulled out Devil Dinosaur #1 to #4 to read them once again. Devil Dinosaur is awesome! So much imagination and so much crazy action! And Kirby's dialogue works really well (for a change) because who knows if it's unrealistic for a furry primitive boy who rides around on the back of a bright red Tyrannosaurus rex to talk like that? Yeah, I was a real ding-dong to stop buying Devil Dinosaur. I'm thinking of looking at the releases for the same month that Devil Dinosaur #5 came out to jog my memory and remind me what I might have started buying in place of the adventures of the Devil-Beast, but I fear it might be painful.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 24, 2016 18:07:24 GMT -5
Yeah, it's too bad whatever happen to make Kirby stop Devil Dinosaur happened, it would have been great to see that world develop.
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