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Post by spoon on Mar 18, 2016 22:23:24 GMT -5
Agreed on the passion and enthusiasm bit. I was in YHAPA, the Young Heroes APA*, when Liefeld was a member, before he broke into the pros. He ran preliminary sketches and sample pages of an early version of Youngblood through. IIRC, they were all different characters; none of them made it to the Image version. And they were all X-Men/Titans knockoffs. But he was having a great time, doing the kind of comics he was a fan of. (of which he was a fan.) I'm still not a big fan of his work, but you gotta give him credit for making a pretty good living doing stuff he loves. *If you don't know what an APA was, go ahead and google it. After you get off my lawn. Do you realize how extremely common the acronym APA is? Don't want to get into an involved research project. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 22:56:54 GMT -5
Amateur Press Associations are described here. I actually belonged to 4 of the ones listed. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 2:01:35 GMT -5
That artwork is pretty surreal. Looks like Liefeld has improved. Seems about average for what I see on mainstream or licensed comics online. But that colorist is adding some creepy textures that seem like they'd be more fitting with Corben work. Overall it's interesting. Reminds me of late 80's / early 90's experimental Marvel stuff.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Mar 19, 2016 6:33:07 GMT -5
truedat, the colorist is a genius and kinda makes it look like some Rick Remender comic!
But what amazes me most in those few exemples is... not a single obvious eye-beeding perspective error! Not even in the swords or guns handle, Liefelds traditionnal weakest point, even more so then with feet!
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Post by Batflunkie on Mar 19, 2016 8:40:02 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous Liefeld gets any credit for Deadpool? Rob is just a very perplexing individual. Given time, I think he could have become a great artist, but he got too popular way too fast for his own good. From what I've heard, he's a nice, down to earth guy, but then I see posts of him on twitter badmouthing Valiant saying that they'll "never last" |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2016 8:44:02 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous Liefeld gets any credit for Deadpool? Rob is just a very perplexing individual. Given time, I think he could have become a great artist, but he got too popular way too fast for his own good. From what I've heard, he's a nice, down to earth guy, but then I see posts of him on twitter badmouthing Valiant saying that they'll "never last" I meant less to comment on him as an individual and more to indicate that all he did for Deadpool was create a generic name and costume for a generic villain. None of Deadpool's current success has anything to do with his contributions. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 11:51:48 GMT -5
Rob is just a very perplexing individual. Given time, I think he could have become a great artist, but he got too popular way too fast for his own good. From what I've heard, he's a nice, down to earth guy, but then I see posts of him on twitter badmouthing Valiant saying that they'll "never last" I meant less to comment on him as an individual and more to indicate that all he did for Deadpool was create a generic name and costume for a generic villain. None of Deadpool's current success has anything to do with his contributions. Were Liefeld's contributions to Deadpool any less than say Bob Kane's contributions to Batman? How much of Batman's current success has anything to do with Kane's contributions? That's the nature of the beast with characters that are corporately controlled, they get developed into things beyond the parameters of the original creation by many diverse hands-but none of that happens without the genesis of the character name and (eventual) brand to develop. Liefeld did what comic creators have been doing since the 30s-no more, no less. And what happened with the development of Deadpool is the same that has happened with comic characters since the 40s. They develop and change over time, gaining or losing popularity in the process. -M |
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2016 12:02:43 GMT -5
I meant less to comment on him as an individual and more to indicate that all he did for Deadpool was create a generic name and costume for a generic villain. None of Deadpool's current success has anything to do with his contributions. Were Liefeld's contributions to Deadpool any less than say Bob Kane's contributions to Batman? Have you ever known me to praise Bob Kane? Still, there is a difference. I don't praise Bob Kane because I know credit goes largely to Bill Finger. From his first appearance, Batman had a reasonable resemblance to the popular character he is today. Visuals aside, that is not the case for Deadpool. What people love about Deadpool has nothing to do with anything Liefeld did. In contrast, You can trace much of Batman's allure back to Finger. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 12:46:13 GMT -5
Were Liefeld's contributions to Deadpool any less than say Bob Kane's contributions to Batman? Have you ever known me to praise Bob Kane? Still, there is a difference. I don't praise Bob Kane because I know credit goes largely to Bill Finger. From his first appearance, Batman had a reasonable resemblance to the popular character he is today. Visuals aside, that is not the case for Deadpool. What people love about Deadpool has nothing to do with anything Liefeld did. In contrast, You can trace much of Batman's allure back to Finger. See I think the current Batman personality and its popularity and the conception of Batman as an infallible "bad-ass" with a million gadgets for every situation at his disposal that drives the current popularity has as little to do with the Finger/Kane portrayal of Batman of Batman as an earnest but very fallible man trying to be a crimefighter but often over his head relying mostly on fists and losing more fights than he won and often in need of rescue as the current jokester Deadpool does with the the generic assassin Deadpool in the early Liefeld appearances. The trappings of Batman then and now may be somewhat similar, but the obsessed, vengeance-driven, creature of the night that Batman has become is a different character than the Golden Age Batman of the 40s. Over the years Batman has been whatever the creators/editors needed/wanted him to be, often based on what they thought would sell, so there have been many faces of Batman depending on the times/whims of the people creating him, all facets of the template Finger created but some not being recognizable to that template at all, and I see the same thing with Superman, Spider-Man, Deadpool, etc. etc. Sometimes they go back to the well and try to recpature the original feel, other times they stray far form it, depending on the zeitgeist of the time. It's the very nature of a character under the auspices of editorial rather than sole-creator control. -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2016 14:20:20 GMT -5
Have you ever known me to praise Bob Kane? Still, there is a difference. I don't praise Bob Kane because I know credit goes largely to Bill Finger. From his first appearance, Batman had a reasonable resemblance to the popular character he is today. Visuals aside, that is not the case for Deadpool. What people love about Deadpool has nothing to do with anything Liefeld did. In contrast, You can trace much of Batman's allure back to Finger. See I think the current Batman personality and its popularity and the conception of Batman as an infallible "bad-ass" with a million gadgets for every situation at his disposal that drives the current popularity has as little to do with the Finger/Kane portrayal of Batman of Batman as an earnest but very fallible man trying to be a crimefighter but often over his head relying mostly on fists and losing more fights than he won and often in need of rescue as the current jokester Deadpool does with the the generic assassin Deadpool in the early Liefeld appearances. The trappings of Batman then and now may be somewhat similar, but the obsessed, vengeance-driven, creature of the night that Batman has become is a different character than the Golden Age Batman of the 40s. Over the years Batman has been whatever the creators/editors needed/wanted him to be, often based on what they thought would sell, so there have been many faces of Batman depending on the times/whims of the people creating him, all facets of the template Finger created but some not being recognizable to that template at all, and I see the same thing with Superman, Spider-Man, Deadpool, etc. etc. Sometimes they go back to the well and try to recpature the original feel, other times they stray far form it, depending on the zeitgeist of the time. It's the very nature of a character under the auspices of editorial rather than sole-creator control. -M Sometimes, my good friend, I feel like you just argue to argue. First, there are many aspects/interpretations/incarnations of Batman that people love, from the Frank Miller version you describe to the Bruce Timm version, the Christopher Nolan version, the Olan Soule animated version, and even Adam West. Second, no matter which version you choose, it still has more in common with the character that appeared in Detective #27 than the wise-cracking, fourth-wall breaking Deadpool has with the character that first appeared in New Mutants #98 that was intended to be nothing more than a bad-ass. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 19, 2016 17:38:34 GMT -5
truedat, the colorist is a genius and kinda makes it look like some Rick Remender comic! But what amazes me most in those few exemples is... not a single obvious eye-beeding perspective error! Not even in the swords or guns handle, Liefelds traditionnal weakest point, even more so then with feet! Well, the forced perspective on the gun (far right) is a bit off, and it seems to be unpractically tall and narrow... but yeah, this is not bad at all! |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 19, 2016 20:19:18 GMT -5
See I think the current Batman personality and its popularity and the conception of Batman as an infallible "bad-ass" with a million gadgets for every situation at his disposal that drives the current popularity has as little to do with the Finger/Kane portrayal of Batman of Batman as an earnest but very fallible man trying to be a crimefighter but often over his head relying mostly on fists and losing more fights than he won and often in need of rescue as the current jokester Deadpool does with the the generic assassin Deadpool in the early Liefeld appearances. The trappings of Batman then and now may be somewhat similar, but the obsessed, vengeance-driven, creature of the night that Batman has become is a different character than the Golden Age Batman of the 40s. Over the years Batman has been whatever the creators/editors needed/wanted him to be, often based on what they thought would sell, so there have been many faces of Batman depending on the times/whims of the people creating him, all facets of the template Finger created but some not being recognizable to that template at all, and I see the same thing with Superman, Spider-Man, Deadpool, etc. etc. Sometimes they go back to the well and try to recpature the original feel, other times they stray far form it, depending on the zeitgeist of the time. It's the very nature of a character under the auspices of editorial rather than sole-creator control. -M
Oh yeah. For sure.  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 19, 2016 20:20:47 GMT -5
if Liefeld is Bob Kane, who is Bill Finger in this example?
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Post by Gene on Mar 19, 2016 20:29:11 GMT -5
if Liefeld is Bob Kane, who is Bill Finger in this example? The army of my inkers that make him semi-readable? I kid. I kid. It would probably be a combination of Waid, Nicieza, and especially Kelly. Each had the opportunity early on to write the character free from Liefeld's influence and build up the character into the one that people eventually responded to. |
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Post by shaxper on Mar 19, 2016 21:09:53 GMT -5
Sometimes, my good friend, I feel like you just argue to argue.
Oh yeah. For sure. Oh, let's not be mean, now. I was not trying to put mrp down. |
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