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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 8, 2016 6:49:16 GMT -5
I read through the Dark Horse Grendel omnibi last year, and for the most part really enjoyed them, though it's worth noting they didn't include the very first Hunter Rose series. I have to admit though, while I did enjoy the various experimental styles Wagner used throughout the series, I was a bit relieved when I got to "God and the Devil" and, a little later on, "War Child" - stories written more like regular comics, thank goodness! IIRC some of the original art was lost back when Comico went under.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2016 11:27:27 GMT -5
I read through the Dark Horse Grendel omnibi last year, and for the most part really enjoyed them, though it's worth noting they didn't include the very first Hunter Rose series. I have to admit though, while I did enjoy the various experimental styles Wagner used throughout the series, I was a bit relieved when I got to "God and the Devil" and, a little later on, "War Child" - stories written more like regular comics, thank goodness! I've determined my own re-reading order for Grendel that tends to give me maximum impact. I start with Devil by the Deed as its treatment of Hunter Rose and his story arc as revered mythology is an amazing introduction to the series. I then backtrack to the original series, which has more impact after Devil by the Deed has built it up to such a height. By reading the original series, you get the "true" story, even if it's less tight and polished. I then fast forward to the other Hunter Rose stories in the Grendel Omnibus, bypassing Christine Spar and Brian Li Sung.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Apr 8, 2016 11:31:21 GMT -5
I read through the Dark Horse Grendel omnibi last year, and for the most part really enjoyed them, though it's worth noting they didn't include the very first Hunter Rose series. I have to admit though, while I did enjoy the various experimental styles Wagner used throughout the series, I was a bit relieved when I got to "God and the Devil" and, a little later on, "War Child" - stories written more like regular comics, thank goodness! I've determined my own re-reading order for Grendel that tends to give me maximum impact. I start with Devil by the Deed as its treatment of Hunter Rose and his story arc as revered mythology is an amazing introduction to the series. I then backtrack to the original series, which has more impact after Devil by the Deed has built it up to such a height. By reading the original series, you get the "true" story, even if it's less tight and polished. I then fast forward to the other Hunter Rose stories in the Grendel Omnibus, bypassing Christine Spar and Brian Li Sung. But Have you read War Child?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2016 11:32:14 GMT -5
I've determined my own re-reading order for Grendel that tends to give me maximum impact. I start with Devil by the Deed as its treatment of Hunter Rose and his story arc as revered mythology is an amazing introduction to the series. I then backtrack to the original series, which has more impact after Devil by the Deed has built it up to such a height. By reading the original series, you get the "true" story, even if it's less tight and polished. I then fast forward to the other Hunter Rose stories in the Grendel Omnibus, bypassing Christine Spar and Brian Li Sung. But Have you read War Child? If it's not in the Omnibus, then no, I have not. What am I missing?
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Apr 8, 2016 11:38:08 GMT -5
I have no clue what's in the omnibus. But it is in my opinion the most enjoyable Grendel story of the bunch, granted I haven't yet read them all, but close to. And it doesn't feature Hunter Rose at all as it is I believe the one occuring the furthest in the future of them all.
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 8, 2016 12:12:19 GMT -5
Dizzy great write up, thank you for sharing that.
I updated the FAQ with a quick guide as to what will be covered as well as the other Grendel's that are out there.
Thank you all for your input!
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 8, 2016 12:18:30 GMT -5
I have no clue what's in the omnibus. But it is in my opinion the most enjoyable Grendel story of the bunch, granted I haven't yet read them all, but close to. And it doesn't feature Hunter Rose at all as it is I believe the one occuring the furthest in the future of them all. Grendel Omnibus Volume 1 is all Hunter Rose stuff, from Devil By The Deed to Behold The Devil. It does not include the earliest Comico Primer or three issue mini-series, Batman Grendel I or the latest Grendel vs. The Shadow. The Omnibus I believe you are referring to would be Grendel Omnibus Volume 4: Prime, which covers War Child, Devil Quest and Past Prime.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2016 12:22:35 GMT -5
I have no clue what's in the omnibus. But it is in my opinion the most enjoyable Grendel story of the bunch, granted I haven't yet read them all, but close to. And it doesn't feature Hunter Rose at all as it is I believe the one occuring the furthest in the future of them all. I will have to seek it out.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2016 12:25:25 GMT -5
Who are the other Grendels, and where do they appear?
Stacy Palumbo: Devil Child #1-2 Christine Spar, daughter of Stacy Palumbo (and Rose's adopted daughter): Grendel (1st series) #1-12 - aka Devil's Legacy Brian Li Sung: Grendel (1st series) #13-15 aka The Devil Inside Eppy Thatcher: Grendel (1st series) #24-33 aka God and the Devil Orion Assante: Grendel (1st series) #34-40 aka Devil's Reign Grendel Prime: Grendel War Child #1-10, Devil Quest, Batman Grendel II, Grendel Past Prime Petrus Christus: Grendel Tales - The Devil's Hammer #1-3 Jonah: Grendel Tales - The Devil In Our Midst #1-5 Drago: Grendel Tales - Devils and Deaths #1-2 Goran: Grendel Tales - Devil's Choices #1-4 The Grendel Gang - Grendel Tales - The Devil May Care #1-5 Aaron Crow: Grendel Tales - The Devil's Apprentice #1-3
Other:
Captain Wiggins tells tales about Hunter Rose's Grendel: Grendel (1st series) #16-19 The Incubation Years: Grendel (1st series) #20-23 The Skull of Hunter Rose/Grendel Clans/Four Grendels: Grendel Tales - Four Devils, One Hell #1-6
This is awesome information that I didn't have and wasn't able to find prior to now. Thanks for this!! And, now that I know that the last issue I read before giving up on Grendel was also Brian Li Sung's penultimate issue, I just might go back and try the rest of the series!
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Post by String on Apr 8, 2016 18:34:22 GMT -5
GREAT idea for a review thread!
Love Grendel, love Mage, love Wagner.
While not every Grendel may not be to everyone's liking, I give huge credit to Wagner for willing to push the boundaries of both the concept and the medium. Hunter Rose is indeed my favorite and I do love that Wagner has re-visited him here in later years. But I also liked Christine, who through her mother Stacy, became entangled in a tragic family-like curse. (The Pander Bros. art at the time was so experimental to me, unlike any other I'd really seen at that time).
Seeing how Christine's obsession and fears affected Brian was equally disturbing. And taking the whole concept worldwide through Eppy and Orion's actions were equally brazen and bold. War Child is a rip-roaring, fantastic joy ride through hell with Grendel Prime. Whenever I read the trade, I end up reading it in a entire day, it's THAT good.
Special mention must also be made of the Grendel Past Prime written by Rucka and illustrated by Wagner. A fantastic novel that picks up where Warchild left off.
My only lapse of late has been that I've yet to read all of the Grendel Tales minis.
But the recent Hunter Rose material has been great. Let us know when you've read all of the Grendel vs Shadow mini. It may sound strange to pair those two characters together but by golly, if Wagner doesn't pull it off with style, wit, flair and great characterization.
Vivat Grendel!
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Post by shaxper on Apr 10, 2016 18:11:07 GMT -5
Well this thread has got me reading Grendel again. I went back to continue the 1986 volume, reading The Captain Wiggins recollections, specifically issues #16 and 17 today. While the story was flawed in many many respects, I love that it continues to portray Hunter Rose in a mythic light. The tone was spot-on and brilliant in that respect. I wonder if Denny O'Neil's insistence that Batman be treated as an urban myth around this time was because he was inspired by Grendel.
My one real regret with this story is that Grendel gets duped into serving as someone else's pawn and never even realizes this after the fact. Would have loved some little nod or clue at the end that Grendel knew he was being set up and ultimately got his revenge on the person who did it, but still had to go through the motions of enacting revenge against the wrong person because the issue had been so high-profile. Grendel needed to go through with it in order to maintain people's fear and respect for him.
or something.
Looking forward to reading more!
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 10, 2016 23:06:20 GMT -5
Glad this has inspired you guys to read more Grendel, whichever version that may be.
I had been itching to do some review threads of characters I love, so I began with a favorite.
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Post by earl on Apr 11, 2016 0:12:20 GMT -5
The Grendel/Batman series from what I recall from an interview with Matt Wagner are considered a part of the series.
I can see the flaws in Grendel now that I might not have appreciated back in the 80s, but it was really daring for Matt Wagner to go for it in the way he did with the character in those days. Wagner probably could have played the game with DC and Marvel much more than he did, but he really worked on his own character and series.
I'd have to figure Wagner's success with Grendel along with others had to be something that led someone like Mike Mignola to go the way he did with Hellboy.
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 12, 2016 12:04:08 GMT -5
Grendel #1 (March, 1983)
Synopsis: Once again we have Grendel conversing with Argent, this time atop a building in New York. Grendel nonchalantly removes his mask and reveals he is the famous author Hunter Rose, and is surprised that Argent knows of the author and has even read his books. Rose ends up revealing even more to his enemy, in what is to become his first origin story. We learn that his real name is Eddie, and he grew up as an emotionally disturbed young boy who excelled in school. He hated team sports, but found a love for fencing, in which he won the World Championship held in London at just 14 years old. There he was seduced by a 36-year old woman named Jocosta Rose aka Jackie, a trainer for the British team. The two fell in love, and over a year's span Jackie taught Eddie everything about "the Game", the ultimate competition against fate. Unfortunately for Jackie, her fate proved to be a terminal illness, and dies shortly after. Destroyed, Eddie returned home to the states, where he embraces the darker side of New York's criminal element. It is there that he decides to become Grendel, choosing the name, the costume and the forks due to their demonic meanings. He also begins writing and chooses Hunter Rose as his pen name. As Grendel, he kills a hitman in front of crime boss Ciccone to prove his worth as an assassin and is hired on the spot. After a hit, Grendel returns to Ciccone's office only to realize he has been setup. Grendel is ambushed but is able to fend for himself against Ciccone's hitmen, and ends up taking over Ciccone's crime organization in the process. In doing so, Grendel needed to clean up some of the mob's horrible ventures such as the child prostitution ring, which he explains to Argent is why Everett Christie had to die in Comico Primer #2. When Argent disgrees with that decision, Rose calmly reminds him that he has killed 42 of Grendel's henchmen. "Who are you?", asks Grendel as the issue comes to a close.
Comments: Grendel and Argent. They should be mortal enemies, but here they are, conversing almost as if they were friends. There is a sense to how unstable and lonely Grendel is in inviting his enemy over for a chat, and not only revealing who he is but also telling his life story. While Argent remains cold, he seems to understand Rose's plight and listens intently to his story, which is a pretty messed up one at that. We learn that he was a genius, but also had emotional problems and tended to isolate himself. At 14 he was seduced by a much older woman, which may have only added to his instability. She also taught him a way of life that most teens would never comprehend on their own. Then she dies, fueling Eddie's heart with rage and inadequacy. In essence, Jackie planted the seed of Grendel into Eddie, now Hunter Rose. This comic came out only a few months after Grendel's first appearance in Comico Primer #2, and Matt Wagner's artwork is a bit more polished this time around. His writing jumps around a bit, and I would have liked to learn more about Rose's start at writing novels and how the forks came into his possession, etc. But as it is, this is a unique origin story, one that will be retooled a bit in the future. We'll learn more about Argent's backstory in the next issue.
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Post by shaxper on Apr 12, 2016 18:38:17 GMT -5
It's interesting that, while the Grendel/Argent relationship was the absolute center of this original series, it got sidelined a bit in Devil by the Deed. It was still there, but it was less important than the mythic status of Grendel and his all too human relationship with Stacy.
I can't wait until you get to Grendel and Argent's rooftop discussion. That was the absolute highlight of the first volume for me.
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