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Post by crazyoldhermit on Apr 7, 2016 2:40:37 GMT -5
Aside from having crummy movies, that is.
The character has always appealed to me. The design is hands down the coolest thing in comic book history, and the concept of Evel Knievel selling his soul to Satan and becoming a firey spectre of Hell is pretty awesome, but is Ghost Rider actually any good?
Despite my attraction towards the character I've never read any Ghost Rider stories and I couldn't tell you a thing about who Johnny Blaze is as a person. Who is Johnny Blaze? Thats something I'm really wondering but nowhere I've seen actually describes Johnny's personality, it just goes on about how his heads on fire. What kind of hero is he? Is the vintage stuff worth checking out?
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Apr 7, 2016 3:14:25 GMT -5
I've read some vintage stuff, it was lame. I've read some 90ies stuff, it was super lame, I've read some of Jason Aaron's stuff, it was ok. The only Ghost Rider stuff I ever read I liked was the two Garth Ennis minis, cool stuff, even with quite debatable artwork. Oh, and I liked it when Sam Keith drew him in Marvel Comics Presents (but the story was lame)...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 7, 2016 5:50:21 GMT -5
Aside from having crummy movies, that is. The character has always appealed to me. The design is hands down the coolest thing in comic book history, and the concept of Evel Knievel selling his soul to Satan and becoming a firey spectre of Hell is pretty awesome, but is Ghost Rider actually any good? Despite my attraction towards the character I've never read any Ghost Rider stories and I couldn't tell you a thing about who Johnny Blaze is as a person. Who is Johnny Blaze? Thats something I'm really wondering but nowhere I've seen actually describes Johnny's personality, it just goes on about how his heads on fire. What kind of hero is he? Is the vintage stuff worth checking out? The very first run had pretty good moments. I loved the Ploog early issues, and the initial relation between Johnny Blaze and Satan. One of the runs I remembered the most fondly is the one in which Jesus himself appears (in all but name), a run that Jim Shooter retconned away as soon as he could. I'm not a Christian, but come on... if you're going to use the Judaeo-Christian Satan in your stories, you kind of have to use God and Jesus as well, even if they don't play an active role in the comic. Having Jesus appear and tell Blaze not to despair was respectful and in character, and it made for a great story. (Hey, if you really need a Deux ex machina, might as well go to the source!) For my part, I think the book suffered from having Don Perlin draw so many issues. Don just wasn't an exciting penciller, and this kind of book needed someone flamboyant. Replacing Satan, the actual devil, by other demonic lame ducks also hurt the interest in the book -same as Daimon Hellstrom, really. Satan is a character we kind of know we can't defeat without help from on high, and the feeling of fighting a hopeless battle always added a little something to the adventures of GR or Hellstrom. But replacing Old Nick by Mephisto, Marduk or Zwxgfhdaw takes all the fun out of it... they just become super-villains. Oh, and the whole Zarathos concept (bleep)s mightily. I liked Ghost Rider just being Johnny. Overall, I would probably not recommend paying ten bucks a pop for the original Ghost Rider run, but I'd certainly go for an Essential. The book was fun.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 7, 2016 8:25:53 GMT -5
I read quite a few Ghost Rider stories back in the day and have zero memory of any of them. Seems like he's the kind of character that only could have prospered in the 1990s, where visuals mattered far more than content (heck, we got a company called "Image" out of it). I much preferred Deathlok, which came into mass popularity at the same time for the same reason but actually contained a compelling character and story.
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Post by String on Apr 7, 2016 9:30:10 GMT -5
Oh, and the whole Zarathos concept (bleep)s mightily. I liked Ghost Rider just being Johnny. There's something to the initial idea of simply cursing Johnny with supernatural powers but by adding the Zarathos concept, they could then develop new dramatic themes in a similar vein as the Hulk; two warring personalities, both want their essential freedom yet have to continually work together, and both may share more similar personality traits that either would care to admit. I came in late on Ghost Rider, around the #60s-70s issues and read it till it ended. Loved it, such a cool concept, such a striking visual image, themes of justice vs vengeance, and the personality conflicts involved. I also enjoyed the 90s relaunch. Mackie and Texeria got off to a strong start with Danny Ketch. You wouldn't think it'd be possible to improve on the original visual image but man, if Tex didn't succeed in doing it. His art was a huge reason I think for the title's initial success. I have really fond memories of Midnight Sons. The teaming up, lead by Ketch and Blaze, the threat posed by Lilith, the various titles linking up, yeah it was wrapped up in the 90s craze of polybags, free posters, and variant covers but it was still fun. Afterwards though, I drifted away. Ketch's storyline became convoluted and I lost track of it. I can't recall if it was Aaron or Way who had the big reveal of the Rider's real purpose and identity, an interesting idea but I have yet to read it. Still, Ghost Rider remains one of my favorite all-time characters.
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 7, 2016 9:46:57 GMT -5
I really liked the original run, particularly the early 80s stuff, but I thought the 90s revival was awful, not least because they replaced Johnny Blaze-a well established character wih an interesting backstory-with the obnoxious and largely forgettable Danny Ketch.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 7, 2016 10:02:52 GMT -5
I really liked the original run, particularly the early 80s stuff, but I thought the 90s revival was awful, not least because they replaced Johnny Blaze-a well established character wih an interesting backstory-with the obnoxious and largely forgettable Danny Ketch. I could have accepted Danny Ketch, I suppose (grudgingly!) and the art by Texeira, as noted by String, was indeed pretty good. What turned me off the series altogether, however, was the mistreatment of Johnny Blaze. If a new GR was required, fine; just curse Danny Ketch and proceed from there. Blaze, for his part, had been sent to his happily ever after at the end of the first series; considering what he had gone through, it was well deserved. But of course, Marvel couldn't leave well enough alone; in a typical and absolutely unoriginal move, it was decided to ruin the character. Here's a brand new idea: let's kill his wife and kids! Nothing makes a character as interesting as getting rid of his family! Oh, and give him a hellfire-shooting shotgun too. But let's not stop there! These are the '90s, let's make him a demonic cyborg, yeah, that's the ticket! And while we're at it let's resurrect his wife and give her superpowers as well! Might as well marry her to someone else too, while we're at it. So cool! So rad! So extreme! Gah. Vertigo it wasn't, lemme tell ya!!!
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 7, 2016 10:20:54 GMT -5
I really liked the original run, particularly the early 80s stuff, but I thought the 90s revival was awful, not least because they replaced Johnny Blaze-a well established character wih an interesting backstory-with the obnoxious and largely forgettable Danny Ketch. I could have accepted Danny Ketch, I suppose (grudgingly!) and the art by Texeira, as noted by String, was indeed pretty good. What turned me off the series altogether, however, was the mistreatment of Johnny Blaze. If a new GR was required, fine; just curse Danny Ketch and proceed from there. Blaze, for his part, had been sent to his happily ever after at the end of the first series; considering what he had gone through, it was well deserved. But of course, Marvel couldn't leave well enough alone; in a typical and absolutely unoriginal move, it was decided to ruin the character. Here's a brand new idea: let's kill his wife and kids! Nothing makes a character as interesting as getting rid of his family! Oh, and give him a hellfire-shooting shotgun too. But let's not stop there! These are the '90s, let's make him a demonic cyborg, yeah, that's the ticket! And while we're at it let's resurrect his wife and give her superpowers as well! Might as well marry her to someone else too, while we're at it. So cool! So rad! So extreme! Gah. Vertigo it wasn't, lemme tell ya!!! It definitely wasn't Vertigo, but like vertigo, it was enough to make me nauseous...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 7, 2016 10:24:43 GMT -5
I could have accepted Danny Ketch, I suppose (grudgingly!) and the art by Texeira, as noted by String, was indeed pretty good. What turned me off the series altogether, however, was the mistreatment of Johnny Blaze. If a new GR was required, fine; just curse Danny Ketch and proceed from there. Blaze, for his part, had been sent to his happily ever after at the end of the first series; considering what he had gone through, it was well deserved. But of course, Marvel couldn't leave well enough alone; in a typical and absolutely unoriginal move, it was decided to ruin the character. Here's a brand new idea: let's kill his wife and kids! Nothing makes a character as interesting as getting rid of his family! Oh, and give him a hellfire-shooting shotgun too. But let's not stop there! These are the '90s, let's make him a demonic cyborg, yeah, that's the ticket! And while we're at it let's resurrect his wife and give her superpowers as well! Might as well marry her to someone else too, while we're at it. So cool! So rad! So extreme! Gah. Vertigo it wasn't, lemme tell ya!!! It definitely wasn't Vertigo, but like vertigo, it was enough to make me nauseous... You don't like Vertigo???
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 7, 2016 10:39:02 GMT -5
Oh, I thought you meant the real Ghost Rider! (Thank you, Frank Frazetta!)
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 7, 2016 10:47:33 GMT -5
Speaking of Ghost Rider, how do you folks feel about Spawn? Because it was initially pitched (or so I've heard) as Ghost Rider, but with deeper lore
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 7, 2016 10:52:30 GMT -5
A great song that allows for multiple interpretations.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Apr 7, 2016 10:55:28 GMT -5
Speaking of Ghost Rider, how do you folks feel about Spawn? Because it was initially pitched (or so I've heard) as Ghost Rider, but with deeper lore This probably is for another topic, but to answer your question, I really liked Spawn The Undead back then, even if I hated the art. But Paul Jenkins' stories were quite ambitious for a comic book aimed at young readers. I also liked some Hellspawn by Bendis and Ashley Wood, and the Medieval Spawn/Witchblade crossover as well as the Sam and Twich mini. Beyond that, it all seemed quite terrible to me. Maybe David Hine's run was good, but I never read it.
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 7, 2016 11:21:03 GMT -5
It definitely wasn't Vertigo, but like vertigo, it was enough to make me nauseous... You don't like Vertigo??? Reread what I wrote, Raider. The clue is in the capitalization...(sorry, I like playing with words)
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Apr 7, 2016 11:30:39 GMT -5
I really liked the original run, particularly the early 80s stuff, Yes, this era was the best Ghost Rider stuff in my opinion. Around #63 or so (going by memory here) Johnny Blaze joined the circus. I thought from that point until the end of the series with #81, the stories were very strong.
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