bor
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Post by bor on May 21, 2017 1:39:01 GMT -5
So the game came in the mail friday afternoon and Saturday I spend a whole lot of time playing it. Like, way to mich time. Something like 10-12 hours. I went for a run 8 in the morning and at 9 i started playing, only taking some short breaks to make food and stuff like that. Its been a long time since I have had the time or desire to play that much in one day but this weekend was one of my last in some time where I have nothing else to do and I am glad that was the case.
Its really a great game and I have not actually done that much actual story yet. I mostly have spent time looking for new towers and shrines and activating those. I really need to find some sort of upgrade to my armour/weapons but so far its been a lot of fun just running around and experimenting with the different powers. That beeing said, I dont think its one of the best ones ever. Its certaintly a great game, but there are other open world games out there, like skyrim, that gives you just as many if not more options.
What I do think this game does is provide a art style that is well done and while less realistic then something like Skyrim I think it feels, for lack of better words, prettier then that. Its a good game for sure. I have only played it a little on the wii u gamepad while watching the news, but I think it works just fine on that to.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on May 21, 2017 1:41:17 GMT -5
Speaking as someone who has played Elder Scrolls and Fallout, Breath of the Wild is a major improvement on both. No 3D open world I'm aware of has ever had anything close to the level of freedom BOTW offers. Every story quest can be done in any order or not at all. You can even skip all of it and go straight to the end boss. It makes games like Elder Scrolls and Witcher 3 seem linear in comparison.
The level of mobility is also a big departure. In terms of vertical freedom the only series that comes close is the Batman Arkham series, and that's it a single, smaller city.
Then there's the physics engine, which is far more advanced than any other open world game's physics. And that makes experimenting more enjoyable.
Other open world games give you the freedom to 'go anywhere' or to choose any class or to goof off instead of doing the main quest. But no game has offered the kind or level of freedom BOTW offers. No game comes close.
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bor
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Post by bor on May 21, 2017 1:56:40 GMT -5
Speaking as someone who has played Elder Scrolls and Fallout, Breath of the Wild is a major improvement on both. No 3D open world I'm aware of has ever had anything close to the level of freedom BOTW offers. Every story quest can be done in any order or not at all. You can even skip all of it and go straight to the end boss. It makes games like Elder Scrolls and Witcher 3 seem linear in comparison. The level of mobility is also a big departure. In terms of vertical freedom the only series that comes close is the Batman Arkham series, and that's it a single, smaller city. Then there's the physics engine, which is far more advanced than any other open world game's physics. And that makes experimenting more enjoyable. Other open world games give you the freedom to 'go anywhere' or to choose any class or to goof off instead of doing the main quest. But no game has offered the kind or level of freedom BOTW offers. No game comes close. While I get what you mean I just feel, and this might very well be because I havent played it enough yet, games like Skyrim offers you more/varied options when it comes to how develop your chracter. Sure Link has skills and can get various hearts/stamina/equipment upgrades but at the end of the day he is still Link. Which makes complete sense because this is a Legend of Zelda game but it is something I think is different from something like Skyrim. That being said I think I will end up liking this game better just because it has a feeling to it I dont think the other games mentioned have. Part of that is the open world element as you mentioned. Although I still dont think its one of my favorite games ever. But thats more to do with me being a bigger Shooter fans then any thing to do with this game. |
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Post by sunofdarkchild on May 21, 2017 4:13:17 GMT -5
If you prefer other genres that's fine. I think Skyward Sword is still my favorite Zelda because of the better combat, controls, dungeons, and story, even with all the other improvements BOTW makes. I just think that comparing it to other games in the same genre it really stands above.
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bor
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Post by bor on May 21, 2017 10:52:53 GMT -5
If you prefer other genres that's fine. I think Skyward Sword is still my favorite Zelda because of the better combat, controls, dungeons, and story, even with all the other improvements BOTW makes. I just think that comparing it to other games in the same genre it really stands above. In terms of the world itself I might agree, but in terms of the options to change the playable character I dont think it noteable better then several other games in the same genre. For those who like to play through these kind of games just to try a radical different character I dont think they will get as much enjoyment out of this game. Even something like The borderland series, which are not the same exact types of games, changes radicaly depending on your choice of character. Here? Not as much. Not to mention a lot of these other games have great multiplayer experience element that Nintendo rarely does. Dont get me wrong I am loving the game, but there are elements that could be better. |
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Post by sunofdarkchild on May 21, 2017 12:25:01 GMT -5
If you prefer other genres that's fine. I think Skyward Sword is still my favorite Zelda because of the better combat, controls, dungeons, and story, even with all the other improvements BOTW makes. I just think that comparing it to other games in the same genre it really stands above. In terms of the world itself I might agree, but in terms of the options to change the playable character I dont think it noteable better then several other games in the same genre. For those who like to play through these kind of games just to try a radical different character I dont think they will get as much enjoyment out of this game. Even something like The borderland series, which are not the same exact types of games, changes radicaly depending on your choice of character. Here? Not as much. Not to mention a lot of these other games have great multiplayer experience element that Nintendo rarely does. Dont get me wrong I am loving the game, but there are elements that could be better. Nintendo are the kings of multiplayer, between Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Splatoon, NSMB, Wii Sports, ect. There's a tradeoff with changing characters like in Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls is a classic case of jack of all trades, master of none. The combat is not just inferior to other games, but is actually lackluster. That's one of the reasons open world games this gen have moved away from that sort of system, like Witcher 3 and Horizon Zero Dawn. Instead they want to give the options to change your playstyle without changing the character. So instead of having to chose the thief or the archer, you can simply play as an archer or use stealth primarily as one of your main abilities from the start. It leads to fewer possible playstyles overall (like the lack of spells in Zelda compared to Elder Scrolls,) but what is there is pulled off much better. I still agree that there are elements that could be better. |
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bor
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Post by bor on May 21, 2017 14:46:08 GMT -5
In terms of the world itself I might agree, but in terms of the options to change the playable character I dont think it noteable better then several other games in the same genre. For those who like to play through these kind of games just to try a radical different character I dont think they will get as much enjoyment out of this game. Even something like The borderland series, which are not the same exact types of games, changes radicaly depending on your choice of character. Here? Not as much. Not to mention a lot of these other games have great multiplayer experience element that Nintendo rarely does. Dont get me wrong I am loving the game, but there are elements that could be better. Nintendo are the kings of multiplayer, between Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Splatoon, NSMB, Wii Sports, ect. There's a tradeoff with changing characters like in Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls is a classic case of jack of all trades, master of none. The combat is not just inferior to other games, but is actually lackluster. That's one of the reasons open world games this gen have moved away from that sort of system, like Witcher 3 and Horizon Zero Dawn. Instead they want to give the options to change your playstyle without changing the character. So instead of having to chose the thief or the archer, you can simply play as an archer or use stealth primarily as one of your main abilities from the start. It leads to fewer possible playstyles overall (like the lack of spells in Zelda compared to Elder Scrolls,) but what is there is pulled off much better. I still agree that there are elements that could be better. King of multiplayer? In specific genres maybe, but overall? Not really. In large part do to their very basic online presence/interface compared to other platforms. All the games you mentioned there are the "pick up and play" style of games. Which is great but still limited compared to both Playstation, Xbox and certaintly not least PC. Nintendo are great "party" games, but online multiplayer is a different animal all together. If you feel Zelda does the "create" a character as well as or better then the others I will have to say I disagree. The mechanics are good, but better then others in its genre? No. But hey lets just agree to disagree. |
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Post by sunofdarkchild on May 21, 2017 16:10:22 GMT -5
Now we're getting somewhere. Before it was just 'multiplayer,' not 'online multiplayer.' Mario Kart and Splatoon have been fine online multiplayer games, and Splatoon is as good an online shooter as they come.
There's no comparison between an actual create a character feature like in Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, or even Fire Emblem, where the character can look however you want, and a game where the character is set from the start, like the Witcher, Horizon, or Zelda. I do think that this is an area where the story of Zelda falls flat. Losing the ability to give Link whatever name you want should have at least come with some personality added to him. But he has less personality [so far, though I beaten 3 divine beasts and gotten the Master Sword] than he had in the last 3 console games when he should have had more. If I had to choose something that needed to be improved in the sequel, it would be the story and characters.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 21, 2017 21:51:58 GMT -5
Link has never had a personality because he's meant to be an avatar. What better way to immerse the player in a character then by giving them choices in how they interact with NPCs and make choices that may or may not impact the story? Should I take this? Should I feign interest in a NPC story? All of it allows you to control how you feel you'd react in said situations rather then arbritary things like classes, names and superficial character customizations. Link is what you choose him to be by his choices. Just like life.
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bor
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Post by bor on May 21, 2017 23:23:49 GMT -5
Now we're getting somewhere. Before it was just 'multiplayer,' not 'online multiplayer.' Mario Kart and Splatoon have been fine online multiplayer games, and Splatoon is as good an online shooter as they come. There's no comparison between an actual create a character feature like in Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, or even Fire Emblem, where the character can look however you want, and a game where the character is set from the start, like the Witcher, Horizon, or Zelda. I do think that this is an area where the story of Zelda falls flat. Losing the ability to give Link whatever name you want should have at least come with some personality added to him. But he has less personality [so far, though I beaten 3 divine beasts and gotten the Master Sword] than he had in the last 3 console games when he should have had more. If I had to choose something that needed to be improved in the sequel, it would be the story and characters. I geuss I should have made that clear, but yes I am specificly talking about online multiplayer since that is the type I play and care about the matority of times I play. But see the two examples you provide there is really nothing compared to the vast amount of titles on other platforms. The Sport game genre alone has such a more well thought out multiplayer experience then anything from Nintendo. In connection with the rest: Thats what I am saying, I think we mostly agree on this. Having the ability to change your playable character is something I like in games like these and I am not alone in that. It makes complete sense why you cant with Link but the option would have been nice. |
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bor
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Post by bor on May 21, 2017 23:25:36 GMT -5
Link has never had a personality because he's meant to be an avatar. What better way to immerse the player in a character then by giving them choices in how they interact with NPCs and make choices that may or may not impact the story? Should I take this? Should I feign interest in a NPC story? All of it allows you to control how you feel you'd react in said situations rather then arbritary things like classes, names and superficial character customizations. Link is what you choose him to be by his choices. Just like life. Atleast he doesnt have the personality he does in the old cartoons. If I had to listen to him saying "excuuuuuse me princess" through the entire game I might just have had to play with out sound. |
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Post by sunofdarkchild on May 22, 2017 2:16:07 GMT -5
Link has never had a personality because he's meant to be an avatar. What better way to immerse the player in a character then by giving them choices in how they interact with NPCs and make choices that may or may not impact the story? Should I take this? Should I feign interest in a NPC story? All of it allows you to control how you feel you'd react in said situations rather then arbritary things like classes, names and superficial character customizations. Link is what you choose him to be by his choices. Just like life. The fact that he was a player avatar was shown in the fact that you could change his name. I always gave Link my name in every game. I was the hero of time. I was the hero of winds. Because of the inclusion of voice acting, that was taken away. But nothing was done to compensate for it. And Link still had much more personality in the Wind Waker and Skyward Sword than he does in Breath of the Wild. Sometimes character customization can be important. Like how I prefer Femshep because she's voiced by Jennifer Hale, or how I feel the story of Fire Emblem Awakening works much better if the created character is female and marries Chrom. If it's just cosmetic or it's in a first person game like how Elder Scrolls s supposed to be played it matters less. |
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bor
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Post by bor on May 22, 2017 2:30:10 GMT -5
Just to make it clear: I love the game and think its one of the best I played in some time. Its amazing how much Zelda has changed over the years. My first game was Links awakening for the Game boy and although I will always love that game its really no competition on which is the more enjoyable of the two for me.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 22, 2017 8:39:12 GMT -5
Link has never had a personality because he's meant to be an avatar. What better way to immerse the player in a character then by giving them choices in how they interact with NPCs and make choices that may or may not impact the story? Should I take this? Should I feign interest in a NPC story? All of it allows you to control how you feel you'd react in said situations rather then arbritary things like classes, names and superficial character customizations. Link is what you choose him to be by his choices. Just like life. The fact that he was a player avatar was shown in the fact that you could change his name. I always gave Link my name in every game. I was the hero of time. I was the hero of winds. Because of the inclusion of voice acting, that was taken away. But nothing was done to compensate for it. And Link still had much more personality in the Wind Waker and Skyward Sword than he does in Breath of the Wild. Sometimes character customization can be important. Like how I prefer Femshep because she's voiced by Jennifer Hale, or how I feel the story of Fire Emblem Awakening works much better if the created character is female and marries Chrom. If it's just cosmetic or it's in a first person game like how Elder Scrolls s supposed to be played it matters less. I've never really tried to place myself in games. Or at least as the protagonist. So I've never felt the need for the character customization to cater to that. There's nothing wrong with and people that do but themselves in the protagonist's shoes, I just prefer to be an observer of the games I play. It's why I never got the aversion people had with Link being a girl or having the option for Link to be a him/her when it was said that might be a route BotW was going to take. Link still hasn't spoken as far as I have played. And the fact that the choices given to him and how respond to those as the player still allows him to be however the player wants. I see the how aesthetic add to that, but those choices existing or not, don't usually tip the scale on whether I like the game. I think Link is still a pretty clean slate for the player to mold how they'd like. I mean yeah, in Zelda games, Link's always going to be the hero and always for Zelda. They'll always be a Ganon of some kind. Those aspects no, aren't going to be like Mass Effect of FE. But we have the future of gaming a head of us, and characters like Peach developed into the Mario Universe as very much her own character and not just a captive of Bowser, maybe some day Zelda games will take a turn and let Link and Zelda develop on their own, not exclusively together. |
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Post by impulse on May 22, 2017 13:42:35 GMT -5
Very interesting discussion. I agree that BotW has a very polished physics engine, very open world, lots of freedom, sure, but those alone, while great, do not necessarily make the game better than everything else. There's also a ton of freedom exploration in the Grand Theft Auto series, but I digress.  The world and exploration are great, but just like the story you start to eventually realize it's very simplistic. Maybe a little too simple. The combat is very simple, too. The same basic fights with the same basic enemies over and over and over. Most of what you can discover are shrines..the same shrines with different twists over and over and over. Most of the NPCs/side quest givers have cringe-worthy dialog, and the way the game uses monosyllabic noises in place of actual recorded dialogue makes for some rather awkward interactions with shopkeepers. I agree BotW is a great game, and from the perspective of being a polished, smooth, well-implemented game, it's top-notch, but those traits alone aren't what people are necessarily going to evaluate an open-world adventure/RPG type game on. Oblivion (and most Bethesda games) was buggier than a bayou at dusk in Louisiana and the combat was atrocious, but the complex magic, crafting, alchemy and other systems drew me in. The crafting magical items and creating spells was so much fun. The lore, while a bit of a chore or a bore at times, was available so you could really get deep into the fictional world. BotW was hands-down better implemented, and Oblivion was flawed as heck, but there are quite a few things in Oblivion I liked better. In short, I agree BotW is a great game, but I think it's inaccurate to say it is definitively better in all ways than its competitors. P.S. Nintendo is the king of multiplayer? Pleeeeaaaase.  Though they are very good, too. |
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Though they are very good, too.